Reconstructionist89 Posted July 1, 2015 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 33 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 31 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 1, 2015 "I think that any law we make, how objective we think it might be, it will always stay subjective." How can a law be subjective and objective simultaneously? That would fall under the category of the law of contradiction. However, assuming that laws are not absolute or objective as you say, then the law of contradiction wouldn't even exist. So reasoning on this issue is futile. because what we think is good is typical for humans, for the continuing of our species." That is your assumption of what constitutes good. Given the worldview of evolution moral and ethical standards would have no meaning which is why it is often referred to as implicitly endorsing the survival of the fittest. it has been in our mind for tousands of years in order to survive. our good and wrong is totally based on survival instinct. check it yourself: everything you think is good, will help to let our species grow." This is pure prejudicial conjecture. It could be reversed I to saying everything good in our mind furthers the human species due to the law of God written upon the hearts of men. Thus this statement begs the question. everything you think is wrong, will let our species disappear or will hurt our own species." I think your theory of knowledge will hurt our own species because it cannot account for the logic which you employ. Evolution gives no consideration to metaphysics; therefore precludes God of Christianity. If evolution is characterized by change and evolving in time would it not follow that one's idea of right and wrong could possibly change and evolve to? Which would result in subjective moral relativism where everyone does what is right in their on eyes. We cannot assert facts without established the worldview which gives these facts meaning and intelligibility. Evolution fails in this regard. One must presuppose the God of the Bible to know or prove anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reconstructionist89 Posted July 1, 2015 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 33 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 31 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 1, 2015 I have never seen any convincing case for a "Universal Moral Law" and the fact that people disagree about pretty much everything, minus a few basic ideas, seems to me to suggest that morality is largely impressed on us by society, for better or worse. That said, clearly there are physical laws in the Universe that have constructed an environment for us to live in which we can thrive, pursue creative projects, experience health, happiness, and joy, revel in the relationships with our fellow humans, etc...and then there is the other end of the spectrum, where people live in constant fear and paranoia, of their safety, their reputations, their ability to trust their closest friends, etc...and it's pretty obvious which scenario most people would prefer. Hence, in that sense, morality is universal. How can a law be physical? Laws are abstract. And if these laws are merely conventions agreed upon by men they are subject to change; then the law is no longer a law. You are right that society impresses upon us laws but the only absolute ethical unchanging law is the law of God. Thats why health, happiness, joy and unity in human experience is possible. This law of God is written upon the hearts of all men whether loved by the believer or suppressed by the unbeliever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted July 1, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 1, 2015 Every human being has a conscience and knows right from wrong. Many will ignore or suppress their conscience, so that ultimately they become amoral or immoral. But there is a Universal Moral Law (if you will). That is why all religions teach morality, and all philosophers also teach morality. The Golden Rule is common to humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 On 6/10/2014 at 10:42 AM, LuftWaffle said: I agree. Universal would refer to a moral law that applies in all cases, at all times and all places. While it may be argued that killing children only for fun would be a universal moral law, it kind of complicates things. An objective moral standard is the better term because it refers to a mind-independent law, which is still subject to circumstance. I don't know if this is true of universal moral law. At lest historically. A couple of examples would be not to murder. not to commit adultery. It all depends on what a society decides these mean. We know polygamy has been accepted in countries where adultery is against the law. In some countries where only monogamy constitutes marriage, then polygamy would be adultery. Same with murder, is it justified in some countries to kill an adulteress? Yes, and it was not considered murder. So universal law does not mean it applies in all cases and all times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kathryn miller Posted February 23, 2016 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/21/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/21/1960 Share Posted February 23, 2016 On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 at 0:34 PM, Schouwenaars said: If i raise a human in complete enclosure, so that has never contact with other humans, he will only live by the rules in himself that he has by nature. so when he sees a human, he will think it's just an other animal and he will try to kill it to eat it. he will certainly not think: hey, i may not kill that one. i'll give another little exemple: if you could go back in time and kill sadam hoesein, would you do that? (not including the time paradox) you would still kill a person then, and that violates directly one of the 10 commandements. or if you see a person on the ground, who is suffering terribly, and can not be helped anymore, and will die in some hours. his suffering is enormous, gigantic, he is about to lose his mind. would you kill him to end the horrific suffering? because if you don't, you only let him