Cross Reference Posted June 21, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 192 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 32 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/12/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 21, 2014 The basic meaning of temptation (peirasmos) is simply to test or prove, and has no negative connotation. Whether it becomes a proof of righteousness or an inducement to evil simply depends on our response. I believe it would depend on who is doing the tempting, i.e., is it God, Self, or Satan? The outcome will reveal who [still] has our allegiance. Even with Jesus was this so since what He possessed of the Father was, nevertheless in promise form for which He was to be proven. He 'learned obedience by the written word of God'. "Self" began its work after Holy Spirit lead/drove Jesus into the wilderness and left Him alone to hunger. Jesus won the victory over Self, however, God then allowed Satan to come against Jesus to do his thing. Jesus won the victory against him, as well. In all of this was it allowed of God to be no different than how God handled Abraham: "And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am. And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of". Genesis 22:1-2 (KJV) There can no question Abraham was approached by Satan in an attempt to create doubt with the words "Hath God said?" - - with Abraham replying, "Yes! God hath said!" __ and it was counted unto him as righteousness! Promises were made to both men. Abraham, we have the history that revels the fulfillment. Jesus, we have "And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory". Mark 13:26 (KJV) Re, The Lords Prayer: "find nothing in me to censure that you should lead me into temptation to be proven, but, deliver me from the evil one". Its not about obedience...It's about endurence One point at time, Bro.. It is not about endurance for success or failure but most importantly, success. Success brings the fulfillment. Obedience is to belief God or, go my own way when the problem, purposed by Him is presented me. Remember the 10 spies and the result of their unbelief? "Success in believing" would have allowed the children to enter the "promised land". Then we can formulate the following to approach temptation: Obedience is faith in Success of a temptation Endurance is the physical participation in faith to achieve the success through temptation Success is the end result or escape of the temptation to justify a fulfillment and who said we are not made righteous by our works? Consider Innocent, sinless, Adam. Do you believe he fits your "summation". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Reference Posted June 21, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 192 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 32 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/12/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 21, 2014 (edited) Adam and Eve had no such inclinations. They were innocent, remember? I'll give you two outta three. Want to try again? Edited June 21, 2014 by Cross Reference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Reference Posted June 21, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 192 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 32 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/12/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 21, 2014 Cross Reference I'll give you two outta three. Want to try again? Your 2 out of 3 would be based on your assumption or interpretation of you understanding of Adam and Eve. My assumption and interpretation is based on what was Adam and Eves fulfillment. In other words what was their mission. What was their mission? They had no mission. Since it isn't Biblical, may I ask where are you getting that 'reasoning' and what denominational persuasion you are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Reference Posted June 22, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 192 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 32 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/12/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 22, 2014 (edited) God told adam and eve to multiply... have children. Adam was to tend the garden also. Eve was to help Adam. I think that was thier mission. Not sure mission would be the best term to use but thats the best I got. If it was received by them as a "mission" then giving due diligence would have been their "mission" in performing it rather than how the account reads. Adam was given a promise contingent upon obedience. He disobeyed. His disobedience, however, never interfered with any perceived "mission". Guaranteed, the "mission" was accomplished, but now had to be redeemed. Edited June 22, 2014 by Cross Reference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Reference Posted June 22, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 192 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 32 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/12/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 22, 2014 (edited) Cross Reference If it was received by them as a "mission" then giving due diligence would have been their "mission" in performing it rather than how the account reads. But that's exactly how the account reads, you forget their motivation came from their Godly souls. Adam was given a promise contingent upon obedience. He disobeyed. His disobedience, however, never interfered with any perceived "mission" Because the "mission" which is the fulfillment is still the promise, the promise didn't become obsolete because Adam and Eve chose between one holiness and another. God told adam and eve to multiply... have children. Adam was to tend the garden also. Eve was to help Adam. I think that was thier mission. Not sure mission would be the best term to use but thats the best I got. My reply, to cletus, was this: If it was received by them as a "mission" then giving due diligence would have been their "mission" in performing it rather than how the account reads. Adam was given a promise contingent upon obedience. He disobeyed. His disobedience, however, never interfered with any perceived "mission". Guaranteed, the "mission" was accomplished, but now had to be redeemed. This from you is doesn't connect the dots: "But that's exactly how the account reads, you forget their motivation came from their Godly souls". What "Godly souls" do you suppose they possessed when they were purposed by God to become Holy by