Lottery Tickets

[OakWood]

My father nearly went to jail because of gambling, I thought I'd mention that.

He taught me not to do it. Lottery tickets he declared, were the exception, providing you buy one and one only!

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

 

 

just curious, hippie, as to what percentage the "house" makes on movie tickets/popcorn/sodas..... as opposed to how much the consumer gets in return?

Those two are not a similar comparison.....a movie ..you are paying for goods and services. In a gambling situation you are playing in the hopes of getting more money.....I also stated do as you wish, I simply won't as I have stated why in my previous post. Just noting that 70% of all the people that go in .. don't win.....100% loss...and that the proceeds do not just go to above the table, legal profit areas.

 

 

you're falling into the same mistake shiloh made earlier, assuming that anyone who is gambling is doing so in hopes of winning money. there are a whole lot of people, myself included, who know that the odds are never in our favor, but who occasionally enjoy gambling as a form of entertainment. in that sense, it is identical to someone who goes into a movie theater, spending some money for a couple of hours of entertainment.

 

and really, no matter where we choose to spend money, we have no idea where some of the profit goes. the local grocery store might be funding terrorist cells. the mom-and-pop candy store might be dealing drugs from the back room. i have no proof that casino money is being used illegally. i can assume that is probably true, but i don't know it, nor can anyone prove it. i do know that a lot of the profits go to legitimate and good causes, though, and i know that first-hand.

 

anyway, my point that i'd like you to receive is that not all people who "gamble" do so for greedy reasons. sometimes it really is just to spend a few hours having some fun. and christians should be careful of assuming they know the intent of a person's heart.

 

I never stated it was played only for greed.....but that it was played for the hope of more money.....whether it's greed or not is another level of play/intent/action/reaction.....but in all gambling....you play to win money. My statement that I would like you to receive is ....that it is played for the hope to win and that playing is totally up to you or whomever else and if convicted about playing...don't.

 

then that would mean that i am personally lying when i say that when i do occasionally gamble, i don't go in it with the hope of winning more money. i go in with the hope of enjoying a few minutes or hours (depending on whether i start with a buck or a 20). 

 

i promise, i'm not lying. therefore, your assumption that "it was played for the hope of more money" is incorrect. i'm not trying to belittle you hippie, or to beat you up or anything else. i'm just trying to get across the point that when ANYone assigns a motivation to another for their actions, it is making an assumption about the intent of that person's heart.... and as christians, we are not permitted to do that, because only God can see the intent of the heart. when we apply our own human logic to another's actions, we fall into a trap that is both judgmental and sinful.

 

playing for "hope of more money" and playing for entertainment are two very different things.... and both are valid reasons why some people buy lottery tickets or play poker (or any other form of gambling.)

 

not trying to force my views on you, just trying to broaden yours so that your view doesn't paint a picture of me.

 

You're not lying.  You're just not typical.

[Guest LadyC]

I am finding this thread to be rather fascinating...

 

We go to a lot of concerts at the casinos here in central Oklahoma and part of the time when we get there early I will put a five in the slot machnes and see how long it takes me to use it all up......   it is quite entertaining....   out of all the times we've done that I think I had more than five dollars when the concert started.

 

I know a lot of people who frequent the slot machines and I don't think any of them expect to win long term......   and it is really interesting to watch people while we wait for the shows to start.

 

If you want to see real serious gambling addictions you need to go to horse races.....  

 

slot machines over the life of the machine keep from ten to fifteen percent of the money put into them.   There are state regulations here as to the amount that they can legally keep.   I've seen data showing as much as 90% pay backs on the slot machines..... 

 

So when one does go to the casino and wins for the night, they are just winning money that someone else has lost......     I have friends who brag about how much they have won on a weekend, but you can't get them into a conversation about how many weekends there are in between the wins..      Most everyone I know don't expect to win gambling unless they play cards......    and some of them are very very good.   And when they get very very very good, the casinos will not let them play.

