The rapture theory: True or false?

[Montana Marv]

God the Father is the only one who knows when the His Son/Bridegroom will come for His Bride (Rapture)  Matt 24:26

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[rollinTHUNDER]

I don't know if this will help you, but I do not believe these verses refer to one particular day. "Last day"may be referring to a time period-like toward the end of an age or period or dispensation. Or it could be talking about a specific people group, like the Jews. I believe the OT saints will be resurrected at the end of the tribulation (Daniel 12:1-2). Maybe.....maybe not.

I don't know if this will help you either, brother, but the phrase being "raised up on the last day" is another way of saying one will be resurrected and reign with the Lord in the millennium.  The last day will endure for a literal 1000 years (Psalm 90:4, 2 Pet. 3:8).  Man will be ruled by the prince of darkness for 6000 years or six days, and then by Christ for 1000 years or the last day.  We have been living in the last days (plural) for almost 2000 years (Heb. 1:1).  Then to put the icing on the cake check out (Hosea 6:2).   

 

But now, I see that our last discussion about Daniel 12:1-2 did not help much.  I realize that pre-tribbers hope to escape long before the need arises, but now you say that you believe the old Testament saints will be resurrected after the tribulation?  Hmmmm?  What makes you so sure living pre-tribbers will move to the head of the line in the first resurrection?  Do you realize the dead in Christ will rise first?  Or is it that you believe the OT saints are not in Christ at all?  I'm just curious, what were the gentile believers grafted into?  

 

Revelation 11:18

And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

 

I don't see any discriminating between the old and new Testament saints anywhere here, do you?   

 

Or maybe I'm just missing something here?

[Spock]

I don't know if this will help you, but I do not believe these verses refer to one particular day. "Last day"may be referring to a time period-like toward the end of an age or period or dispensation. Or it could be talking about a specific people group, like the Jews. I believe the OT saints will be resurrected at the end of the tribulation (Daniel 12:1-2). Maybe.....maybe not.

I don't know if this will help you either, brother, but the phrase being "raised up on the last day" is another way of saying one will be resurrected and reign with the Lord in the millennium. The last day will endure for a literal 1000 years (Psalm 90:4, 2 Pet. 3:8). Man will be ruled by the prince of darkness for 6000 years or six days, and then by Christ for 1000 years or the last day. We have been living in the last days (plural) for almost 2000 years (Heb. 1:1). Then to put the icing on the cake check out (Hosea 6:2).

But now, I see that our last discussion about Daniel 12:1-2 did not help much. I realize that pre-tribbers hope to escape long before the need arises, but now you say that you believe the old Testament saints will be resurrected after the tribulation? Hmmmm? What makes you so sure living pre-tribbers will move to the head of the line in the first resurrection? Do you realize the dead in Christ will rise first? Or is it that you believe the OT saints are not in Christ at all? I'm just curious, what were the gentile believers grafted into?

Revelation 11:18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

I don't see any discriminating between the old and new Testament saints here anywhere, do you?

Or maybe I'm just missing something here?

You answered your question. Right now, I do believe OT believers are not the same as those in Christ. Does this make me a dispensationalist? I guess it might.

I have no problem seeing the church as being distinct, after all, it was a MYSTERY.

Don't get frustrated at me RT, I'm just not convinced yet, but always open. Keep them coming my brother.

[rollinTHUNDER]

I don't know if this will help you, but I do not believe these verses refer to one particular day. "Last day"may be referring to a time period-like toward the end of an age or period or dispensation. Or it could be talking about a specific people group, like the Jews. I believe the OT saints will be resurrected at the end of the tribulation (Daniel 12:1-2). Maybe.....maybe not.

I don't know if this will help you either, brother, but the phrase being "raised up on the last day" is another way of saying one will be resurrected and reign with the Lord in the millennium. The last day will endure for a literal 1000 years (Psalm 90:4, 2 Pet. 3:8). Man will be ruled by the prince of darkness for 6000 years or six days, and then by Christ for 1000 years or the last day. We have been living in the last days (plural) for almost 2000 years (Heb. 1:1). Then to put the icing on the cake check out (Hosea 6:2).

But now, I see that our last discussion about Daniel 12:1-2 did not help much. I realize that pre-tribbers hope to escape long before the need arises, but now you say that you believe the old Testament saints will be resurrected after the tribulation? Hmmmm? What makes you so sure living pre-tribbers will move to the head of the line in the first resurrection? Do you realize the dead in Christ will rise first? Or is it that you believe the OT saints are not in Christ at all? I'm just curious, what were the gentile believers grafted into?

