Personal Finance from a Christian Perspective?

[GoldenEagle]

We are not under the Law, but under Grace

 

No man is justified by doing the works of the law. (Gal. 3:11) All the curses of the law were abolished and done away with by Christ who was made a curse for us. (Gal. 3:13). We are justified through faith in Jesus Christ. (Gal 3:24) Our hope is no longer in the law but in Christ who draws us near to God. (Heb. 7:18-19) 

 

According to Rom. 6:14 and Gal.5:18 we are led by God’s spirit as sin no longer has dominion over us. We are no longer under the law but under grace. 

 

"We are not under law but under grace." - Rom. 6:14 and Gal. 5:18.

 

From Col. 2:14 we are shown that Christ cancelled our debt that stood against at the cross. The debt in Mal. 3:7,14 that was owed was, amongst other things, the 10% that Israel was to tithe to avoid God’s wrath. Gal 3:13 and Col. 2:14 show us that the debt and curse of the law is no longer upon us as Believers. 

 

Salvation and eternal life through Jesus are both free to us without money or cost. We as Believers don’t give to be saved. Instead, we give BECAUSE we are saved and because we want others to be reached for the Gospel.

 

For the Jew, failure to tithe under the law brought God’s wrath to Israel. For the Believer, failure to give a tithe doesn't result in God's wrath or punishment.  

 

I’m convinced there are two things of eternal value on this earth – God’s Word (Psalm 119:89, 160; Is. 40:8; 1 Pet. 1:25) and people (Matt. 25:46; John 3:16; Rom. 6:23; Heb. 10:39; 1 Cor. 15:54; 1 John 5:13-14).

[Atwood]

Agree or disagree? I it would be foolish to disagree with God's word! It would make a good project as one reads thru the Bible each year, to mark the passages on money, finances, economics and the like.

[TheCurseOfTheRodain]

Hey GE,

 

    It is found in Psalm 115, verse 16:

"The Heaven, even the heaves, are the Lord's: but the earth hath He given to the children of men."

 

My point was that if we were to say that the Earth is the Lord's, then that would impugn Him saying that He gives license to Satan to do bad stuff with it. However, in light of Scripture, we see that the Earth belongs to us, not the Lord (though He owns it by right of Creation), since He said He has given it to us. Therefore, it is man who allows Satan to do the bad stuff (in light of the fact also that we as Believers have been given all power and authority over the Devil, therefore, we should not be allowing him to do anything, according to Luke 10).

[FreeinChrist]

Speaking of the Priesthood of Melchisedec of which type we as Christian Believers are part we read that he received Tithes, Hebrews 7:8.   And the only True High Priest who lives forever is Christ.

 

If Jesus Christ is the True Melchisedec, should not we support His minister just as Israel did the Aaronic priesthood. 

I Corinthians 9:9-13

9)    For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn.  Doth God take care for oxen?

10)  Or saith He it altogether for our sakes?  For our sakes no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of His hope.

11)  If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?

12)  If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather?  Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the Gospel of Christ.

Paul even writes of this passage from Deuteronomy 25:4 again:

For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn.  And, the labourer is worthy of his reward.

I Timothy 5:18

Remember that the labourer is worthy of his hire comes from the passage of Leviticus 19:5-13; which deals with the tithe.  So not only do I see the Writer of Hebrews writing in support of the tithe, but also Paul. 

 

Plus I think Jesus supported the Tithe in Matthew 23:23 and Luke 11:42.  If ever the Son of God had a chance to teach again tithing He could have stop the poor widow who gave of all that she had, while the others gave of their abundance, Mark 12:41-44.  Yes I agree with you that God loveth a Cheerful giver, II Corinthians 9:7.   But when we hold back the tenth from God, IMO we show our love of money over our love for God, and the love of money is the root of all evil, I Timothy 6:10.

 

Just my thoughts.

[Donibm]

 

I know you all don't mean it like this, but deep down, I think you do.

 

It's not about US! 

 

This thing isn't about "Christians". 

 

Adam, Seth, Abel, Noah, Moses, Elijah, Micah, and millions of others who were not even Israelites - men and women who served God and never even heard of a "Hebrew" or an "Israelite" or "Jerusalem" - were not Christian.  There are people living right this minute who are obeying the goodness of their conscious and will enter the Kingdom of God ... and they've never heard the Gospel.

 

I know this is beyond this thread, but I just want to admonish the brethren to stop being prideful, thinking you are Gods special little people (in some regard you are, but if you are receiving this as I intend, you know what I mean).  It is NOT about us.  It's ALL about Jesus.  Every Book of the Bible is about the Messiah, not "Christains".

 

It is not a "Christian perspective", but the Word of GOD.