incarnation????? "Because the "mission" which is the *fulfillment is still the promise, the promise didn't become obsolete because Adam and Eve chose between one holiness and another." The "promise" was for him to have dominion over all earth, period. God revealed nothing more to him and left him alone to prove his allegiance. The *fulfillment will be when all the earth is "filled with the glory of the Lord by a vast family of redeemed Sons with Jesus as "Head".. "Ill give you a clue...what is it that we all desire? Its the same thing that Eve and Satan desired. In fact God went as far as sending us Jesus Christ so we may fulfill this desire. It's got everything to do with being biblical. Please dont tell me it's just eternal life its more than that and it ties in with everything we have been discussing and on the innocence of Adam and Eve" Tell me more. Let's compare notes. "Procreating and laboring in the soil is just part of the journey its not the fulfillment" Never said it was. However, I did imply procreation continues but needed redeeming. Enter Jesus Christ. "To answer your other question...I dont belong to any denomination" OK. So who you reading? Edited June 22, 2014 by Cross Reference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Reference Posted June 22, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 192 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 32 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/12/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 22, 2014 (edited) Cross Reference What "Godly souls" do you suppose they possessed when they were purposed by God to become Holy by incarnation????? If they had no Godly soul how could they have been in the garden of Eden in the first place? The "promise" was for him to have dominion over all earth, period. God revealed nothing more to him and left him alone to prove his allegiance. That's not the entire picture The *fulfillment will be when all the earth is "filled with the glory of the Lord by a vast family of redeemed Sons with Jesus as "Head".. That's not the entire picture again...you getting close so I can give you a point for it Tell me more. Let's compare notes. I gave you the clue, if your truly struggling with this then I shell tell you...but its really not difficult OK. So who you reading? The Bible...I gave you the clue, if you go to the bible Ill make it even more easier for you...why was Satan kicked out of Heaven? and its the same thing we see here in Gen 3:5 "For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." Now theres three words in Gen 3:5 I'm looking for I am not struggling. If you say it is only the Bible you are reading, may I suggest that you turn it right side up? You cannot find, except to conjecture, anywhere in it pages that says more than what is stated,i.e., Be fruitful, multiply and, one command, don't eat of that tree. That's it. Edited June 22, 2014 by Cross Reference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Reference Posted June 22, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 192 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 32 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/12/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 22, 2014 Cross Reference What "Godly souls" do you suppose they possessed when they were purposed by God to become Holy by incarnation????? If they had no Godly soul how could they have been in the garden of Eden in the first place? Why not? Was not innocence a sufficient qualification for the Federal head of the human race?? Pretty nice perk, I would say. The "promise" was for him to have dominion over all earth, period. God revealed nothing more to him and left him alone to prove his allegiance. That's not the entire picture The *fulfillment will be when all the earth is "filled with the glory of the Lord by a vast family of redeemed Sons with Jesus as "Head".. That's not the entire picture again...you getting close so I can give you a point for it Tell me more. Let's compare notes. I gave you the clue, if your truly struggling with this then I shell tell you...but its really not difficult OK. So who you reading? The Bible...I gave you the clue, if you go to the bible Ill make it even more easier for you...why was Satan kicked out of Heaven? and its the same thing we see here in Gen 3:5 "For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." Now theres three words in Gen 3:5 I'm looking for I am not struggling. If you say it is only the Bible you are reading, may I suggest that you turn it right side up? You cannot find, except to conjecture, anywhere in it pages that says more than what is stated,i.e., Be fruitful, multiply and, one command, don't eat of that tree. That's it. Who told you that when all Satan was trying to do was get her to doubt God so she eat of what, no doubt was a beautiful fruit. '. . Hath God said you will surely die?' It wasn't about her wanting to be like God. "We will get to "thats it" in a little bit...the three words I was looking for "was like God" that is what our fulfillment is, it is why also Satan was cast out of Heaven, it was why eve ate the apple and it is why Jesus Came to earth." Being like God is not sinful...cheating to be like God is sinful, because your twisting desire into lust...that is why Satan was cast out of Heaven ( nothing wrong for Satan to be like God, however to cause mutiny so you can try overthrough God or brag that he is "the" God is sinful = wrong motivation) And wrong conclusion. Eve possessed no intimate relationship with God as Lucifer to suggest such a motivation. Eve sinned before she even ate the apple ( she desired to be like God - nothing wrong with that, cheating or trying to find a shortcut to be like God is = wrong motivation), Negative! Thinking and doing is not the same thing. Wouldn't you have concluded it differently had she only thought about it but then, obeyed? Did not even Jesus have to "overcome" His temptations? That is why when you look back at the three temptations that Jesus went through one of the temptations was to "cheat" shortcut manipulate to rule the world, would of been sinful = wrong motivation) But all were temptations spoken to Him for His consideration. How did He overcome whereas Eve could be persuaded not to partake? This question deserves an answer. Eating the apple was a by product,the motivation to eat the apple was the "sin", Eve already "sinned" before she ate the apple. Nope. Wrong. Sin only couching at the door is not consummated until let in. Being subjected to vanity is not being