 

 

In reading this thread it seems to me that some here don't really have a grasp on why most people to to casinos....   it is very true that there are some people who spend money there that they shouldn't........    but those kinds of people tend to waste their money on something whether it's gambling, cars, airplanes, boats or whatnot......

if you want to talk about a money loosing hobby get into a real discussion with someone who owns a boat or two, or an airplane....      both in the general sense are used for pleasure and I don't see any difference in spending a hundred dollars in a weekend in slot machines, or filling up the gas tank on my pontoon boat.......   either is for personal pleasure.....    and my boat has zero percent change of giving any of that hundred dollars back.  Maybe a few pounds of fish.......   I can assure you that it's much cheaper at Red Lobster.

 

hey, that is a valid point you made, about going to see concerts in a casino. i'm not sure how it is in other casino cities, but i know in vegas, you can do almost nothing without entering a casino to do it. almost all movie theaters, concert venues, sporting arenas, bowling alleys, video arcades and live shows are held within the walls of a casino. and almost everywhere ELSE that one would go that is NOT in a casino, contains a casino. the airport has slot machines everywhere. the grocery stores, convenience stores, and even some department stores have small casino areas in the front area of the store.... i suppose so that the husbands have something to do while the wives go shopping. and except for fast food chains, most restaurants have at least slot machines in them. you can't go anywhere without the familiar ding-ding-ding of a slot machine. let me tell you, moving back to texas was quite a culture shock! the silence i'd encounter when going into a gas station was deafening!

 

anyway, yes..... spending a few bucks while waiting for a show was the most typical example of gambling i ran across in vegas. not the only one, of course.... but the most common one. 

 

for what it's worth, while living there i probably spent about $50 or less per month on gambling. since leaving there, i've spent a grand total of $10, and that was a few weeks ago as we passed through louisiana returning from my daughter's college graduation in florida. not so problematic LOL. but it sure was nice to get out of the car after 8 hours of driving and relax for a few minutes.

[Guest LadyC]

 

 

 

 

 

just curious, hippie, as to what percentage the "house" makes on movie tickets/popcorn/sodas..... as opposed to how much the consumer gets in return?

Those two are not a similar comparison.....a movie ..you are paying for goods and services. In a gambling situation you are playing in the hopes of getting more money.....I also stated do as you wish, I simply won't as I have stated why in my previous post. Just noting that 70% of all the people that go in .. don't win.....100% loss...and that the proceeds do not just go to above the table, legal profit areas.

 

 

you're falling into the same mistake shiloh made earlier, assuming that anyone who is gambling is doing so in hopes of winning money. there are a whole lot of people, myself included, who know that the odds are never in our favor, but who occasionally enjoy gambling as a form of entertainment. in that sense, it is identical to someone who goes into a movie theater, spending some money for a couple of hours of entertainment.

 

and really, no matter where we choose to spend money, we have no idea where some of the profit goes. the local grocery store might be funding terrorist cells. the mom-and-pop candy store might be dealing drugs from the back room. i have no proof that casino money is being used illegally. i can assume that is probably true, but i don't know it, nor can anyone prove it. i do know that a lot of the profits go to legitimate and good causes, though, and i know that first-hand.

 

anyway, my point that i'd like you to receive is that not all people who "gamble" do so for greedy reasons. sometimes it really is just to spend a few hours having some fun. and christians should be careful of assuming they know the intent of a person's heart.

 

I never stated it was played only for greed.....but that it was played for the hope of more money.....whether it's greed or not is another level of play/intent/action/reaction.....but in all gambling....you play to win money. My statement that I would like you to receive is ....that it is played for the hope to win and that playing is totally up to you or whomever else and if convicted about playing...don't.

 

then that would mean that i am personally lying when i say that when i do occasionally gamble, i don't go in it with the hope of winning more money. i go in with the hope of enjoying a few minutes or hours (depending on whether i start with a buck or a 20). 

 

i promise, i'm not lying. therefore, your assumption that "it was played for the hope of more money" is incorrect. i'm not trying to belittle you hippie, or to beat you up or anything else. i'm just trying to get across the point that when ANYone assigns a motivation to another for their actions, it is making an assumption about the intent of that person's heart.... and as christians, we are not permitted to do that, because only God can see the intent of the heart. when we apply our own human logic to another's actions, we fall into a trap that is both judgmental and sinful.

 

playing for "hope of more money" and playing for entertainment are two very different things.... and both are valid reasons why some people buy lottery tickets or play poker (or any other form of gambling.)

