thereselittleflower Posted July 20, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 20, 2015 Littleflower, You appear to be operating from the misgiven assumption that EVERYTHING in apocalyptic literature is symbolic, that it contains nothing but symbolism. We are talking about numbers, which in apocalyptic literature, in the apocalyptic genre, are ALWAYS symbolic, as I have already demonstrated. Let's keep it focused to the actual issue of numbers and how to properly interpret "a thousand years." ...Failure to take the highly symbolic character of apocalyptic into account virtually guarantees a misreading of the text. The numbers in Revelation cannot be understood by assigning then real numerical value, not even as round numbers. They are purely symbolic. The Apocalypse: A Reading of the Revelation of John, pg 5-7 By Charles H. Talbert Author: https://www.baylor.edu/mediacommunications/news.php?action=story&story=50286 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 That is an assumption that you make, and it simply is not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted July 20, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 20, 2015 That is an assumption that you make, and it simply is not true. No Shiloh. I have not assumed anything. I have already presented you with authoritative sources which explicitly explain the symbolic nature of numbers in apocalyptic works, as well as what those numbers symbolize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qnts2 Posted July 20, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,875 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 1,336 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted July 20, 2015 Littleflower, You appear to be operating from the misgiven assumption that EVERYTHING in apocalyptic literature is symbolic, that it contains nothing but symbolism. We are talking about numbers, which in apocalyptic literature, in the apocalyptic genre, are ALWAYS symbolic, as I have already demonstrated. Let's keep it focused to the actual issue of numbers and how to properly interpret "a thousand years." ...Failure to take the highly symbolic character of apocalyptic into account virtually guarantees a misreading of the text. The numbers in Revelation cannot be understood by assigning then real numerical value, not even as round numbers. They are purely symbolic. The Apocalypse: A Reading of the Revelation of John, pg 5-7 By Charles H. Talbert Author: https://www.baylor.edu/mediacommunications/news.php?action=story&story=50286 That is one man's opinion. That is it. Just an opinion. Interesting that Talbert was one of the few Protestants accepted by the RCC and having had a position in the RCC. His non-literal position is common in the RCC, and among those who teach replacement theology. Other very distinguished scholars state essentially, what can be taken literally, should be taken literally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted July 20, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 20, 2015 Littleflower, You appear to be operating from the misgiven assumption that EVERYTHING in apocalyptic literature is symbolic, that it contains nothing but symbolism. We are talking about numbers, which in apocalyptic literature, in the apocalyptic genre, are ALWAYS symbolic, as I have already demonstrated. Let's keep it focused to the actual issue of numbers and how to properly interpret "a thousand years." ...Failure to take the highly symbolic character of apocalyptic into account virtually guarantees a misreading of the text. The numbers in Revelation cannot be understood by assigning then real numerical value, not even as round numbers. They are purely symbolic. The Apocalypse: A Reading of the Revelation of John, pg 5-7 By Charles H. Talbert Author: https://www.baylor.edu/mediacommunications/news.php?action=story&story=50286 That is one man's opinion. That is it. Just an opinion. Interesting that Talbert was one of the few Protestants accepted by the RCC and having had a position in the RCC. His non-literal position is common in the RCC, and among those who teach replacement theology. Other very distinguished scholars state essentially, what can be taken literally, should be taken literally. Actually it's not one man's opinion. He is an expert, with a great deal more expertise on this subject than anyone here, and he is one of many experts. And quite frankly, those who choose to ignore this in order to make Revelation say something it actually doesn't say in order to support doctrine they believe, are simply engaging in proof texting - taking these passages out of context, regardless of their credentials. This is a long established, and at the time, very popular genre that spanned hundreds of years in various cultures. There is a great deal of information about it for those who care to seek out the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Anyone who would agree with the Roman Catholic Church doesn't deserve to be called a scholar, much less an expert. Roman Catholic theology is train wreck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted July 20, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 20, 2015 Anyone who would agree with the Roman Catholic Church doesn't deserve to be called a scholar, much less an expert. Roman Catholic theology is train wreck. I appreciate this is your personal opinion. I also appreciate this is only your personal opinion and should be given no more emphasis than that. I also find that resorting to various forms of character assassination, rather than actually dealing with the subject matter, is a very poor way to respond. It's a cheap shot that indicates one has nothing better to offer, and actually is unable to legitimately defend their own position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I am not trying to defend a position at this point. It's just that given the idolatry that characterizes Catholic theology and the poor exegesis that Catholics use, anyone who aligns themselves with Catholicism is simply scraping the bottom of the barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted July 20, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 20, 2015 I am not trying to defend a position at this point. It's just that given the idolatry that characterizes Catholic theology and the poor exegesis that Catholics use, anyone who aligns themselves with Catholicism is simply scraping the bottom of the barrel. No shiloh. It is those who attempt to discredit others in this way who are scraping the bottom of the barrel. It's called killing the messenger instead of dealing with the message. It is truly sad you have nothing better to offer us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Call it what you want, but it is what it is. And I am not "killing the messenger" here anymore than if I were criticizing Jim Jones, Joseph Smith or David Koresh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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