subjected to sin. By all accounts God should of killed Adam and Eve straight away but he didn't. He couldn't God wants us to be like Him, to have his attributes to fill my fathers shoes so to speak, this is why Jesus came because he was like God, he was God in the flesh, he had the attributes like God and Jesus showed us how to be Like our Father....I desire to be like my Father, like Jesus showed Then He couldn't have been God when tempted, could He? "Dont eat of that Tree" Was a choice between morality or life. God wanted Adam and Eve to learn morality so that they can be like God one day in God's way...Satan manipulated the test that God gave and offered a shortcut to wanting to be like God, wanted to be like our father....we are now faced with the same choice but in the reverse, we are still eating from the tree of morality wanting to desire life - Jesus. To be like our father, however this is the test we can not cheat. "Morality of life"? Morality is life. Adam was created innocent. By a series of moral choices he would have been incarnated by the Word, as in "The Word made flesh". How? By eating of the "Tree of Life". Why was he kicked out of the garden? "that's it" The story of Adam and Eve is far complicated than it seems, in fact its extremely complicated, Not really. It's very simple to understand if you lay aside all the stuff you want to factor in that has no bearing on anything __ if you read your Bible correctly. However, I can agree with your conclusion because I see John 17:3 providing for it in __ promise form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Reference Posted June 22, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 192 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 32 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/12/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 22, 2014 Please don't blame if you can't figure out my posts. This "IPB skin by IPBForumSkins Community Forum Software by IP.Board is the "pits". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Reference Posted June 22, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 192 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 32 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/12/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 22, 2014 (edited) God told adam and eve to multiply... have children. Adam was to tend the garden also. Eve was to help Adam. I think that was thier mission. Not sure mission would be the best term to use but thats the best I got. If it was received by them as a "mission" then giving due diligence would have been their "mission" in performing it rather than how the account reads. Adam was given a promise cntingent upon obedience. He disobeyed. His disobedience, however, never interfered with any perceived "mission". Guaranteed, the "mission" was accomplished, but now had to be redeemed. First off, I like your screen name. A lot. Secondly, I am wondering what it was Adam was promised. my mind Is drawing a blank. and also i look at it like this.... adam and eve did not have knowledge of good and evil so it isnt like they knew it was a lie. The hebrew word for the tree of knowledge of good and evil literaly means to close or fasten the eyes... therefore the serpents lie was by eating the fruit that closes or fastens the eyes your eyes will be opened. it was like stealing candy from a baby. Hi Cletus! Thank you! The promise to Adam was dominion over the earth. God gave him everything except divinity. The proviso that, had it been obeyed, would have secured to him the indwelling of the Word of God; incarnation of the Godhead. Adam would have become God in glorified flesh and bone AND blood, able to procreate a vast family of sons for God __ Satan of course, being defeated. [that is the short version, there is more] Question: Why did God not want Adam to eat of the tree of knowledge except Adam was not prepared to handle ALL of the knowledge, the full swing of the pendulum, between good or evil. He would have been like a bull in a china shop. Now, ponder that to apply it to a new born Christian __ Is he ready to handle the Glory of God? Was Jesus, from His natural birth? And the new born Christian, from his Spiritual birth? . . . . When was God satisfied that He called Jesus His "only begotten son"? When do you suppose he would be satisfied to call any of us His son? Edited June 22, 2014 by Cross Reference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Reference Posted June 22, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 192 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 32 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/12/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 22, 2014 (edited) Cross ref, I am not sure I agree with you on dominion being a promise. Not to say you are wrong, just I am unsure about that. Reason being is that in genisis 1:28 it says ... God said unto them be fruitful and multiply, and replinish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the foul of the air, and over every living thing upon the earth. I see tjat as accomplished today. Man hunts fishes or traps animals for food and other animals are protected by mans laws. Also the earth has been populated by man so man has subdued it. Personally I dont see that as a promise but rather a command. The word used by someone else which I copied was mission. Cross ref, I am not sure I agree with you on dominion being a promise. Not to say you are wrong, just I am unsure about that. Reason being is that in genisis 1:28 it says ... God said unto them be fruitful and multiply, and replinish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the foul of the air, and over every living thing upon the earth. I see tjat as accomplished today. Man hunts fishes or traps animals for food and other animals are protected by mans laws. Also the earth has been populated by man so man has subdued it. Personally I dont see that as a promise but rather a command. The word used by someone else which I copied was mission. Only one command__ don't eat of that tree. Adam forfeited what was gifted him by disobedience. Obviously then, what he was gifted was on the condition of his obedience __ a promise that would have otherwise been fulfilled. Another good example of this is the promise made to the children of Israel before they ever left Egypt. Can you say what it was and why God didn't effect the fulfillment of it for forty years? Edited June 22, 2014 by Cross Reference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts