Post Tribbers - Please explain

[Enoch2021]

 

Matt 24:15 - So when you see standing in the holy place the A/D... v16 - Flee.   v21 - For then there will be great distress, unequaled form the beginning of the world until now..  So this great distress is great tribulation filled with great wrath.  The last 3 1/2 years will be ugly for those who live on this earth.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

Absolutley this is correct Marv.

 

But i dont think the great tribulation is filled with great wrath.

 

I believe that the great tribulation follows tribulation and then the day of the Lord starts (Gods wrath)

 

So, if the Day of the Lord must occur after the rapture then seal 7 of rev 8 must be past the AoD point or the midpoint.

 

So therefore the time of great tribulation must start at seal 4 and continue untill seal 6.

 

Do you differentiate between the Day of the Lord and the Great tribulation Marv?

 

 

 

 

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You said...."Absolutely this is correct. Marv."

 

In Response to:

 

Marv said.....

 

"Matt 24:15 - So when you see standing in the holy place the A/D... v16 - Flee.   v21 - For then there will be great distress, unequaled form the beginning of the world until now..  So this great distress is great tribulation filled with great wrath.  The last 3 1/2 years will be ugly for those who live on this earth."

 

Then you said...."But i dont think the great tribulation is filled with great wrath."

 

How can Marv be "Absolutely Correct" when you just replied with the Polar Antithesis of what Marv said? 

 

 

I believe that the great tribulation follows tribulation and then the day of the Lord starts (Gods wrath)

 

How can there be "tribulation" before the "Great Tribulation".   Please show where there is just plain "tribulation" before the Abomination of Desolation?

 

Daniel says there is a Covenant for the first half of the week (3 1/2 years) until the Abomination of Desolation....

 

(Daniel 9:27) "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

 

Then Christ said from that Point (Abomination of Desolation) there will be "Great Tribulation"....

 

(Matthew 24:15-21) " When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place,  (whoso readeth, let him understand:)  {16}  Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:  {17}  Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:  {18}  Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.  {19}  And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!  {20}  But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:  {21}  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

 

Does Confirming a Covenant = "tribulation" ??

 

 

So, if the Day of the Lord must occur after the rapture then seal 7 of rev 8 must be past the AoD point or the midpoint.

 

How can Seal 7 of Revelation 8:1 be past the Abomination of Desolation  when the "Tribulation Saints" just came out of "Great Tribulation" in Revelation 7:14 (In-between the 6th and 7th Seal)?? ...

 

(Revelation 7:14) "And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

 

and Christ said in Matthew 24:15-21 (See above) That After the Abomination of Desolation Then Great Tribulation.   Conundrum!

 

ps.  There was no "Rapture"..... those are Tribulation Saints....not "The Church".  If they were "The Church" then why didn't John know who they were and had to have one of the 24 Elders explain to him who they were??  Among 10other reasons why they're not "The Church"

 

 

So therefore the time of great tribulation must start at seal 4 and continue untill seal 6.

 

So between Seal 4 and Seal 6 is 3 1/2 years?

 

The Two Witnesses Prophesy the Whole of Tribulation.....

 

(Revelation 11:3) "And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth."

 

This verse is between the 6th and 7th Trumpet.   Conundrum!

 

Please show us the 2 Witnesses between the 4th and 6th Seal directly from Scripture?

 

Moreover, according to your thesis.....if the Great Tribulation "continues UNTIL or ends with the 6th Seal" then the Millennium should start in Chapter 7, because Matthew says....

 

(Matthew 24:29-30) "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:  {30}  And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

 

 

Do the Trumpets and Vials/Bowls occur in the Millennium?

[Montana Marv]

 

Matt 24:15 - So when you see standing in the holy place the A/D... v16 - Flee.   v21 - For then there will be great distress, unequaled form the beginning of the world until now..  So this great distress is great tribulation filled with great wrath.  The last 3 1/2 years will be ugly for those who live on this earth.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

Absolutley this is correct Marv.

 

But i dont think the great tribulation is filled with great wrath.

 

I believe that the great tribulation follows tribulation and then the day of the Lord starts (Gods wrath)

 

So, if the Day of the Lord must occur after the rapture then seal 7 of rev 8 must be past the AoD point or the midpoint.

 

So therefore the time of great tribulation must start at seal 4 and continue untill seal 6.

 

Do you differentiate between the Day of the Lord and the Great tribulation Marv?