 

Glory belongs to HIM, and we should give it ALL too HIM.  We are mearly ... stewards.  Does a steward dare rob the King of His glory?  Heaven forbid that I ever do it, and God forgive me for the times I have.

 

 

Again, no nit-picking.  Yes, we ARE our brothers keepers, and we ARE commanded to both encourage AND admonish each other.  To whomever is truely redeemed, hear what the Spirit says about this.

Sorry I don't understand this in red. A Christian perspective is based on the Word of God (the BIble). The Bible is indeed about God and Messiah. Yet the Bible is also how we understand what our role is as Christ-followers (Christians).

 

How do you figure people who are living right by obeying the "goodness of their conscience will enter the Kingdom of God... and they've never heard the Gospel."?

Rom. 10:14

¹⁴ How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard?

I agree we are stewards of what God given us. What do you mean by "Does a steward dare rob the King of His glory?" We aren't talking about robbing God. We're talking about what it means to be a good steward of what has given us if you will. Note too what I said earlier...

 

That said I do believe Scripture points to the Believer giving joyfully.  There is no specific number for the Christian but instead whatever God lays on our heart. Typically, this can be significantly more than 10%. God loves a cheerful giver. (2 Cor. 9:7)  

 

The Spirit speaks through God's Word. Show me in Scripture how the Spirit speaks differently than what has been put forth?

God bless,

GE

 

 

Hi eagles,

 

Sorry, I made some errors in that thread and will amend.  Well, I've been accused of "justifying" things in this particular web site, but, truth is truth, regardless of how it is perceived, and the truth is I"M AT WORK.  Military Advisor ... on a christian webpage?  LOL  Scandalous.  So, I'm always rushing from this location.  Always.

 

Obviously, Moses was an Israelite.  Big whoops there right?  :-)  But, to focus on what I said in the red.  Its' pretty easy once you know the DISPENSATIONS.  Take for example, Adam - Moses.  There was no law.  No oracles.  No Temple.  No ... nothing.  Consider Job.  Job was no Hebrew, and the Law of Moses didn't exist, yet God called Him righteous.  The point is, there are those who lived prior to the Law of Moses and so, they will not be judged by something that didn't even exist.  Don't you see?  Cain murdered, but he was never charged for murder.  Noah was a drunk, but never accused.  Abraham was an idol worshipper, but never condemned for it.  Even Jacobs wife stole her fathers idols, and sat on them to hide them.  Never condemned for it though.  Why not?  Because they were all under the dispensation of the conscious.  And so it is with all nations who never heard of the Law of God.  How can Asians be charged?  how can ancient Russia?  How can the islanders?  They never heard of Moses or the Law, so, like the men who have never even heard of Israel, they too will fall under that dispensation ... even human beings living this very hour.  They have never heard of Jesus or the Gospel, but they have souls right?  They must also be judged right?  But why would God judge them in accoradance to a Gospel they have never heard?  He will not.  Abraham insured that we would never misunderstand that about Gods nature:

 

"Far be it from You to judge the righteous with the wicked!"

 

 

 

Second red thing is, its not a Christian perspective.  I'm not talking about THIS thread, as I tried to be clear about, but in EVERYTHING I see in threads, from the pulpit, in my life groups, personal conversations, academic settings, etc.  I hear it too often "Christian" and "Christian" and "Christian" and I've grown to know that it's not about Christians.  Not in the Old Testament nor the New.  It's about CHRIST.

 

But too often, a Christian pitches something, such as, "when CHRISTIANS get to Heaven" ... for example.  I'm sorry, but Adam, Seth, Jeremiah, Melchesidek, Isaiah, Micah, and all the righteous who are not even part of the nation of Israel (such as Job) were not, and are not, Christians.  My point is, it does not belong to CHRISTIANS.  Now, if you look at it as christian vs psuedoChristian (or other religions), well, you will struggle with what I'm saying.  But I know it is not a Christian or a Jew thing, but a SAINT thing.  The SAINTS of God will be with God, and the SAINTS of God transcend both Judaism and Christianity.  After all, there were saints of God long before Judaism itself existed.  And by me typing "saint" does not imply any Catholic influence, because I remain uninfluenced by them, but I'm saying what Scriptures say.  ALL who turn from sin are SAINTS of God.  Didn't you see that in the Book of Isaiah?  That hidden jewel?  One moment isaiah says that only a remnant will be saved, but in another, he says ALL Israel will be saved, but in the Book of Isaiah, he also explains that true Israel are ALL who turn from sin, not just the bloodline of Jacob.  Only a remnant of the bloodline will be saved, but ALL saints will be, be they Jew or Gentile.  Paul merely piggy backed on that by saying that a true Jew is on who is INWARDLY, not one who simply shares blood with Jacob.  It doesn't matter if they lived BEFORE the law of Moses.  It doesn't matter if they never heard of it, or Jesus, or the Law, or the Gospel.  As long as they "obey the goodness of their conscious" - which is the only thing that tells us what is right and what is wrong - they will enter Paradise.  That is my point.  Hope it makes sense now.