Revelation 11:18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

I don't see any discriminating between the old and new Testament saints here anywhere, do you?

Or maybe I'm just missing something here?

You answered your question. Right now, I do believe OT believers are not the same as those in Christ. Does this make me a dispensationalist? I guess it might.

I have no problem seeing the church as being distinct, after all, it was a MYSTERY.

Don't get frustrated at me RT, I'm just not convinced yet, but always open. Keep them coming my brother.

I'm not frustrated. I'm just messin' with ya a little. Seriously, I think you usually ask good questions, but I didn't know what to think when you got silent. I haven't learned how to read minds yet, but I'm workin' on it.

I thought you would have asked more questions, though, if something wasn't clear.

[rollinTHUNDER]

I have no problem seeing the church as being distinct, after all, it was a MYSTERY.

Your view is pretty common actually, so I wouldn't feel bad about that. But that does not make it correct. The most popular belief in the first century was that Christ would come as a conquering king, but today we have the pre-trib rapture.  Don't you just love how history repeats?

 

I uncovered quite a bit about how the Old Testament saints fit into the kingdom of heaven in the first chapter of my book.  I believe your view would change if you read what I wrote about it.  Let me know if you want to read chapter one and I'll send it in a PM.

 

Cheers

[ARGOSY]

"In/At the resurrection of the last day" for their Resurrection (this is OT context for Israel) When will they be Resurrected? so is it Post Trib or Post Mill.

Scripture gives no hint on when the Rapture will occur. It is an unknown time, think about it "unknown". Post trib, near Post trib is a known time.

Pre 70th week is an unknown time. Mid week is a known time, Post trib is a known time, the 7th Trumpet is a known time (shortly after the 6th)

Rev 9:20 - The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping (or continued to) demons, idols .......

Are you part of these "the rest of mankind" who were not kill by these plagues and did not repent but continued to worship demons and idols.....

I hope not.

In Christ

Montana Marv

I don't see it as an unknown time. Its unknown only for unbelievers, the rest can know the approximate month but not the day or the hour.

Quite often that day is described as a thief for unbelievers, but not a thief for believers: 1 Thess 5:

Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.

So are you trying to say that the month will be know?

Yes. Currently the day and the hour are unknown. But when we see the abomination in Jerusalem we will know its about 3.5 years. Sometime between 1260 days and 1335 days after we see the antichrist declared God in Jerusalem amidst great deceiving signs, we will be resurrected. The event will be impossible to miss, and so the timeframes are clear.

[ARGOSY]

So what is the point now my friends

I think that the point is that one needs to study the Scriptures for themselves and decide what the Holy Spirit is telling them. But, one cannot be confident of anything that a person teaches is true if they are blatantly wrong in one aspect. Take for instance that I say that a person who is wearing two left shoes has two left feet. Do you believe it? Of course not. The person may have two left shoes on, but he most probably doesn't have two left feet. Now I say that the person has two left hands, while his hands are in his pockets. Are you going to believe that? You can't see his hands; but you do know that I didn't know what I was talking about when I made the incorrect statement that the person had two left feet. When it comes to Biblical teaching, how much more important is it that the teacher be correct in all that they teach in order for you to place your faith and knowledge in what they teach?

Fair enough, so let's write off that link as inaccurate. I'm going to use a similar argument though, starting with that "last day" argument. Using the bible as my source, it appears the ungodly will be judged on the day when we are resurrected, what say ye pre-tribbers:John 6:40 ...'And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.'John 11:24 ...'Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.'John 12:48 ...'He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.'My general argument against the pre-trib rapture is that in every single verse, in every single context where a resurrection or rapture occurs, the more obvious reading favors a post-trib rapture, and the less obvious meaning favors a pre-trib rapture. sure the bible is often open to interpretation but when every single case favors a post-trib or late-trib rapture you should think twice about the pre-trib rapture view.

Argosy,

I don't know if this will help you, but I do not believe these verses refer to one particular day. "Last day"may be referring to a time period-like toward the end of an age or period or dispensation. Or it could be talking about a specific people group, like the Jews. I believe the OT saints will be resurrected at the end of the tribulation (Daniel 12:1-2). Maybe.....maybe not.

I leave you with this to chew on if you want to go deeper:

http://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/bakers-evangelical-dictionary/last-days-latter-days-last-times.html

Thanks for stretching me here.

