Scripture threatens loss of salvation

[Osterloh]

Don't ridicule the simple truth of God's salvation message. A child can understand it. 

Jesus took ALL our sin, it is not imputed to us.

 

Upon becoming a BAC, Jesus' righteousness was imputed to us!

Then lo and behold, we are required to maintain that righteousness!

 

Let’s start here … with the definition of WHO is righteous ...

“… let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous” (1 John 3:7)

And note … only BACs are capable of being righteous:

“… you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.” (1 John 2:29)

And note ... the reverse of the above verse is not true.

“… whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.” (Acts 10:35)

We are to choose to be “(slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?” (Romans 6:16)

“… so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.” (Romans 6:19)

“... let the one who is righteous, still practice righteousness” (Revelation 22:11)

“... the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, 

but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 

For he who serves Christ in these things is acceptable to God” (Romans 14:17-18)

 

These requirements are only re: the word "righteousness".

There are many other things involved to be considered righteous in God's eyes!

And they're all explained in the NT, which the churches choose to ignore ... TOO UNPOPULAR!

 

Edited July 11, 2014 by Osterloh

[Floatingaxe]

ALL of our sins---past present and future are all cleansed by the blood at Calvary. That is what God's GRACE has done. We are fully bought.

 

As born again Christians we then embark on a RELATIONSHIP with God. He corrects and encourages, chastises and blesses. He will not lose one of His own.

[Floatingaxe]

I completely disagree with Floatingaxe.  The only sins that are under the blood covering are past sins.  If we commit willful sins after getting saved, we are defiled and the only way to get right with God again is to confess those sins to God.  One willful or presumptuous sin after salvation can cause you to wind up in hell.  Again, the key is that the sin was pre-meditated. 

 

What do you mean, "if"? All sin is willful. Of course we confess our sins when we commit them! That is for right fellowship with Jesus. We are already forgiven. I do not ascribe to a tenuous relationship with my perfect Father. He has the ability to keep me to the end, and He will. That's the assurance I have from Him.

[Osterloh]

Of course those verses show you can lose your salvation ...

I do believe based on the overwhelming evidence of the scriptures in the OP,

one can clearly lose their salvation. 

 

Thanks, I'm feelin' a tad bit better now!

Edited July 11, 2014 by Osterloh

[Osterloh]

Of course those verses show you can lose your salvation ...

I do believe based on the overwhelming evidence of the scriptures in the OP,

one can clearly lose their salvation. 

 

Thanks, I'm feelin' a tad bit better now! ... Life's worth livin' again!

 

 

Edited July 11, 2014 by Osterloh

[Osterloh]

I completely disagree with Floatingaxe. 

The only sins that are under the blood covering are past sins. 

If we commit willful sins after getting saved,

we are defiled and the only way to get right with God again is to confess those sins to God. 

One willful or presumptuous sin after salvation can cause you to wind up in hell. 

Again, the key is that the sin was pre-meditated. 

 

The Book of Hebrews was written to Jews who had become Christians.

This parallels Romans Chapter 6 where Paul very tactfully warns

3 times in 8 verses: SIN RESULTS IN ETERNAL DEATH.

 

Heb 10:26-31 • “For if we keep on sinning willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth,

there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment,

…  For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay”, says the Lord.

… It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

 

Heb 10:36-39 • “For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God,

you may receive the promise: ‘For yet a little while, and He who is coming will come and will not tarry.  

Now the just shall live by faith; but if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him.’  

But we are not of those who draw back to perdition …”

Please notice Paul's writing style ... he is always edifying, building up, encouraging, exhorting!

So he knows the future actions of these Christians?

No, but he sure can hope, can't he.

And while he's hoping, he sure can hint that those who draw back will be going to hell.

 

Heb 12:14-17 • “Pursue … holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: looking carefully

lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble,

and by this many become defiled; lest there be any fornicator or profane person like Esau,

who for one morsel of food sold his birthright. For you know that afterward, when he wanted

to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance …”

Edited July 11, 2014 by Osterloh

[gigman7]

Of course those verses show you can lose your salvation.  To me, this isn't even a tough question, but there are people that have been taught that once you are saved, there is nothing you can do that will cause you to lose your salvation, and they will hold to that doctrine regardless of the evidence.  It is kind of nice to be able to say that, given the fact I just got through debating with someone who claims evidence is the same as proof, and to deny evidence is to deny truth.  Regardless of my little soap box rant,  I do believe based on the overwhelming evidence of the scriptures in the OP, one can clearly lose their salvation. 

As I have said before, if you could lose your salvation, none of us would be saved. We would have to continuously ask to be saved because as soon as we got saved and went on about our lives, we sin again and there goes our salvation. Christ's salvation is perfect. I did nothing to earn it and there is nothing I can do to lose it.

