EnochBethany Posted March 2, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 649 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 99 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/21/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 2, 2014 How little I know about Greek? I have a master's degree in Greek. Thou hast said, "Hamartanein is in the present active infinitive which refers to continuously sinning." Πᾶς ὁ γεγεννημένος ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ ἁμαρτίαν οὐ ποιεῖ, ὅτι σπέρμα αὐτοῦ ἐν αὐτῷ μένει, καὶ οὐ δύναται ἁμαρτάνειν, ὅτι ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ γεγέννηται. The present active does not mean continuous -- Tho it can be used where the action is continuous. (IMHO, the idea that present means continous & aorist always means punctiliar has been seized on by ignorant preachers & thus spread.) < James 3 "πολλὰ γὰρ πταίομεν ἅπαντες." For in many things we all stumble." ptaiomen = present active indicative 1 Plural. If the present had to mean continuous, this would mean "For in many things we all continuously stumble"!!! "but as it is, I wrote unto you not to keep company, if any man that is named a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such a one no, not to eat." μηδὲ συνεσθίειν. Sunesthiein = present active infinitive. Paul is not telling them yes, you may eat on occasion with the fornicator, but don't you continually eat with him. In the same way, IMHO, 1 John is not telling them that yes Chrs sin, but they don't sin continually. To express continually in Greek one may use διὰ παντὸς (dia pantos). < Heb 13 "Through him then let us offer up a sacrifice of praise to God continually" The verb is ἀναφέρωμεν anapherōmen = present active. Thus we see that while the present can be used when an action is continuous, the verb by itself does not specify continuous. Bro, the interp that the passage speaks of the New Nature of the Christian is the only one that makes sense to me. The New Nature is all that is begotten of God; the flesh (sarx, Old Man, Old Nature) is Adamic. In Rom 7 Paul says "it is no more I that do it [sin], but Sin which dwells in me." Thus I take it that the New Nature of the Chr never sins, but the Old Nature is active when he sins, the flesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 (edited) How little I know about Greek? I have a master's degree in Greek. <<<Removed ToS violation>>> The present active does not mean continuous -- As used here in I John it refers to something ongoing. For example, if I am caught up in a lifestyle of sexual immorality where sin governs my life. It shows that my profession of Christ would not be true. John is saying that a person born of God is not practicing sin. Bro, the interp that the passage speaks of the New Nature of the Christian is the only one that makes sense to me. The New Nature is all that is begotten of God; the flesh (sarx, Old Man, Old Nature) is Adamic. In Rom 7 Paul says "it is no more I that do it [sin], but Sin which dwells in me." Thus I take it that the New Nature of the Chr never sins, but the Old Nature is active when he sins, the flesh. No, that doesn't make any sense. John is helping his audience spot the difference between the those who are genuine believers and those who falsely profess Christ. There were false teachers in their midst and John is telling them how to know the difference. That is the context. So if John simply means that that it is the inner man who no longer continues to sin, despite onging sin being actually committed in the flesh, John's comments are pointless. Edited March 2, 2014 by shiloh357 Edited to remove accusation/ToS violation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnochBethany Posted March 2, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 649 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 99 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/21/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 2, 2014 How little I know about Greek? I have a master's degree in Greek. Well, then you are not being honest about the text. The present active does not mean continuous -- As used here in I John it refers to something ongoing. For example, if I am caught up in a lifestyle of sexual immorality where sin governs my life. It shows that my profession of Christ would not be true. John is saying that a person born of God is not practicing sin. Bro, the interp that the passage speaks of the New Nature of the Christian is the only one that makes sense to me. The New Nature is all that is begotten of God; the flesh (sarx, Old Man, Old Nature) is Adamic. In Rom 7 Paul says "it is no more I that do it [sin], but Sin which dwells in me." Thus I take it that the New Nature of the Chr never sins, but the Old Nature is active when he sins, the flesh. No, that doesn't make any sense. John is helping his audience spot the difference between the those who are genuine believers and those who falsely profess Christ. There were false teachers in their midst and John is telling them how to know the difference. That is the context. So if John simply means that that it is the inner man who no longer continues to sin, despite onging sin being actually committed in the flesh, John's comments are pointless. Yes, I am being honest. Judge not, lest ye be judged. Look at the context. Evidently 1 John is a largely an expansion on John 15, the believer abiding in Christ, not primarily an attack on false teachers. John's teaching is not pointless. The key to non-sinning is to abide in Christ. When one abides in Christ, one cannot sin at all! It is absurd to say that when a believer abides in Christ he sins here & there, but not continuously. Context: Beloved, now are we children of God, and it is not yet made manifest what we shall be. We know that, if he shall be manifested, we shall be like him; for we shall see him even as he is. 3 And every one that hath this hope set on him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. 4 Everyone that doeth sin doeth also lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. 5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away sins; and in him is no sin. 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither knoweth him. 7 My little children, let no man lead you astray: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous: 8 he that doeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. To this end was the Son of God manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is begotten of God doeth no sin, because his seed abideth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. 