PS your john 12:48 last day reference to me is clearly different than the last day reference in John 6 and john 11. One is before the millennial reign of Christ (john 6 and 11) and one is after the 1000 year reign at the Great White throne judgment (john 12).

So, here last day meant last in two different instances.

My method of interpretation tends to literal and acknowledges that there are many ways to see a verse. I believe that by being literal whenever its likely, and having an interpretation that is the most likely face value interpretation that fits in with all the other most likely face value interpretations is the best way to do it. In this way only the true truth seekers will always find the truth, the rest are able to read their own theories into the text. Which makes it very difficult when the authorities teach you the wrong interpretation because you are able to read it into the text, and authorities have always got it wrong, so that doesn't help either. That's the background, now taking that into account I want you to acknowledge the following:

1)The phrase "the last day" unless context otherwise indicates, is referring to an actual day (you are welcome to point out where context otherwise indicates)

2) When two groups are separated , one group to inherit eternal resurrected bodies and the other group left behind, that is a definite judgement. It isn't the great white throne judgment of deeds, but its a greater judgment because as Christians rise up into the air, they are judged as having inherited eternal life, and those left behind are separated from the glory of God forever.

I hope those two points answer your objections about the last day, and the judgment on that day.

Other points regarding the rapture:

1) In Matthew 24 Jesus gives advice to pre-trib Christians, telling them to watch out for signs. Jesus does not change his audience or terms of reference when he starts describing the gathering of the elect AT THE SECOND COMING.

2) The elect are described as us Christians in the epistles, that's what the word "elect" means, not some future tribulation saints.

3) In 2 Thessalonians 1 the church is going through earthly troubles. Paul tells them they will get relief from those troubles at the second coming, not during an earlier rapture:

He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might 10 on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you

Sure you can explain it away, but the face value reading of the text is that we are to look forward to the second coming as our day of relief from earthly troubles, and not to an earlier rapture.

4) Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.

The face value reading of the text says that our gathering (the rapture) will occur AFTER the antichrist is revealed. The whole chapter then goes on to describe this revealing as the abomination type event, and not some earlier peace treaty ie signs and wonders and a great deception by the antichrist. Honest truth seekers will acknowledge that the second coming and our gathering occurs only after the antichrist is declared God in Jerusalem. Sure you can read your own meaning into the text, but are you being honest with the face value interpretation when you do so?

5) We are raised up at the last trumpet. 1 Corinthians 15:52

in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

Now Revelation lists 7 trumpets, the 7th sounding at the second coming. A true truth seeker acknowledges that this world is building up to the "last day", when the "last trumpet" will be blown. This day is known as the "day of the Lord" or the "second coming".

Sure you could justify an earlier set of trumpets leading up to the last trumpet and the rapture and then a tribulation set of trumpets leading up to the 7th trumpet and another resurrection, but is that really being honest with the text?

6)The 1 Thess 4 rapture verse doesn't seem to point to either pre or post trib. But on closer analysis it points to post-trib:

the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air

Do you see how VOCAL and OBVIOUS this coming is , if you are honest with the text. A LOUD COMMAND, a TRUMPET CALL. Pe-trib rapture proponents often will deny two second comings, but if you are honest with the text this is a second coming. Jesus himself comes with a loud command with the voice of an archangel, and with a trumpet call. Even if its just a pre-trib rapture swoop, its a dramatic event.

7) Pre-tribbers believe in a dramatic coming of Jesus (loud command/voice of archangel) with a last trumpet call and a gathering of the elect, including rising from the graves. Followed by the tribulation followed by a dramatic coming of Jesus with another last trumpet, another gathering of the elect, including another rising from the dead.

Is this really an honest viewing of the bible? I'm not trying to imply that those who disagree are dishonest Christians, just that we all interpret text according to preconceived ideas and can improve when we try to see the bible without tinted glasses of what we have been taught.

[Spock]

I have no problem seeing the church as being distinct, after all, it was a MYSTERY.

Your view is pretty common actually, so I wouldn't feel bad about that. But that does not make it correct. The most popular belief in the first century was that Christ would come as a conquering king, but today we have the pre-trib rapture.  Don't you just love how history repeats?

 

I uncovered quite a bit about how the Old Testament saints fit into the kingdom of heaven in the first chapter of my book.  I believe your view would change if you read what I wrote about it.  Let me know if you want to read chapter one and I'll send it in a PM.

 

Cheers

No, I don't want chapter one. I just ordered your book, so I can wait. I like how you both think and write so I would like to be challenged by your book. Can't wait to get it. Thanks.