 

 

 

Lastly, the third red thing is, too often people glorify themselves, instead of giving glory to God.  And Christians have grown just as arrogant as Jews were in Judaism.  They too thought they were "Gods special little people".  They too thought that they had the promise and the oracles so that must've made them better then everyone else.  And even in SIN they lived!  And I see the Church doing the same exact thing.  But when I read PROPHECIES concerning the end time, and even Christians, I see clearly the Word of God and what I see in real life: 

 

-men shall NOT heed sound doctrine

-there WILL be a great falling away

-you are the salt of the earth, what will happen to the world is the salt looses it flavor?  LOOSES its flavor.  LOOSES ITS FLAVOR!  {I wish people would see that}  It cannot be resalted.  It CANNOT be resalted.  IT CANNOT BE RESALTED!  {again, I wish people would see that too}

-ye are the light of the world

 

Now ask yourself, "What is the state of the world" in terms of morality.  Now ask yourself is the light is doing its job, or if the salt still has its flavor.

 

These passages (and others) are talking about Christians.

 

I don't know why Christians like to point at the world whenever the Word of God talks about "negative" things.  Honestly, a great many Christians should read Jeremiah chapters 3-6.  They should also read the warnings and admonishment of Paul, saying, "do not be prideful and puffed up, for if they, being a true branch, were broken off, how much more will YOU, being unnatural and grafted in, be broken off.  Therefore, be not prideful, but serve God in fear!"

 

Jer: For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

 

and again...

 

Jer: Therefore I said, Surely these are poor; they are foolish: for they know not the way of the LORD, nor the judgment of their God.

 

and again...

 

Jer: because their transgressions are many, and their backslidings are increased.  How shall I pardon thee for this? thy children have forsaken me, and sworn by them that are no gods: when I had fed them to the full, they then committed adultery, and assembled themselves by troops in the harlots' houses.  They were as fed horses in the morning: every one neighed after his neighbour's wife.  Shall I not visit for these things? saith the LORD: and shall not my soul be avenged on such a nation as this?

 

 

And let's not forget that Jeremiah pleaded.  But they did not listen.  They did not want to see the err of there ways.  how then is any Christain any different who reads this and simply says, "Oh, he's trippin.  We are CHRISTIANS - gods favorite little people.  God will never show anger or judgment towards us.  he'll never wipe us from the Lambs Book of Life".  To that I respond as Paul: "Oh you foolish Galatians!  Who has lied to you that you should not obey the Truth!?"

 

So even now I ask, where is the difference?  How is the Church any better?  Are you not under a greater Judgment since you have had the EXAMPLES of Israel .. but fail to have learned by them?  Jesus Himself said that the cities/nations who are given greater knowledge and revelation will face a face worst Judgement, even a worst Judgment than wicked cities like Sodom, or Tyre, or even Babylon!

 

Hopefully, this large booklet explains more about my intent in the things in red.

 

 

 

EDIT: please keep in mind, this is by no means an allowance of other religions.  Just because they "stop sinning" also.  Ignore other religions and this may make more sense to you.  There is much that I've left out becuase by the time my fingers catch up to my mind, I've already forgotten the thought and the Scripture that comes to mind as I type.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Donibm

[GoldenEagle]

Speaking of the Priesthood of Melchisedec of which type we as Christian Believers are part we read that he received Tithes, Hebrews 7:8.   And the only True High Priest who lives forever is Christ.

 

If Jesus Christ is the True Melchisedec, should not we support His minister just as Israel did the Aaronic priesthood. 

I Corinthians 9:9-13

9)    For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn.  Doth God take care for oxen?

10)  Or saith He it altogether for our sakes?  For our sakes no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of His hope.

11)  If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?

12)  If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather?  Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the Gospel of Christ.

Paul even writes of this passage from Deuteronomy 25:4 again:

For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn.  And, the labourer is worthy of his reward.

I Timothy 5:18

Remember that the labourer is worthy of his hire comes from the passage of Leviticus 19:5-13; which deals with the tithe.  So not only do I see the Writer of Hebrews writing in support of the tithe, but also Paul. 

