Guest shiloh357 Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Good afternoon Butch. I don't understand something then. Why have christians in general been fighting over this hell forever subject for centuries if we can never return to the original text. There's always a loophole to jump over. Why can't christians just agree that we must wait until we meet the Lord face to face and ask him. You are the one discussing the subject brother, you tell me..... Ego's and belief systems. The Bible is not ambiguous at all about the eternality of hell. It isn't a mystery. When you say Hell, do you mean Gehenna? That is the analogy that Jesus used of Hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch5 Posted July 27, 2014 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 559 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 136 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/09/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/01/1962 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Good afternoon Butch. I don't understand something then. Why have christians in general been fighting over this hell forever subject for centuries if we can never return to the original text. There's always a loophole to jump over. Why can't christians just agree that we must wait until we meet the Lord face to face and ask him. You are the one discussing the subject brother, you tell me..... Ego's and belief systems. The Bible is not ambiguous at all about the eternality of hell. It isn't a mystery. When you say Hell, do you mean Gehenna? That is the analogy that Jesus used of Hell. Yes, I that what you mean when you say Hell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dscapp Posted July 28, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 253 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/20/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 28, 2014 I think the reason there is so much confusion is simply that many don't put forth the effort to study it. I know lots of Christians who don't pick up their Bible between Sundays. Also, and probably more importantly is that th There has been so much error brought into the church that many simply don't have the time to weed through all of the error and do all of the research that is needed to find what is actually the truth and what is error. When I began to study the Ante-Nicene church I was surprised to find that much of what is taught today they new nothing about. Sometimes I say it almost looks like a different religion that we have today than what was originally taught. What are your thoughts of hell being temporary and life with Christ being forever. There seems to be some confusion with this, since both are referring to afterlife. How do we know life with Christ will be forever since hell is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Good afternoon Butch. I don't understand something then. Why have christians in general been fighting over this hell forever subject for centuries if we can never return to the original text. There's always a loophole to jump over. Why can't christians just agree that we must wait until we meet the Lord face to face and ask him. You are the one discussing the subject brother, you tell me..... Ego's and belief systems. The Bible is not ambiguous at all about the eternality of hell. It isn't a mystery. When you say Hell, do you mean Gehenna? That is the analogy that Jesus used of Hell. Yes, I that what you mean when you say Hell? When I say Hell, I am referring to a place of eternal unending fire and everlasting torment that will go on without end, forever. I believe that is the picture given by Gehenna. So yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch5 Posted July 28, 2014 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 559 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 136 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/09/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/01/1962 Share Posted July 28, 2014 I think the reason there is so much confusion is simply that many don't put forth the effort to study it. I know lots of Christians who don't pick up their Bible between Sundays. Also, and probably more importantly is that th There has been so much error brought into the church that many simply don't have the time to weed through all of the error and do all of the research that is needed to find what is actually the truth and what is error. When I began to study the Ante-Nicene church I was surprised to find that much of what is taught today they new nothing about. Sometimes I say it almost looks like a different religion that we have today than what was originally taught. What are your thoughts of hell being temporary and life with Christ being forever. There seems to be some confusion with this, since both are referring to afterlife. How do we know life with Christ will be forever since hell is not. Well, as I said, I understand olam to mean a time that is not defined, I also understand aionios as an undefined period of time. So, the question is how is hell not eternal yet life is eternal. I don't get it from these words. In both Hebrew and Greek eternity can and is expressed with a phrase. When speaking of Jesus' kingdom Isaiah said, "of His kingdom there shall be no end", that is eternal. It's a kingdom without end. Like wise I know that the Life given to the believe is eternal not because it's called aionios life but rather because Jesus said, 35 "But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 "nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. (Luk 20:35-36 NKJ) Jesus said the sons of the resurrection die no more, that is eternal. The reason I say hell is temporary, there are several. One, the lake of fire is called the second death. If one doesn't die then it isn't the second death. Two, Jeremiah's prophecy that Gehenna will be made holy to the Lord. 38 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, that the city shall be built for the LORD from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate. 39 "The surveyor's line shall again extend straight forward over the hill Gareb; then it shall turn toward Goath. 