11 For this is the message which ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another: IMHO: This passage is not primarily intended to tell how sot id false teachers, though it mentions them. The primary purpose is not to answer the question, "How do you identify false teachers," But how does the Christian achieve purity. Will you argue that because the text uses the present tense in "in Him is no sin," that the text means "in Christ there is not continuously sin, but He sins from time to time"??? I have honestly shown that the present tense in Greek does not necessarily denote habitual or continuous action. Did you not understand the examples I gave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnochBethany Posted March 3, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 649 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 99 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/21/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 3, 2014 In John 3, remarkable statements are made about the Christian's inability to sin. 6 Whosoever abides in him sinneth not: whosoever sins hath not seen him, neither knows him. 7 My little children, let no man lead you astray: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous: 8 he that doeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. To this end was the Son of God manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is begotten of God doeth no sin, because his seed abideth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. At first glance the reader may think he is reading an impossible & fantastic claim, namely that the Christian cannot sin; though we Christians know full well that we sin frequently. Also James tells us that in many ways we stumble (present tense). Thus, many interpreters have sought some explanation of how it is that this verse seems to say we cannot sin, while we sin. The desire seems to be to relieve the text of stating an absurdity, that Christians don't sin. Refuge has been sought in the doctrine that the Greek present tense means habitual or continual action. Thus the passage is re-translated "he cannot sin habitually" or "cannot sin continually." However, the Greek text has no word that means "habitually" or "continually" in it. The Greek present tense can be used where action is habitual or continuous; yet the present tense in & of itself does not mean "habitual" nor "continual." Now if one searches the internet, one can find both affirmation & denial of the "continual" claim for the present tense. Here is Greek: "πᾶς ὁ γεγεννημένος ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ οὐχ ἁμαρτάνει" πᾶς = everyone ὁ the ὁ γεγεννημένος = the one begotten ἐκ = out of ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ = out of (the) God οὐχ = not ἁμαρτάνει = sins οὐχ ἁμαρτάνει = does not sin. No word that means habitual occurs. ἁμαρτάνει is a present tense verb, and the present tense may be sometimes used where the action is habitual. I rule out that possible usage because in fact Christians do habitually sin. Πᾶς ὁ γεγεννημένος ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ ἁμαρτίαν οὐ ποιεῖ, ὅτι σπέρμα αὐτοῦ ἐν αὐτῷ μένει, καὶ οὐ δύναται ἁμαρτάνειν, ὅτι ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ γεγέννηται. The present active does not mean continuous -- Tho it can be used where the action is continuous. (IMHO, the idea that present means continous & aorist always means punctiliar has been seized on by ignorant preachers & thus spread.) < James 3 "πολλὰ γὰρ πταίομεν ἅπαντες." For in many things we all stumble." ptaiomen = present active indicative 1 Plural. If the present had to mean continuous, this would mean "For in many things we all continuously stumble"!!! "but as it is, I wrote unto you not to keep company, if any man that is named a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such a one no, not to eat." μηδὲ συνεσθίειν. Sunesthiein = present active infinitive. Paul is not telling them yes, you may eat on occasion with the fornicator, but don't you continually eat with him. In the same way, IMHO, 1 John is not telling them that yes Chrs sin, but they don't sin continually. To express continually in Greek one may use διὰ παντὸς (dia pantos). < Heb 13 "Through him then let us offer up a sacrifice of praise to God continually" The verb is ἀναφέρωμεν anapherōmen = present active. Thus we see that while the present can be used when an action is continuous, the verb by itself does not specify continuous. IMHO, those who claim "continual" display ignorance of Greek or a superficial understanding of Greek. If the present tense had to mean "continual," then one would be forced to read James to say that in many ways we all continually stumble, that is continually sin! Think for a moment. Can Christians continually sin? James at least implies that we habitually sin. Now what about "continually"? The Christian does have a carnal state in which he sins: "Are ye not carnal?" 1 Cor says. Romans 7 speaks of a Christian in the carnal mode: "I am carnal, sold under sin." Now how long can a state of carnality last? Isn't everything a man does in the carnal state sin? If the Corinthians lived 1 month in a state of carnality, would that not be continual sin? What about 1 hour of carnality? Would not the carnal man be sinning continually during the hour? If we say that "continual" means forever, of course eventually a Christian stops sinning; for as Peter tells us, he who suffers in the flesh ceases from sin -- which I take to mean when you die you stop sinning. So if Christians indeed are capable of living in a continual sinful state (whereby the admonition is "Awake thou that sleepest & Christ will dawn upon thee," and "Put on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for the flesh"), then the "continually" interpretation of 1 John 3 is wrong. Fortunately, the "continually" interpretation is not the only way to reconcile what John says with reality. I put it to you that a better explanation is that John speaks of the New Nature which cannot sin because is begotten of God. Moreover, to enjoy the non-sinning state, the text indicates that we must abide in (fellowship with) Christ. This