[Spock]

Brother Argosy,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I do not see as you do.

First, let's look at 1 thess 5:

1Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

4But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. 5You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness. 6So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be awake and sober. 7For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, get drunk at night. 8But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. 9For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. 10He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him. 11Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing.

Spock's thoughts: the day of The Lord will come like a thief during peaceful times. There is no peace during the great trib. Honestly, this one thing should end any conversation about a post trib rapture.

Paul even said you do NOT EVEN NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THESE DATES. Why? Because you won't be here before it begins. we do not belong to the night, for God did not appoint us to suffer wrath. I believe the wrath he is referencing here is the day of The Lord judgment. Comfort yourself with these words. What words? You won't be here during that because you don't belong to the darkness.

Now let's look at 1 thess 4:

13Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

Spock's thoughts: this coming of The Lord is the rapture, not second coming. Jesus is telling these church saints to be encouraged LOOKING FOR HIM, NOT FOR ANTICHRIST. my post trib brothers are looking for antichrist first, not Christ. Tsk tsk. No comfort in that. This trumpet call is not related to the rev 8 trumpets and there is nothing that says it has to be. You need to study Jewish literature to get the meaning on this. Notice, the DEAD IN CHRIST (church age saints, not OT BELIEVERS) will rise first. Then the living believers go up next. ENCOURAGE ONE ANOTHER WITH THESE WORDS- what kind of encouragement would it be if all these people had to wait for the great trib with all the seal, trumpet, and bowl judgments to look forward to? Answer-none.

In fact, many trib saints will be slaughtered because they will hold on to their belief in Jesus and will not take the mark of the beast. Does that sound like something to be encouraged by? Do you think watching your children or loved ones being killed is encouraging?

One more thing my friend-God rescued Noah, did he not, before judgment? God rescued Lot before judgment, did he not? Just like them will he not do the same for the church? Please read rev 2 and 3 again. You may find pearls of wisdom in these admonition so to the 7 CHURCHES., especially to the church of Philadelphia. Good luck bro.

Spock watching and waiting for CHRIST, NOT FOR ANTICHRIST

[Enoch2021]

Brother Argosy,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I do not see as you do.

First, let's look at 1 thess 5:

1Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

4But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. 5You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness. 6So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be awake and sober. 7For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, get drunk at night. 8But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. 9For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. 10He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him. 11Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing.

Spock's thoughts: the day of The Lord will come like a thief during peaceful times. There is no peace during the great trib. Honestly, this one thing should end any conversation about a post trib rapture.

Paul even said you do NOT EVEN NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THESE DATES. Why? Because you won't be here before it begins. we do not belong to the night, for God did not appoint us to suffer wrath. I believe the wrath he is referencing here is the day of The Lord judgment. Comfort yourself with these words. What words? You won't be here during that because you don't belong to the darkness.

Now let's look at 1 thess 4:

13Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

Spock's thoughts: this coming of The Lord is the rapture, not second coming. Jesus is telling these church saints to be encouraged LOOKING FOR HIM, NOT FOR ANTICHRIST. my post trib brothers are looking for antichrist first, not Christ. Tsk tsk. No comfort in that. This trumpet call is not related to the rev 8 trumpets and there is nothing that says it has to be. You need to study Jewish literature to get the meaning on this. Notice, the DEAD IN CHRIST (church age saints, not OT BELIEVERS) will rise first. Then the living believers go up next. ENCOURAGE ONE ANOTHER WITH THESE WORDS- what kind of encouragement would it be if all these people had to wait for the great trib with all the seal, trumpet, and bowl judgments to look forward to? Answer-none.

In fact, many trib saints will be slaughtered because they will hold on to their belief in Jesus and will not take the mark of the beast. Does that sound like something to be encouraged by? Do you think watching your children or loved ones being killed is encouraging?

One more thing my friend-God rescued Noah, did he not, before judgment? God rescued Lot before judgment, did he not? Just like them will he not do the same for the church? Please read rev 2 and 3 again. You may find pearls of wisdom in these admonition so to the 7 CHURCHES., especially to the church of Philadelphia. Good luck bro.

Spock watching and waiting for CHRIST, NOT FOR ANTICHRIST

 

 

Spock Spock

 

I LOVE IT!!!!

 

You actually surprised me with the majority of your Post....nearly fell off the chair!!

 

The Third Person References were Alarming....but completed the motif  LOL 

 

 

Spock's thoughts: the day of The Lord will come like a thief during peaceful times. There is no peace during the great trib. Honestly, this one thing should end any conversation about a post trib rapture.