 

Plus I think Jesus supported the Tithe in Matthew 23:23 and Luke 11:42.  If ever the Son of God had a chance to teach again tithing He could have stop the poor widow who gave of all that she had, while the others gave of their abundance, Mark 12:41-44.  Yes I agree with you that God loveth a Cheerful giver, II Corinthians 9:7.   But when we hold back the tenth from God, IMO we show our love of money over our love for God, and the love of money is the root of all evil, I Timothy 6:10.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

So I agree we're of the Melshesidec as priests and co-heirs with Jesus our high priest.

 

Some things we probably differ on. I believe Jesus and by extent Paul was talking about giving. Going above and beyond the tithe. Kind of like Jesus saying that the righteousness of people should be greater than that of the Scribes and Pharisees. (Matt. 5:20) The Kingdom of God is about giving 100% of what we own to God - our money, time, energy, work, etc. God wants perfection from us which can only be found through Jesus Christ.

Tithing was 10% of land, cattle, etc. See parallel to the passage in Matt. 23:23 is in Luke 11:42.

 

 

Remember too that in Matthew 23 Jesus was pronouncing woes to Jews - Scribes and Pharisees. These particular Jews weren't Believers but were trying to earn their salvation through the law and doing good works. Jesus particularly in verse 23 was pointing out that the Scrives and Pharisees were tithing (works) but there wasn't heart change (justice, mercy, heart change). Jesus was pointing out the Scribes and Pharisees holiness was just lip service from sinners and not true worship towards God from someone who was redeemed - they needed a Savior.

 

What do you make of this?

 

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

Re: Mark 12:41-44 By the widow's example we see Jesus was excited by her gift of 100% of everything she owned. Not about her "tithe". If anything it speaks against giving only 10%. Unless I'm reading the passage wrong. Please read it again and let me know what you think?

As to the passage in I Timothy 6:10 obsession we as Believers tend to have with 10% (tithe or robbing God)... How do you know that someone, who for a season of life, doesn't give 10% (tithe) to the church is robbing God? Again you're taking the passage in the OT out of context and applying it to the Church when it should be applied to Israel. So if a friend doesn't give 10% to the church you would say to their face they are robbing God?

But let's talk in a practical sense here. What about people who are barely making ends meet? Should someone who say lost a job give to the church 10% instead of 5% which allows the person to put food on the table, pay rent/mortgage, keep the lights on, keep the water running, and pay for basic (gas) transportation?

 

Or what about those who are not involved in a local fellowship of Believers? Curious what you think. 

God bless,
GE


 

[GoldenEagle]

19Duggarfan as to giving to ministers... Eternal Rewards and Who to Give to?

 

From 1Tim. 6:19 we see that we are storing up treasures in eternity. 

 

Of note the worker is worthy of his wages. Whoever preaches the Gospel should earn their living by the Gospel. (Matt 10:10; Luke 10:7; 1 Cor 9:14)

 

First to those who teach the Gospel (Gal 6:6). That is first and foremost to the local church in support of the local church staff. These are the people that teach and equip us. It also means giving to secondary sources for example the radio station you listen to, missionaries locally or overseas, evangelists, churches you visit, etc. 

 

Acts 20:35 reminds us that Jesus said “It is more blessed to give than to receive.”

 

God bless,

Ge

[GoldenEagle]

 

Hopefully, this large booklet explains more about my intent in the things in red.

 

Interesting perspective. You kind of lost me along the way as the post was really, really long. Possible to summarize in say 3-4 sentences?

 

As far as the OP (original post) subject (feel free to start another topic if this one doesn't interest you) what do you think of giving and tithing?

God bless,

GE

[Guest]

But let's talk in a practical sense here. What about people who are barely making ends meet? Should someone who say lost a job give to the church 10% instead of 5% which allows the person to put food on the table, pay rent/mortgage, keep the lights on, keep the water running, and pay for basic (gas) transportation?

 

Or what about those who are not involved in a local fellowship of Believers? Curious what you think. 

God bless,

GE

 

 

I've been called a lot of things over the years for this, but survival comes first. I've been homeless in the past and its not fun or safe. I made bad decisions in the past and paid a high price for them, and am still paying for it in a lot of ways. The prosperity gospel types usually hate me because I remind them we as believers are not called to live in riches and comforts.   Sometimes life can really stink, but that's reality not a dreamworld.

 

I don't believe titheing is "required" for NT believers -- but at the same time its not a bad pattern to follow. If you want to do that, that's great - just don't start saying its required for everyone. Problem is that the Bible also makes clear that God thinks little of those who don't care for their families. Therefore I'm paying rent, groceries, transport, etc. to keep the home financial treadmill going first. Giving to the local church means squat if your kids are hungry (or you for that matter.) If there's nothing left after that, that's above my pay grade. I've long since stopped banging my head on closed doors and brick walls I can't do anything about.