40 "And the whole valley of the dead bodies and of the ashes, and all the fields as far as the Brook Kidron, to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east, shall be holy to the LORD. It shall not be plucked up or thrown down anymore forever." (Jer 31:38-40 NKJ) The third reason is when I look at the creation account of man in Gen. 2:7 I see that man is a body created from the dust into which God breathed His breath/spirit of life and those two combined became a living soul. 7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (Gen 2:7 KJV) Solomon said (Ecc 3) that man and animal all have one breath/spirit and when a man dies the breath/spirit returns to God. We know from Gen 2:7 that that breath/spirit in man is the breath/spirit of life. Since it returns to God and the body returns to dust, there is nothing left to spend an eternity in hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch5 Posted July 28, 2014 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 559 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 136 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/09/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/01/1962 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Good afternoon Butch. I don't understand something then. Why have christians in general been fighting over this hell forever subject for centuries if we can never return to the original text. There's always a loophole to jump over. Why can't christians just agree that we must wait until we meet the Lord face to face and ask him. You are the one discussing the subject brother, you tell me..... Ego's and belief systems. The Bible is not ambiguous at all about the eternality of hell. It isn't a mystery. When you say Hell, do you mean Gehenna? That is the analogy that Jesus used of Hell. Yes, I that what you mean when you say Hell? When I say Hell, I am referring to a place of eternal unending fire and everlasting torment that will go on without end, forever. I believe that is the picture given by Gehenna. So yes. Ok, but Jeremiah said this place would one day be made holy to the Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dscapp Posted July 28, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 253 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/20/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 28, 2014 Like wise I know that the Life given to the believe is eternal not because it's called aionios life but rather because Jesus said, 35 "But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 "nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. (Luk 20:35-36 NKJ) Jesus said the sons of the resurrection die no more, that is eternal. Nice. Good scripture Butch5! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Good afternoon Butch. I don't understand something then. Why have christians in general been fighting over this hell forever subject for centuries if we can never return to the original text. There's always a loophole to jump over. Why can't christians just agree that we must wait until we meet the Lord face to face and ask him. You are the one discussing the subject brother, you tell me..... Ego's and belief systems. The Bible is not ambiguous at all about the eternality of hell. It isn't a mystery. When you say Hell, do you mean Gehenna? That is the analogy that Jesus used of Hell. Yes, I that what you mean when you say Hell? When I say Hell, I am referring to a place of eternal unending fire and everlasting torment that will go on without end, forever. I believe that is the picture given by Gehenna. So yes. Ok, but Jeremiah said this place would one day be made holy to the Lord. Yes, but that misses the point. What you want to avoid in hermeneutics is pushing a metaphor too far. Jesus was using the perpetual nature of the burning dump to make a point about the nature of Hell. The physical, geographical location of Gehenna doesn't have to exist for all eternity for what Jesus said about the unending nature of Hell to be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Butch, The reason I say hell is temporary, there are several. One, the lake of fire is called the second death. If one doesn't die then it isn't the second death. "Second death" doesn't mean that people who have already died are going to die again. There are two resurrections for the righteous and two deaths for the wicked. The second death is an expression that simply expresses the final fate of the wicked their complete and eternal separation from God. Two, Jeremiah's prophecy that Gehenna will be made holy to the Lord. 38 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, that the city shall be built for the LORD from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate. 39 "The surveyor's line shall again extend straight forward over the hill Gareb; then it shall turn toward Goath. 40 "And the whole valley of the dead bodies and of the ashes, and all the fields as far as the Brook Kidron, to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east, shall be holy to the LORD. It shall not be plucked up or thrown down anymore forever." (Jer 31:38-40 NKJ) as i said before you are pushing Jesus' metaphor too far. The third reason is when I look at the creation account of man in Gen. 2:7 I see that man is a body created from the dust into which God breathed His breath/spirit of life and those two combined became a living soul. 7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (Gen 2:7 KJV) Solomon said (Ecc 3) that man and animal all have one breath/spirit and when a man dies the breath/spirit returns to God. We know from Gen 2:7 that that breath/spirit in man is the breath/spirit of life. Since it returns to God and the body returns to dust, there is nothing left to spend an eternity in hell. That is really bad exegesis. We all return to God in one of two ways, either as His children or the subjects of His judgment. Ecc. 3 is not all of the theology about death that the Bible contains on the subject so it is not appropriate to act as if that verse is the final word on the issue. Nothing about that verse indicates that Hell is temporary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted July 29, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted July 29, 2014 You're as flawed as they are. Why should I take your word on how the biblical text should be translated over there's? What makes your views superior to those who have studied how to translate the text? Exactly!! So basically it all comes down to beliefs. We won't really know if hell is forever until we die and ask the Lord ourselves. Am I close? I know what the bible tells me is truth, and the punishment that hell metes out to every sinner and very demonic being is...forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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