Luke 16:19-31 The Rich Man and Lazarus

[Guest DRS81]

Just because you and shiloh357 are on the same page means it is right?

 

If you don't trust in God's children inside God's Word, then who can you trust.

shiloh357 is one of many on here who has proven himself to be a true man or (woman) of God.

I can easily see this in the fruits of his spirit...so yes I listen to what he has to say.

That doesn't mean we agree with everything, but with the topic of eternal damnation I do agree.

God will place certain people in your path to help you grow and strengthen in the spirit, to bring revelation to us.

Blessings, DRS81.

[missmuffet]

 

 

Actually in literary fact Luke 16:14 is where Jesus Himself ceases from parables and enters into fact based discussion with the Pharisees!

In that context lies the event of Lazarus and the rich man... It is interesting to note that the New American Standard updated and the New King James in the topic headings leave off from calling it a parable! Just a little external evidence the other way Love, Steven

 

Hello Enoob.

 

Do you believe people in hell can see and converse with people outside of hell ?

 

The account said that they could then before Jesus led captivity captive... Now I believe there is

an empty none burning place across a vast gulf that they can see through flame they are in.

 

I am not my friend enoob but no they can not.What do you think enoob?Enoob is it not called hell now but hades?

yes I believe presently hades is where the dead listed as death are kept

Rev 20:14-15

14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire.

This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written

in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

NKJV

 

enoob.I thought that those who were once in Paradise Jesus led to heaven at His resurrection.I am seeing here like it sounds like people are still in paradise while the people in hades can now see them.Are those in hades now just by themselves? Waiting out their period before they come to the Great White Throne Judgment?

[enoob57]

Actually in literary fact Luke 16:14 is where Jesus Himself ceases from parables and enters into fact based discussion with the Pharisees!

In that context lies the event of Lazarus and the rich man... It is interesting to note that the New American Standard updated and the New King James in the topic headings leave off from calling it a parable! Just a little external evidence the other way Love, Steven

 

Hello Enoob.

 

Do you believe people in hell can see and converse with people outside of hell ?

The account said that they could then before Jesus led captivity captive... Now I believe there is

an empty none burning place across a vast gulf that they can see through flame they are in.

 

I am not my friend enoob but no they can not.What do you think enoob?Enoob is it not called hell now but hades?

yes I believe presently hades is where the dead listed as death are kept

Rev 20:14-15

14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire.

This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written

in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

NKJV

enoob.I thought that those who were once in Paradise Jesus led to heaven at His resurrection.I am seeing here like it sounds like people are still in paradise while the people in hades can now see them.Are those in hades now just by themselves? Waiting out their period before they come to the Great White Throne Judgment?

yes that is what I have written above to ninhao and other specific to you...

[enoob57]

As far as parable or not here is what I believe is good evidence of historicity:

https://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/the-rich-man-and-lazarus-luke-1619-31/

[missmuffet]

 

 

 

 

Actually in literary fact Luke 16:14 is where Jesus Himself ceases from parables and enters into fact based discussion with the Pharisees!

In that context lies the event of Lazarus and the rich man... It is interesting to note that the New American Standard updated and the New King James in the topic headings leave off from calling it a parable! Just a little external evidence the other way Love, Steven

 

Hello Enoob.

 

Do you believe people in hell can see and converse with people outside of hell ?

 

The account said that they could then before Jesus led captivity captive... Now I believe there is

an empty none burning place across a vast gulf that they can see through flame they are in.

 

I am not my friend enoob but no they can not.What do you think enoob?Enoob is it not called hell now but hades?

yes I believe presently hades is where the dead listed as death are kept

Rev 20:14-15

14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire.

This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written

in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

NKJV

 

enoob.I thought that those who were once in Paradise Jesus led to heaven at His resurrection.I am seeing here like it sounds like people are still in paradise while the people in hades can now see them.Are those in hades now just by themselves? Waiting out their period before they come to the Great White Throne Judgment?