makes sense to me. It seems to me if our new nature did sin, we should be "lost again" -- and never truly saved; our new nature would be defiled & we would need another regeneration! My interpretation of 1 John 3 is consistent with Romans 7 where a strange interchange of I's and me's is found. It is clear that the Christian has two different ego's or I's (an old & a new). With regard to the Christian sinning it is said, "It is no longer I [sinning], but Sin [is sinning]." "I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For that which I do I know not: for not what I would, that do I practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 But if what I would not, that I do, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17 So now it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwelleth in me. 18 For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, dwells no good thing; . . ." The Christian has an evil me and a righteous me, an old nature & a new nature. Consider that the context of 1 John is abiding in Christ, an expansion of the theme of John 15. Whosoever abides in him sinneth not. This statement does not mean that if you abide in Christ you will not continually sin; it means that when you abide in Christ you never sin while in that condition. How could one abide in (fellowship with) Christ and be sinning?" How could one be abiding in Christ with Gal 2:20-21 fulfilled, ("no longer I but Christ lives in me . . . I live in faith in the Son of God . . . ) and yet be sinning? So brethren, finding that 1 John 3 speaks of the New Nature which does not sin, makes much more sense to me that trying to force the present tense (without dia pantos = διὰ pαντὸς) to mean continually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARose88 Posted March 14, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 20 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/04/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 14, 2014 We must try to live a life with out Sin this is the best thing for us, we are all working on this together and i think in these last days we will be able to reach a Sinless life lets just trust in Jesus Christ to bring us out of Sin. 1 John 2 King James Version (KJV) 2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 1 John 3 King James Version (KJV) 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. 1 John 4 King James Version (KJV) 4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. 12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. 15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. 16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. 20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? 21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also. 1 John 5 King James Version (KJV) 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: 15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him. 18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. 21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen. Excellent verses. It's so important for us to realize that through Christ we can resist all temptation to sin. 1 Corinthians 10:13 - "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saved34 Posted March 16, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,185 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 667 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/28/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/19/1971 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Not all sin is brought about through temptation. You can sin by doing things that are not necessarily sin. Paul said at times even eating meat could be a sin if it offends your brother. Anything that is not of faith is sin. Sometimes I think satan can blind us to all the "big" sins that we miss it all together. He'll have us concentrating on how much we "don't do" that we miss the things we should do. Rom 14:20 Do not, for the sake of food, destroy the work of God. Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for anyone to make another stumble by what he eats. Rom 14:23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats, because the eating is not from faith. For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin. Truly it can be said that he who says he has no sin, is only deceiving himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trumpet cry Posted March 17, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 10 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/21/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 17, 2014 Not all sin is brought about through temptation. You can sin by doing things that are not necessarily sin. Paul said at times even eating meat could be a sin if it offends your brother. Anything that is not of faith is sin. Sometimes I think satan can blind us to all the "big" sins that we miss it all together. He'll have us concentrating on how much we "don't do" that we miss the things we should do. Rom 14:20 Do not, for the sake of food, destroy the work of God. Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for anyone to make another stumble by what he eats. Rom 14:23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats, because the eating is not from faith. For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin. Truly it can be said that he who says he has no sin, is only deceiving himself. James 4:17 "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin." 1 John 1: 4-10 "And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." Notice in John's warning to the church, he is talking of those who say that they have fellowship with God, yet walk in darkness (v. 6) , he says in this case we are liars and do not the truth. Then he states the fruit of walking in the light, saying that we have fellowship one with another and Jesus' blood cleanses us from all sin. Then back to the those walking in darkness, if we say that we have not sin (when we do- my input here) we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. Then he follows with the condition for being cleansed, If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Now If when we sinned we say that we have not, instead of confessing, John states that we make God a liar and His word is not in us (at the time that we sin and refuse to repent). This scripture is NOT saying that we are all still expected to sin and walk in