 

not trying to force my views on you, just trying to broaden yours so that your view doesn't paint a picture of me.

 

You're not lying.  You're just not typical.

 

 

having lived in a gambling mecca, i can say that of all the people i knew over a decade of time, i was actually quite typical. drug abuse seems to be a more prevalent problem in cities that promote gambling than gambling itself seems to be. 

 

those who do have gambling problems that destroy homes and families are definitely a factor. no doubt about it. but you really don't see nearly as much of that as you do other destructive problems.... and those that do usually have a variety of addictions that feed on each other (i.e. spend half your money getting high, lose track of time trying to win back what you just blew on dope, tip big for the free drinks to keep them flowing in a timely manner, and then try to come up with believable (ha) lies as to where your time and paycheck went when you have nothing left to buy diapers with. oh yes, i've known my share of those people too. babysat for one for a few weeks, til i got tired of watching kids for free. 

 

but those are the exception, not the rule.

[GoldenEagle]

Shiloh here's the progression of what you've said in this thread. First two pages of the thread.

Personal preference in red below... Gambling is an inconvinience to you... Personal preference. (By the way I do find it annoying to wait a convinence store as well. That's why I usually just pay with a card at the pump.)

 

Buying a lottery ticket is an irresponsible use of one's money.  I hate standing in line at the convenience store trying to pay for gas while someone is wasting time trying to pick out which lottery tickets they want to buy.  It would be nice if they had some kind of lottery vending machine to free up employees to deal with customers who simply want to pay for their gas and go.

 

 

You know a lot about the effects of gambling so either you have had experience with or know someone who's life has been destroyed by it. Not sure how familiar you are with alcoholism. But as someone who has seen alcoholism destroy lives (a very good friend) I can tell you that the difference from gambling excessively is not very much.

 

Gambling is different.  It's not the same kind of addiction.  You get pulled into it and you can't stop.  In gambling, you are lured in, they give you free drinks, and few freebies, and they let you win the first few times to get you hooked.  Gambling involves entrapment in a way that drinking doesn't.  

 

 

Actually you don't know people's motivation in gambling. You do presume to know their motivation. Not everyone expects to get rich. Sure they wouldn't mind it but many just realize it's entertainment.

 

In gambling {as opposed to Raffle Tickets}, it is the love of money, the desire to hit the jackpot, and you are lured into continuing to spend all you have for the chance to get rich.  In a raffle, there isn't the ongoing temptations associated with gambling.

 

 

 

Here you say gambling is a sin... Again. Just because it has the potential to harm doesn't make it a sin. Sorry. Again you claimed this. The burden of proof is on you to prove it with Scripture.

 

Gambling is a sin because of what it does people or can potentially do to them. It is self-destructive in almost every area of a person's life.   And just because some people beat the odds doesn't mean that it is acceptable.

God bless,

GE

[Guest shiloh357]

As to #1… No you didn’t say all people who gamble end up with their lives destroyed. But it is certainly implied here where you say that “Gambling is self destructive. not opinion and there are many sad, broken people who lost their homes and their families because of it.  That is also fact.   I don't have to show you a verse that gambling is a sin.  The self-destruction it causes in people's lives is enough to show it is a sin.”

 

That is an implication you are assigning to me.  It is self-destructive and there are plenty of broken lives to support that assertion.

 

No, to use your own line of thinking you've presented many times on the boards, you presented something as fact. The burden of proof is on you to back your statement. Not on anyone else to prove another point (molestation of a baby for example). If you cannot back your statement up with Scripture than it is just a personal conviction or personal preference. Sorry brother.

 

1.  Gambling is self-destructive  

http://www.addictiontreatmentmagazine.com/addiction/gambling-addiction/alcohol-drugs/

 

http://www.math.byu.edu/~jarvis/gambling/gambling/gambling-article.html

 

2. You are wrong.  The point I made about molestation is that if I challenged you to provide a Scripture to prove molestation is a sin, you would not be able to provide it.,  Yet you could still make the argument that it is wrong based on the personal destructiveness of that sin.   So it is a little hypocritical of you to demand of me what you know isn't mentioned directly in the Bible.   The huge flaw in your reasoning is that I can show that gambling is a sin based on the fruit it produces.  That all on its own condemns gambling as a sin even if you can't bring yourself to face the truth.