 

yes that is what I have written above to ninhao and other specific to you...

 

Thanks for clarifying that for me

[missmuffet]

As far as parable or not here is what I believe is good evidence of historicity:

https://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/the-rich-man-and-lazarus-luke-1619-31/

Interesting.I know their is a debate among Bible scholars if this is a parable or a true story.

[Guest DRS81]

 

• Abraham's bosom is not heaven (Hebrews 11:8-10, 16)
• People in hell can't talk to those in heaven (Isaiah 65: 17)
• The dead are in their graves (Job 17:13; John 5:28, 29). The rich man was in bodily form with eyes, a tongue, etc., yet we know that the body does not go to hell at death. It is very obvious that the body remains in the grave, as the Bible says. If you'd like to know more about what happens after you die visit The Truth About Death website

 

This is where it gets weird...

 

1. I believe Abraham's bosom is heaven. Why? Because the opposite of heaven is hell and scripture specifically says hell in Luke 16:23.

2. This is true, people in hell can't talk to those in heaven, but that's not what scripture is trying to get a cross. There's a deeeeeper meaning to it, as in the hardening of hearts of nonbelievers on earth.

3. Again, go back to #2. There's a deeper meaning. It is true that our bodies rest in graves, but again there is a deeper meaning behind this story and that's the hardening of hearts on earth.

 

The lesson if you caught it is mostly to help nonbelievers wake up from their slumber and understand why unbelief drags people to hell. Well that's one of the many lessons. Luke 16 story is prophecy.

[missmuffet]

 

Here's a from a free resource that allows reposting their material -Helltruth.  I didn't write this but it's what I'd say if I could speak so well.

 

The Rich Man & Lazarus

Doesn't the story of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31 teach an eternal hell of torment?

No, Indeed! It is simply a parable used to emphasize a point. Many facts make it clear that this is a parable. A few are as follows:

• Abraham's bosom is not heaven (Hebrews 11:8-10, 16)
• People in hell can't talk to those in heaven (Isaiah 65: 17)
• The dead are in their graves (Job 17:13; John 5:28, 29). The rich man was in bodily form with eyes, a tongue, etc., yet we know that the body does not go to hell at death. It is very obvious that the body remains in the grave, as the Bible says. If you'd like to know more about what happens after you die visit The Truth About Death website.
• Men are rewarded at Christ's second coming, not at death (Revelation 22:11, 12)
• The lost are punished in hell at the end of the world, not when they die (Matthew 13:40-42). The point of the story is found in verse 31 of Luke 16. Parables cannot be taken literally. If we took parables literally, then we must believe that trees talk! (See this parable in Judges 9:8-15).

By representing the beggar as being in heaven and the rich man as lost, Jesus taught His hearers that, contrary to the prevailing view, wealth was not necessarily an indicator of divine favor, just as poverty was not a sign of God's judgement upon a person.

Jesus was also seeking to educate the Jews that salvation would not be theirs by birthright. The rich man in torments calls out to "father Abraham," just as the Jews of Jesus' day were mistakenly pointing to heritage as proof of their assurance of salvation.

Furthermore, Jesus was seeking to lead His hearers to understand that only faithfulness to God's Word would prepare them to enter into eternal life. He told them, "If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead" (Luke 16:31).

 

 

"Abraham's bosom" was a part of Jesus's teaching to focus minds on the fact that our choices to seek God or disgard Him here on earth literally affect where we spend eternity.

[veryberry]

Abraham's Bosom is a reference to the paradise side of hell(There was a great gulf, also know as "the Bottomeless Pit") where all Old Testament saints went.  Their Sins could not be remitted because Jesus Christ had not yet died and his blood applied to the mercy seat.

[Butch5]

Blessings everyone. Do you guys think this is proof that after we die we are to be with the Lord right away?

 

19"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day.20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried.23In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house,28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'29"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'30" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'31"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "

 

No, it's an allegory about the priesthood of Israel. Jesus isn't teaching about the afterlife.