 

Matt

 

The time of great distress, or great tribulation begins immediately after the A/D is set up. Per Matt 24:15-21.

 

Which Day of the Lord are you referring to;  2 Peter 3:10 - But the Day of the Lord will come like a thief.  The heavens will disappear with a roar, the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.  or Malachi 4:5 - See, I will send you the prophet Elijah before that great and dreadful day of the Lord comes.  2 Thes 2:2 - do not become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come.  1 Thes 5:2,3 - for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.  While people are saying peace and safety, destruction will come on them suddenly.... and they will not escape.  Joel 1:15 - Alas, for that day; For the day of the Lord is near, it will come like destruction from the Almighty.

 

1 Thes 5:9 - For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.  What does salvation in our Lord Jesus Christ mean;  What are the benefits?  What don't we get that those without salvation receive.  The wrath which we are saved from is the wrath of the Great White Throne Judgment, which all who do not have salvation in our Lord Jesus Christ will receive.

 

The day of the Lord in prophetic times will cover the time of the coming tribulation, and the reign of Christ on Davids Throne and will be brought to an end by the judgment of the Great White Throne and the completion of the New Heaven and the New Earth with the New Jerusalem.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Matt36]

 

 

Matt 24:15 - So when you see standing in the holy place the A/D... v16 - Flee.   v21 - For then there will be great distress, unequaled form the beginning of the world until now..  So this great distress is great tribulation filled with great wrath.  The last 3 1/2 years will be ugly for those who live on this earth.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

Absolutley this is correct Marv.

 

But i dont think the great tribulation is filled with great wrath.

 

I believe that the great tribulation follows tribulation and then the day of the Lord starts (Gods wrath)

 

So, if the Day of the Lord must occur after the rapture then seal 7 of rev 8 must be past the AoD point or the midpoint.

 

So therefore the time of great tribulation must start at seal 4 and continue untill seal 6.

 

Do you differentiate between the Day of the Lord and the Great tribulation Marv?

 

Matt

 

The time of great distress, or great tribulation begins immediately after the A/D is set up. Per Matt 24:15-21.

 

Which Day of the Lord are you referring to;  2 Peter 3:10 - But the Day of the Lord will come like a thief.  The heavens will disappear with a roar, the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.  or Malachi 4:5 - See, I will send you the prophet Elijah before that great and dreadful day of the Lord comes.  2 Thes 2:2 - do not become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come.  1 Thes 5:2,3 - for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.  While people are saying peace and safety, destruction will come on them suddenly.... and they will not escape.  Joel 1:15 - Alas, for that day; For the day of the Lord is near, it will come like destruction from the Almighty.

 

1 Thes 5:9 - For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.  What does salvation in our Lord Jesus Christ mean;  What are the benefits?  What don't we get that those without salvation receive.  The wrath which we are saved from is the wrath of the Great White Throne Judgment, which all who do not have salvation in our Lord Jesus Christ will receive.

 

The day of the Lord in prophetic times will cover the time of the coming tribulation, and the reign of Christ on Davids Throne and will be brought to an end by the judgment of the Great White Throne and the completion of the New Heaven and the New Earth with the New Jerusalem.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

 

Thanks for explaining this to me Marv.

 

OK, i wasnt aware that there is two Day of the Lords. If there is two then im referring to the one contained in the 70th week.

 

So it seems from your comments that you view the Day of the Lord will cover the time of the tribulation. Thanks for the clarification Marv.

 

I guess my issue would be that Matt24 and Luke 21 seem to say something different, that the Day of the Lord starts after the tribulation starts. These passages talk about two times. tribulation and great tribulation. But these events spoken of are only events described in revelation up until the 7th seal.

 

It is my view that the Day of the Lord begins on the 7th seal.

 

If we look at ^Matt24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: it appears that it speaks of Tribulation past tense. So there is tribulation right up to the 7th seal of revelation. It appears the context of the past tense tribulation is speaking of all the events spoken in Matt 24 up untill this point.

 

But then back in verse 21 it says, ²¹ For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. but this GREAT tribulation only appears to start AFTER the AoD is revealed. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place,

 

But my issue is that this Great tribulation has an end point as well,  ²² And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. And so the days of the Great tribulation ends, the Lord shortens the days. It appears that for the elects sake he raptures us out as we see in rev 7 which is just after the AoD is revealed. It appears to only speak of the time between the 6th and 7th seal because those events match rev 6-8.