 

Notice as well there’s no exceptions to your statements. Notice too there’s no room to disagree with you as you stand on "the side with the facts" (no evidence which has been presented to back your argument). Anyone who disagrees with you is wrong apparently. Now, given your experience as you see others lives ruined because of it I can see your distaste for gambling. Perhaps this is even a struggle for you or someone you love.

 

fortunately, no one in family has that monkey on their back.  However, casinos all over this country are known to be involved in organized crime, countless lives are destroyed, families are torn apart and the personal destructiveness is so bad and it outstrips alcoholism as the chief addiction in this country.   There are  kinds of rehab facilities and programs for gambling addicts.

 

No one goes into gambling wanting to be addicted and wanting to destroy their lives.  No one gets involved in any kind of sin thinking that they will be one of the statistics, but all too often it happens.  Lot's people think they are in control and they don't realize how deep they have gotten into it until it is too late.

 

 

But it is not a struggle for everyone.

 

No, but that doesn't justify it, either.  That isn't a defense.  There are all kinds of people who enjoy per-marital sex and so far haven't harvested the fruit of it yet. Doesn't mean a thing.

 

I have enjoyed playing poker primarily online for years though with kids I've kind of given up that hobby. Only one time did I play for money. It was an entrance fee for $50 or 60. It was fun. I'm not a gambling addict

 

Well... not yet, at least.

[Guest shiloh357]

You know a lot about the effects of gambling so either you have had experience with or know someone who's life has been destroyed by it. Not sure how familiar you are with alcoholism. But as someone who has seen alcoholism destroy lives (a very good friend) I can tell you that the difference from gambling excessively is not very much.

 

No personal experience on my part at all.   I am going off of the facts that are out there for everyone to see.   Gambling addictions are surpassing alcoholism as our nations chief addiction.  Thanks to the fact that gambling is more accessible than ever, things are only going to get worse.

 

Actually you don't know people's motivation in gambling. You do presume to know their motivation. Not everyone expects to get rich. Sure they wouldn't mind it but many just realize it's entertainment.

 

It always starts out that way.  Just a little fun here and there.  No one goes into something like gambling asking for an addiction.

 

Here you say gambling is a sin... Again. Just because it has the potential to harm doesn't make it a sin

 

Yes it does.   Again, beating your wife isn't directly prohibited anywhere in the Bible, but I can we look at fruit of it and see why we call it a sin.

 

Sorry. Again you claimed this. The burden of proof is on you to prove it with Scripture.

 

That is a faulty line of reasoning and I have proven why.  The Bible doesn't list EVERY sin a person can possibly commit.  I don't  have to have chapter and verse to prove the sinfulness of something.  It's all in the fruit.

 

Appears to me like a desperate attempt at trying rationalize away your participation in a self-destructive activity. 

[Guest LadyC]

is gambling really "self destructive"? 

 

i don't think so. PEOPLE are self-destructive. what they use as a means to destroy themselves varies from person to person. it may be gambling. it may be drugs. it may be alcohol. it may be the stock market. it may be something nobody would blink twice at.

 

gambling is not a more prevalent problem than drug or alcohol abuse. just because there are gambling programs to help those with addictions doesn't make it a "bigger" problem. that's actually laughable. i'd like to see some data on the number of one addict vs another. 

 

by the way, telling GE "well, at least not yet anyway" is very much as judgmental as when a similar implication was made regarding me, and again regarding patriot's friend. it's that underlying assumption that everyone who ever gambles is going to become an addict and/or is not willing to admit their own problem. tsk tsk.

[Guest LadyC]

 

 

No personal experience on my part at all.   I am going off of the facts that are out there for everyone to see.   Gambling addictions are surpassing alcoholism as our nations chief addiction.  Thanks to the fact that gambling is more accessible than ever, things are only going to get worse.

 

show those facts, please.

[Guest LadyC]

and if i may, regarding the whole straw-man argument that the bible doesn't prohibit child molestation or wife beating.... that's not true at all. the bible is full of commands to not harm a child. it's full of commands to love your neighbor as yourself. it's full of commands for husbands and wives to treat one another with love, respect and compassion. physical abuse is directly contrary to those commands.