it, but that we are to walk in the light so that we may have fellowship with God. This is always the best way, and God gives us the ability to do this. In His mercy, He has given us a way out IF, not when we do fall, and that is confession to Him, repentance and walking away from sin. In Luke 4, we are told of Jesus' temptation of the devil. He tempted Jesus in all the ways that man can be tempted, lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes and pride of life. Jesus was victorious over every temptation and so was able to redeem us from our sin. God became man so that He could earn our redemtion. He won the victory over sin for us in the wilderness during those 40 days, also proving that we are able to resist temptation. Of course, His blood had to be shed as the last and final sacrifice on our behalf... He who knew no sin. From this example, I really see no other way to sin, except through temptation. Even if a man eats what he knows God is telling him not to eat, so as to not cause a brother to stumble, then he was tempted to do so. Since Jesus went to the cross and rose from the dead and is seated at the right hand of God the Father, we have access to the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, who will teach, guide and lead us into all truth. In that we will know the "good to do". It is not true nor biblical that you can sin by doing something that is not sin. You are only accountable for that which you know to be sin, that which your own heart convicts you of. Of course, it is true, I believe, that something could be sin for you to do (or not do) at the time and not for someone else or not for you at another time. The key is in being lead by His Spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted March 17, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,135 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted March 17, 2014 This is from the OP: We must try to live a life with out Sin this is the best thing for us, we are all working on this together and i think in these last days we will be able to reach a Sinless life lets just trust in Jesus Christ to bring us out of Sin. When this happens then 1 John 1:9 has no effect on us; If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins.... When this happens then Jesus Christ is no longer our advocate with the Father. When this happens then the HS is not necessary. When this happens Satan will no longer tempt us. When this happens we are not in need of correction. A question to be asked to the original poster; Why has no one yet reached a sinless life before us? There has been no change, we all have been redeemed, yet none of us have reached perfection. In Christ Montana Marv PS This attaining a sinless life is when one obey's God's commandments. Look at what (Driven) the OP'er wrote. This is out of Mormon Doctrine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARose88 Posted March 19, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 20 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/04/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 19, 2014 This is from the OP: We must try to live a life with out Sin this is the best thing for us, we are all working on this together and i think in these last days we will be able to reach a Sinless life lets just trust in Jesus Christ to bring us out of Sin. When this happens then 1 John 1:9 has no effect on us; If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins.... When this happens then Jesus Christ is no longer our advocate with the Father. When this happens then the HS is not necessary. When this happens Satan will no longer tempt us. When this happens we are not in need of correction. A question to be asked to the original poster; Why has no one yet reached a sinless life before us? There has been no change, we all have been redeemed, yet none of us have reached perfection. In Christ Montana Marv PS This attaining a sinless life is when one obey's God's commandments. Look at what (Driven) the OP'er wrote. This is out of Mormon Doctrine. To clarify, are you saying that it is impossible for anyone not to sin (thus, impossible to keep God's commandments); or that it is impossible to reach a point where we cannot sin; or both? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted March 20, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,135 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted March 20, 2014 This is from the OP: We must try to live a life with out Sin this is the best thing for us, we are all working on this together and i think in these last days we will be able to reach a Sinless life lets just trust in Jesus Christ to bring us out of Sin. When this happens then 1 John 1:9 has no effect on us; If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins.... When this happens then Jesus Christ is no longer our advocate with the Father. When this happens then the HS is not necessary. When this happens Satan will no longer tempt us. When this happens we are not in need of correction. A question to be asked to the original poster; Why has no one yet reached a sinless life before us? There has been no change, we all have been redeemed, yet none of us have reached perfection. In Christ Montana Marv PS This attaining a sinless life is when one obey's God's commandments. Look at what (Driven) the OP'er wrote. This is out of Mormon Doctrine. To clarify, are you saying that it is impossible for anyone not to sin (thus, impossible to keep God's commandments); or that it is impossible to reach a point where we cannot sin; or both? Thanks. Rose88 Both None of us can reach a point where we cannot sin and stay that way, If we grow old, get sick, get wrinkles we are still under the curse. That is from a sinful nature. It is impossible to keep all of God's commandments. That is why they were given; to show that we are in sin. 1 Cor 13:12 - NOW we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror, then we shall see face to face; Now I know in part, then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. We are living in the "now" at this time; the "then" comes later when we are with Christ, in our new glorified bodies. Anyone who says they have come to the point where they do not sin and can stay there is a liar and the truth is not in them. In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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