die more slowly but with an incredible pain. because of this, i don't think there is an universal moral law. Wow those interesting situations. I would not kill someone. Anyone. And as for the suffering one I think to comfort and stay with til death would be our duty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kan Posted February 24, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,661 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 1,292 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/21/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 24, 2016 On 7/1/2015 at 1:28 PM, Reconstructionist89 said: How can a law be physical? Laws are abstract. And if these laws are merely conventions agreed upon by men they are subject to change; then the law is no longer a law. You are right that society impresses upon us laws but the only absolute ethical unchanging law is the law of God. Thats why health, happiness, joy and unity in human experience is possible. This law of God is written upon the hearts of all men whether loved by the believer or suppressed by the unbeliever. So the law is physical then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Robert Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 1 hour ago, Logoman said: Here's what God thinks of his men and beasts; Genesis 3 17: And to Adam he said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten of the tree of which I commanded you, `You shall not eat of it,' cursed is the ground because of you; in toil you shall eat of it all the days of your life; 18: thorns and thistles it shall bring forth to you; and you shall eat the plants of the field. 19: In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; you are dust, and to dust you shall return." Genesis 6 12: And God saw the earth, and behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way upon the earth. 13: And God said to Noah, "I have determined to make an end of all flesh; for the earth is filled with violence through them; behold, I will destroy them with the earth. Ecclesiastes 3 17: I said in my heart, God will judge the righteous and the wicked, for he has appointed a time for every matter, and for every work. 18: I said in my heart with regard to the sons of men that God is testing them to show them that they are but beasts. 19: For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts; for all is vanity. 20: All go to one place; all are from the dust, and all turn to dust again. What is good exists in the Spirit of God. What is destroyed is the flesh of man. As you can see, the flesh of man are the sinners who are no good and have to be destroyed by the end of this age. The problem with that is: we are all sinners. But the Lord says this: ""For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God."" (John 3:16-21, NASB) As Scripture tells us, all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (Romans 3). But God isn't looking to wipe man off the planet; He wants man to repent and come to Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted October 15, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,158 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,444 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted October 15, 2016 Only those who have been born again in the Spirit of God can understand the difference between what is visible and what is invisible. Great! Care to expound upon this in light of this witness from God's Word Romans 1:18 (KJV) [18] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; [19] Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. [20] For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: [21] Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. [22] Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted October 15, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,158 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,444 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted October 15, 2016 The elements in God's design have not been corrupted for they are without life.... but the life within those elements have been. The error of gnosticism is of such that created things are evil and spirit things are good. That however is easily disprove by the fact that The Sinless Son of God came into a body and like as we tempted on all points yet remained sinless... There is an element of truth in God's total holiness that He will in fact destroy all 1st creation by fire 2 Peter 3:10 (KJV) [10] But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. [11] Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, [12] Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? [13] Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. because His hating even the garment next to sin Jude 23 (KJV) [23] And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. yet the garment is reminder of and not necessary in the eternality of New Heaven and New Earth... Where the finished plan of God in a sinless eternity in a newly created state unlike anything of this one 1 Corinthians 2:9 (KJV) [9] But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. The really neat thing is with my new s/Spiritual birth I need not any other proof but His Word which 'IS' sufficient to me to let go of all I have began in to embrace that which I cannot now know, in any experiential means, yet have peace and total trust outside of all that I am able into His abilities to perform that which is promised.... fully fulfilling this the Scripture speaks of Hebrews 10:38 (KJV) [38] Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted October 17, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,158 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,444 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted October 17, 2016 8 hours ago, Logoman said: If you are born of God, you will be in total agreement with whatever the Holy Spirit placed in my mind to type in my comments from our Father, the Creator of us and all our experiences. If you're not in agreement, then Satan and the beast are influencing the conversation. How long have you been a believer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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