[gigman7]

 

In another thread you said you started this as a crusade.

http://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/182301-do-any-of-these-verses-threaten-the-loss-of-anyones-salvation/page-2#entry2125995

That sounds like an agenda rather than an open discussion.

 

I am entering into an open discussion.

Please present YOUR views as to WHY there are dozens of warnings

written to churches about: SIN RESULTS IN ETERNAL DEATH.

Now, to be fair, these verses are strictly talking about habitual unrepented-of sin!

I.E. a lifestyle of good olde fashioned old-man type sinning!

And this has been done historically by some who erroneously have been indoctrinated into OSAS!

I.E. that is why OSAS is from the pits of hell.

 

Sin results in "death" which Jesus took our place.

When we are saved, we accept what he has done for us and our sin is forgiven.

 

 

Okay, great, this is what is taught in Kindergarden.

But, the little kiddos who are guzzling milk are not reading Scripture.

I have progressed past that stage ... I indulge in the occasional beer.

 

It's taught because it is true.

 

You make poor points here.

[Persuaded]

 

So I don't get accused of cherry picking the easiest one, I'll just go with the first, from Mat 5.

 

First, an earlier verse, so you can see the kind of things Jesus is talking about:

[Mat 5:20 KJV] For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

I submit that 99.9% of christians do not have righteousness of their own that exceeds that of the pharisees, who were professional, diligent law keepers. Is this truly the way to the kingdom? -of course not. Paul explains that the purpose of the law was to show us that we are inadequate to keep the law: [Rom 3:19 KJV] Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

 

You make a valid point about Jesus’ sermon on the mount being before the gospel was well-known.

I included it to show how serious sin is to God.

And there are multitudes of verses threatening loss of eternal life to ANYONE

who is involved in habitual unrepented-of sin! … Some are in the OP list.

Here’s one …

“Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?

Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,

nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners

will inherit the kingdom of God.” (1 Cor 6:9-10)

This applies to everyone on the planet, and I can show from Scripture that

entering the kingdom of God/heaven is equivalent to go to heaven.

Now, will these people come around later? … Heb 10:26+ says there is a cut-off point.

 

So really, that's what all of the dozens of warnings are all about, i.e. OSAS is from the pits of hell.

 

IMO, you’ve got a big problem with righteousness!

Does one need to be righteous in God’s eyes to enter heaven?

Check the end of Matt 25, and then verses such as:

“… let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous” (1 John 3:7)

It’s the old story: is God playing games with us? … I.E. is the reverse of the above true?

If the BAC is not practicing his imputed righteousness, this proves that he is no longer righteous!

We are to choose to be “(slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness” (Romans 6:16)

“… so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.” (Romans 6:19)

 

So, everything is conditional:

God's INITIAL grace, righteousness, salvation, etc. may be carelessly rejected and thrown away!

 

Wow, I just went and read the passage in 1 Cor 6 that you quoted as your champion verse. But you stopped at verse 10, and now I see why!

 

v11: "And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God".

 

This begins with the passage about going to the law with a believer, and having an attitude of forgiveness, and he's reminding them of how much they owe because they have been forgiven, and should walk worthy of the debt they owed. In no way is he talking about their salvation!

 

It goes better for your case if you 1) read the passages you've quoted, and the context and 2) don't accuse others of heresy based on your limited understanding.

 

If you study the Word, you will find that both responsibility and security are sound doctrin; they are each opposing sides to the same coin. Reliance on just one or the other leads to problems- either a works trip for the responsibility crowd, or cheap grace by the security crowd. Try to understand what the whole counsel of God is saying here, both in the verses you've been told to rely on, and those that the folks here have provided. It's the same truth, but God has given a perspective of it from many angles. Don't be the blind man that only feels one part of the elephant!

[Osterloh]

There is an additional list in Galatians that makes the exact same point that

certain behavior will keep you from inheritance in the Kingdom of Heaven. 

 

My dear brother, I did not include the other SIN LISTS in the OP because I was showing some mercy

... they only talk about not inheriting the kingdom, not getting into the New Jerusalem, etc.

 

Deceived Christians think these only apply to unbelievers!

Wouldn't common sense tell them that this wouldn't be fair in the least.

Someone somewhere said: Judgement begins at the house of God.

 

Gal 5:19-21 • “Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication,

uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath,

selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like;

of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice

such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.”

 

Eph 5:3-6 • “But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named

among you, as is fitting for saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting,

which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. For this you know, that no fornicator,

unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in

the kingdom of Christ and God.  Let no one deceive you with empty words,

for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.”

 

Col 3:5-6 • “Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth:

fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.

Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience”

 

Rev 21:7-8 • “He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God

and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers,

sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the

lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

1 John 3:15 • “… you know that NO murderer has eternal life abiding in him”

 

Rev 22:14-15 • “Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to

the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and sorcerers

and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.”

Edited July 11, 2014 by Osterloh