 

YEP.  It's called The Doctrine of Imminence.  There is no proceeding event...and believers are taught to conduct their lives in a moment to moment expectancy of Our Coming KING; its all through the NT (Phil 3:20; Titus 2:13; Heb 9:28; 1 Thess 1:10; 4:18, 5:6, Rev 22:20). 

 

Basically all positions (Mid-Trib, Pre-Wrath-Post Trib) besides Pre-Trib, deny the Doctrine of Imminence.

 

 

An understanding of a Jewish Wedding (Jesus and HIS Bride "The Church") should be reckoned with here, IMHO.....

 

The Ketubah, Betrothal

 

- Payment of the Purchase Price  

- Bride Set Apart (Sanctified)        

 

- Bridegroom departs to Father's House

- Prepares a Room Addition

**  Bride Prepares for IMMINENT Return (But She does not know WHEN)

 

-  Surprise Gathering  (See example with the 10 Virgins Parable)

-  Grooms arrival is Proceeded by a SHOUT

 

- Wedding

- 7 Day Marriage Supper

 

What's that Look Like??  :rolleyes:    A Model, Maybe 

 

 

The Post Trib Rapture Model...... Come lets get Married; then, I'm gonna beat the Living Daylights out of You,  then lets go have Dinner 

 

(Luke 12:40) " Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not."

If there was a proceeding event in Scripture then this statement is of null effect.

 

7 (Shocking surprise) "Raptures" in Scripture

 

Enoch 

Elijah

Jesus

Philip

Paul

Body of Christ

John (Rev 4:1)

 

There is no peace during the great trib.

Very Good and you were almost there.  You Have the Tribulation in 2 Parts separated by 3 1/2 Years.  The Tribulation as a the Whole 7 Years and The GREAT TRIBULATION (quoted by Jesus from Daniel 12) which initiates the last 3 1/2 Years beginning with the Abomination of Desolation.

 

That is Identified in Scripture and is a PROCEEDING EVENT.  The Rapture MUST occur before this event or it contradicts dozen of Scriptures.

 

Christs Second Coming is also in 2 Phases:  The Rapture (Gathers His Bride) and Again for Israel

 

 

The Last 4 verses of Daniel Chapter 9 are the Key to End Time Prophecy.... and this is also echoed by Christ in the Olivet Discourse.

 

Daniel 9:27  The 70th Week..... Detailed in Revelation 6: 19

 

 

Also Remember:  There are 2 Missions......  The Church and Israel

 

The Church is not appointed for GOD's Wrath.....(1 Thessalonians 5:9) "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,"  and (Revelation 3:10) " Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

 

TYPES:

 

Enoch and The Food of Noah.

 

Isaac's absence after his offer offering..... curiously, he's edited out of Scripture until 2 chapters later when he's United with His Bride.  (Check This)

 

Where was Ruth (Gentile Bride) during the Threshing Floor Scene?

 

Daniel's absence from the Fiery Furnace.

 

 

OT References:

 

(Isaiah 26:20-21) "Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.  {21} For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain."

 

(Zephaniah 2:3) "Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD'S anger."

 

(Psalms 27:5) "For in the time of trouble he shall hide me in his pavilion: in the secret of his tabernacle shall he hide me; he shall set me up upon a rock."

 

 

Post Trib Problems:

 

1.  Denies The Doctrine of Imminence

2.  Requires the Church to be here During the 70th Week (Israel and The Church are Mutually Exclusive, Dan 9: 24)

3.  The Church experiences GOD'S Wrath

4.  How can the Bride (Church) come with Jesus if she's not Raptured First?

5.  Who's going to populate the Millennium?

6.  Who are the "Sheep and Goat" Judgement?  (Matthew 25)

7.  How can the Virgin's of Matthew 25 buy oil without the mark of the beast?

 

Last Point:  Revelation.....

 

The Seven Churches (The Seven Lampstands):  Identifies the Church Rev 1:20

 

They are on the Earth in Chapter 1.  They are in Heaven when John Arrives Chapter 4:5

 

One Church Promised not to go into the Great Tribulation.

 

The 24 Elders

 

-  Identified as the Redeemed (Rev 5: 9,10)

-  only three are Identified as Kings and Priests (Melchizedek, Jesus, and the Redeemed......US )

- They worship the Lamb before he receives the Scroll

- Tribulation begins when the Scroll is Unsealed

 

 

** The majority above courtesy of Dr. Chuck Missler **