 

The events of the Day of the Lord seem to start on seal 7 rev chap 8. This is the time that the Day of the Lord Starts. Because there is no speaking of the Lords wrath before this time. Tribulation however is something we are definitely appointed to.

 

I guess that the Day of the Lord and Great tribulation seem to have different start end points. This is how i see it anyway, im not saying im right and im open to listen to your view especially of you can show me from the scripture how another view may trump this view, all in the name of the truth bro. Thanks for replying

Edited April 27, 2014 by Matt36

[Matt36]

During the seventh seal the seven angels are given the trumpets and the bible is clear its at the last trump. After the seventh seal there are seven trumpet soundings.

You are correct Cletus about the last trump and hello by the way.

 

I guess my view is that the last trump may not be the trumpets mentioned in seal 7 as these are WRATH trumpets. The rapture i would say isnt an event that i would call wrath but salvation, or the finalising of it. If you read post 56 on page 3 you will see why i believe the rapture is in chap 7 of revelation and how all 7 seals match the events of Matt24

 

Thanks for the comment bro, i appreciate it.

Edited April 27, 2014 by Matt36

[Matt36]

What other trumpets are there in revelations? God is specific with His words.

Hi Cletus, well i will be honest, there are no other trumpets that are mentioned.

 

I guess that its entirely possible that the rapture trumpet isnt mentioned in rev

 

^rev11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

¹⁶ And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

¹⁷ Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

¹⁸ And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

¹⁹ And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

 

Taking a look however at the 7th trumpet it appears to be a judgement as it appears that something has happened to the nations as they are angry with him. I find it difficult to see they would be angree over raptured saints but rather happy about this. there is also no mention of the saints or a rapture.

 

My view is that the rapture is in chapter 7 which matches Matt 24 and is in seal 6 but before seal 7

[Enoch2021]

During the seventh seal the seven angels are given the trumpets and the bible is clear its at the last trump. After the seventh seal there are seven trumpet soundings.

 

 

What's @ the Last Trump...."The Rapture"? .....

 

(1 Corinthians 15:52) "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

 

But.....

 

(Revelation 11:15) "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

 

BUT!!....

 

"The Rapture" Trump is the Trump of GOD, not the 7th Angel Trumpet:

 

(1 Thessalonians 4:16) "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:"

 

Specific Enough?

 

There is No Rapture in Revelation...."The Church" is gone before the 70th Week of Daniel.  The 24 Elders = "The Church" is already in Heaven when John Arrives. 

[Matt36]

That is very possible God hasnt given me any revelations on chapter 7, well not enough to speak on. However the book of revelations jumps around. If you read in matt 24 it speaks of the beginnging of sorrows. If you study this term it literaly means labor pains. Now look to chapter 12 in revelations and you see a woman giving birth to a man child. This is where the break is from begining of sorrows to great trib and it runs the same in both books. The seals have tribulations going on as well as the trumpets. However its the vials thats the final judgments. Take a look at revelations 15:8 where it says

and the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from His power, AND NO MAN WAS ABLE TO ENTER INTO THE TEMPLE, till the plagues of the seven angels were fufilled. This is right after the rapture or Christs second coming or whatever you would like to call it. We know this from scripture refrences 1 kings 8:10, 11, also Ex. 40:34-38, and Isiah 6:1-4.

Basicly what this is saying is the mercy seat is no longer accesable and no one may enter the temple as well as no futher petitions or prayers will be heard until the final judgment is complete.

 

 

Hi Cletus thanks for posting.

 

The beginning of sorrows in Matt 24 appears to self interpret.

 

Matt24:1And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

² And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

³ And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

⁴ And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

⁵ For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

⁶ And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

⁷ For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

⁸ All these are the beginning of sorrows.

 

And so we see that the beginning of sorrows are these,

 

1.False Christs (Seal 1 rev 6:1)

2.Wars and rumors of wars (Seal 2 rev 6:4)

3. famines and pestilences ( Seal 3 rev 6.6)

4. Earthquakes (Seal 6 rev 6:12)

 

So when we see these things, these indicate the beginning of sorrows. These things are contained in the first 6 seals but in seal 7 the Day of the Lord starts as its the first mention of Gods wrath in action. So for me i guess that the beginning of sorrows represents birth pangs untill that great and terrible Day of the Lord begins.

 

I tend to agree with you assertion that, "the mercy seat is no longer accessible and no one may enter the temple as well as no further petitions or prayers will be heard until the final judgment is complete".

