answers to Revelation

[JohnMenthol]

I want this to be a thread where I can bring forward a list of ideas in response to questions had on this subforum. I believe this will be more productive as it can have a secondary function of raising Revelation as a topic unto itself and also will bring a notoriety to my posts that they would probably lack in other threads. I have a few questions to start off with

 

1. Revelation says the Philadelphians will be spared from the hour of temptation. Does this imply  mid-trib Rapture?

 

I am post-trib. What this verse means is that those who are spared from the hour of temptation will be preserved through, but not from. A careful study of the Greek bears that out. The idea in mind is 'preservation' and is different from the raptural notion of being removed from hardship. So it does not abrogate the idea that the elect will suffer through the Tribulation.

 

2. Revelation 12,

 

This is about the church reaching maturation. Being carried into the wilderness has reference to Matthew 24 Jesus says, "When you therefore shal see the abomination of desolation... let those who be in Judea flee into the mountains." It is there in the wilderness that the bride will be perfected. Not everyone will be gathered to the wilderness however. Some will have ministries in their home countries and many will be scattered aearound like chickens with their heads cut off. It is in the Tribulation period where the Bride is perfected, goes into labor so to speak and gives birth or reaches maturation. Mary and Joseph and Jesus fleeing into Egypt was a type and even Exodus was a type to foreshadow the ultimate New Testament Exodus.

 

3. Physical or symbolic interpretations in Revelation (specifically the Mark)

 

A great deal of Revelation is physical. If you put down the kool-aid for a minute and drop what it is you're doing, you'll realize that becaiuse the book makes many bizarre and outlandish claims, people over the years have sought to turn it into a symbol or puzzle. But is that really the way it is or is it more convenient to set aside some of its more bizarre pronouncements to save face, or to spare ourselves trouble? To some degree, both are at work. There is symbolism in the book and their are claims made that are quite physical in their implications that most folks, even strong Christians are not comfortable in their implications. As to a mark, I'm open to it being a chip but I personally lean towards it being a tattoo.

 

4.  What are the meaning of these two verses?

 

"That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation"... "And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth."

 

The meaning of the 'who', who is being blamed for these murders. It is a demonic spirit who is to blame and all that he controls. The spirit has control over religious dogma, supremacy, and zealotry. From day one, Abel was the theological, God-honoring variety. Cain was a secular moralist who offered grain. It was in his zealous passion that he killed Abel. As you examine the prophets, Jeremiah was greatly hounded by those who believed they did a work for God. Amos was banished and told 'stop prophesying and leave'. Moses was challenged for over forty years, essentiall from the beginning of his ministry by people believing they did the work of God, like the sons of Korah, or Miriam who said "Hasn't God spoken through us too?" Onward it goes... Zechariah was not killed by radical socialist atheists, but rather by devout rabbinical Jews who believed they were 'stoning the heretic'. Jesus was killed for the belief of the elite that He was espousing blasphemy and heresy as much as anything else. Stephen too went against the solemn traditions of the high priests. And further down the list James was thrown from the height of the temple and stoned, Peter was crucified upside down... and on and on it goes.

 

These were done in some cases by zealous Romans who believed they were honoring Caesar and 'the gods'. And then we reach modern Mystery Babylon who is on a crusade of its own. That is for a later discussion though. The 'who', is the demonic power that infects people with religious zealotry, a willingness to kill to assert the supremacy of one's beliefs.

 

 

5.

[missmuffet]

If you are post-trib then I am not going to come into the conversation because I am pre-trib.

[JohnMenthol]

5. When does it begin?

 

 

According to the research I've committed to this topic, I am of the opinion that the Great Tribulation (the 3.5 years) starts sometime around 2018.

 

6. What is the job of the 144,000?

 

 

They are cleaners. The cleaner is after a criminal op is the group that goes in and risks getting caught while the crew escapes. The cleaner is the most dangerous and craziest of all because he takes the job no one else will dare take. The jobs the 144,000 are doing are some touch up, janitorial type thing, they're cleaning up the mess that was made over the last couple thousand years. They are necessary for a couple reasons: They're cleaning up messes that many people weren't aware even existed and secondly, they're the only ones empowered with the ability to fix it.

 

They are the night crew. And they are all Boy Scouts, the type that will help an old lady across the road or make sure a stray animal has a bite to eat or drink. They are marvelous.

[Guest]

.... a secondary function of raising Revelation as a topic unto itself ....

 

 

Seek Jesus

 

The same came therefore to Philip, which was of Bethsaida of Galilee, and desired him, saying, Sir, we would see Jesus. John 12:21

 

And You Will Have Found The Heart Of Revelation

 

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, Revelation 1:1(a-b)

 

Along With The Future Of Life, The Universe And Everything, Maranatha~!

 

to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: Revelation 1:1 (c-d)

[Guest ninhao]

If you are post-trib then I am not going to come into the conversation because I am pre-trib.

 

BoPeep this is terrible.  Now you won't speak with us

 

[Guest]

What is the job of the 144,000?

 

 

Jews

 

Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.

 

Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.

 

Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.

 

Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand. Revelation 7:5-8

 

Testifying To Jesus

 

And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Revelation 7:13-14

 

With Their Blood

 

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Revelation 20:4

 

And The KING OF THE JEWS Wins His People Back

 

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: Romans 11:25-26

 

How About That~!

 

For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. Romans 11:27

[Guest]

If you are post-trib then I am not going to come into the conversation because I am pre-trib.

 

BoPeep this is terrible.  Now you won't speak with us

 

 

    

 

Wanna Bet

[Montana Marv]

John

 

Your Rev 12 view in your #2 in OP is askew.  This is referring to Israel and not the Church being protected (the time of Jacobs trouble).  This view also is a slap in the face to the Great Commission; Go into all the world and preach the Gospel.  For Christ is our refuge now, no matter what the situation.  An angel flying in midair proclaims the eternal Gospel during the 70th week.  We don't need to be here.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Guest]

 

If you are post-trib then I am not going to come into the conversation because I am pre-trib.

 

BoPeep this is terrible.  Now you won't speak with us

 

 

Nobody is going to be convinced/persuaded to change their position. Mid- or post-trib Rapture adherents just discount anything that disagrees with their position and, in my experience, tend to become indignant when presented with sound doctrine that does not agree with them. So, a few of us pre-Tribbers have chosen not to get into a debate over this as it is fruitless.

[Spock]

If you are post-trib then I am not going to come into the conversation because I am pre-trib.

 

BoPeep this is terrible.  Now you won't speak with us

 

Nobody is going to be convinced/persuaded to change their position. Mid- or post-trib Rapture adherents just discount anything that disagrees with their position and, in my experience, tend to become indignant when presented with sound doctrine that does not agree with them. So, a few of us pre-Tribbers have chosen not to get into a debate over this as it is fruitless.

I don't know to laugh or cry on this post. I know people are so passionate about what they believe is truth that thy forget love and grace. I think there is more to it besides just that, perhaps ego and being afraid if wrong.

Anyhow, me personally, I once was a pre tribber, really think post tribbers are missing the big picture on this one, and have found contentment with pre wrath......but I still read all arguments with an open mind because as you can see, I changed my mind once. I have no problem changing again if someone convinces me otherwise. I know God has not seen fit to give me all knowledge and wisdom like he gave Solomon.