 

Rev 15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

² And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

³ And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

⁴ Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.

⁵ And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:

⁶ And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.

⁷ And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.

⁸ And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

 

However i think that there isnt really a rapture mentioned here. If verse 2 is your rapture verse then i can see how you come to this conclusion. My view of this verse is that they had overcome though martyrdom. These had been killed for their faith just as the earlier church members had in rev 7. The difference in rev 7 is that there are so many of them and from every part of the earth and language, so many that no man could number them, that i believe that most of these were raptured out before the Day of the Lord started on chapter 8 on the 7th seal.

 

Now im not saying im right but this is where i am at at the moment and im open to other views if it can be shown to be sound biblicaly. Thanks for your reply Cletus.

 

Just for the record, heres a little more reading to help you understand from my view how the events of Matt24 fit into revelation. Feel free to pick this apart using scripture. Im open to know the truth and i am interested in your view. See below. (Ive copy/paste from post 56)

 

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1st seal (False christs)

Matt24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.⁵ For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Rev 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

This i see as the Antichrist going forth deceiving.

 

2nd seal (wars)

^Matt24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars:

^Rev6:4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

 

3rd seal (famines)

^Matt24:7 .... and there shall be famines,

^Rev6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

 

4th seal (killed and hated)

^Matt24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

^Rev6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Beasts should be translated as "beast" as in the antichrist.

 

5th seal (Death)

^Matt24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place,(Mid point of the 7 years of tribulation) (whoso readeth, let him understand:).......²¹ For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.²² And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

^Dan11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.³² And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.³³ And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.³⁴ Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.³⁵ And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed. (Dan11 shows how matt24 and Rev 6 tie in timewise)

^Rev6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:¹⁰ And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?¹¹ And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

 

6th seal (Sun moon stars)

^Matt24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Or Luke reads as: ^{Luke 21:25} And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;²⁶ Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.²⁷ And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.²⁸ And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. (Get ready to be raptured. Told to look up for this as this point which is after the mid point of the trib now)

^Rev6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;¹³ And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.¹⁴ And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.¹⁷ For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?(About to begin the Day of the Lord)

 

Interlude. Rapture!

^Matt24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.³¹ And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

^Rev7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;¹⁰ And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.¹¹ And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,¹² Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.¹³ And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?¹⁴ And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

 

7th seal (Wrath of God) Remember Rev 6:17 said that the wrath of God is about to be released.

^Matt24:37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.³⁸ For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,³⁹ And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. (Matt speaks of the Son of Man coming, we have seen this happens just as the Day of the Lord starts. Rev 8 shows the first Day of the day of the Lord.)

Rev 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.² And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.³ And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.⁴ And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.⁵ And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.⁶ And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.⁷ The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

 

So, we see how letting scripture interpret scripture we can see the following:

1. How the 7 seals match to Matt 24

2. The timing of the rapture. ( Some time after the mid point of the trib)

3. That the Day of the Lord immediatly preceeds the rapture.

4. How beleivers suffer Satans wrath in the tribulation but are removed before God wrath on the Day of the Lord.

[Hindsfeet]

What other trumpets are there in revelations? God is specific with His words.

 

The Feast of Trumpets (Rosh Hoshana)  is a fall Holy Day in which trumpets are blown - this is an alternate view for the 'last trump'. There are still 3 Feasts yet to be fulfilled, Trumpets being one of them.

[Spock]

What other trumpets are there in revelations? God is specific with His words.

 

The Feast of Trumpets (Rosh Hoshana)  is a fall Holy Day in which trumpets are blown - this is an alternate view for the 'last trump'. There are still 3 Feasts yet to be fulfilled, Trumpets being one of them.

Excellent excellent answer. I think one would have to know a bit about Jewish worship and feast days (numbers 23) to fully understand this. My advice-go visit a messianic synagogue during the Feast of the Trumpets to see for yourself.

[Spock]

General Timeline is not as hard as some are making it to be:

1. Daniels 70th week begins

2. Seal judgments begin

3. Abomination of desolation (mid point of Daniels week)

4. Rapture-general harvest

5. Trumpet and bowl judgments (wrath of God)

6. Christ returns at Armageddon wipeout

7. Millennial reign commences

Note: of course, I believe a Philadelphia church rapture precedes step one, only for the faithful watching ready 10% or so of the church.

Note 2: if you want specifics please go to "April's new thread discussion winner" - A different end times scenario to discuss - for much more. (As voted by my wife)