Matthew 24, for Jews or for Christians?

[Guest shiloh357]

No it will not be an earthly throne for if it were Christ would be reigning on it already for the last 2000 years. His throne is the heavenly throne for in the resurrection we will be angels, who are the symbol of the white cloud that he rides.

The throne of David is an earthly throne.  Jesus will reign on that throne during the millennium.  The throne of David is always mentioned as being located on earth. There is no place in Scripture where David's throne is ever in heaven.

 

It makes no sense for it to be in heaven because if it were in heaven Jesus could not fulfill Messianic prophecy.  

[Defending the Name]

All things are destined for the heavenly heavenly.

Matthew 22:30

At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

2 Corinthians 5:1

For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands.

Hebrews 8:5

They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: "See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain."

In the Old Testament times they served at a copy and shadow on the future heavenly sanctuary that the many hosts of heaven occupy with Christ.

The shadow is no more, the real one is eternal not made by human hands like it was done in the old testament times.

The 24 earthly judges were also a copy and shadow of the heavenly judges who sit on the right and left side of Christ.

Revelation 21:12-17

And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.

(These are the 12 elderly heavenly judges who are the heads of each 12 tribes of old covenant Israel.)

And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

(The other 12 elderly heavenly judges who are the 12 disciples of Christ representing the new covenant Israel.)

Above are the two halves of the heavenly new Jerusalem mentioned in Zechariah 14, who are the northern half (old) and the southern half (new).

And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof. And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal. And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.

(The city has the post resurrection number 144, which is the number of a person who is an angel.)

1 Corinthians 15:40

There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

It is an angelic body within the angelic heavenly eternal realm.

Why people decide to live in the shadow of the past is worrying. This type of theology of an earthly throne is denying that the messiah came in the first place for his old covenant bride to raise them as prophesied in Ezekiel 37-11-14 and fulfilled in Matthew 27:52-53.

[Salty]

Hi Salty,

 

There is no scripture that shows that God`s ETERNAL THRONE is ever moved to earth which is His FOOTSTOOL.

 

Correct, which is why our Lord Jesus is to inherit the throne of His earthly father David, an earthly throne which The Father promised David would exist unto all generations on earth. When our Lord Jesus comes to reign, on earth, for the "thousand years", with His elect kings and priests, The Father and His Throne will still be in Heaven.

 

The Kingdom is only delivered up to The Father once Christ has reigned over all His enemies, on earth, with all bowing (see 1 Cor.15:23-28).

[Salty]

Quotes by Defending The Name:

 

Salty be the salt of the earth for God. I have read and understood what you are trying to explain. If I could please have your attention to these points:

 

I am salty, haven't you noticed yet? I get even more salty when I see men's tether traditions trying to replace my Heavenly Father's Word.

 

 

Isaiah 9:6 has already happened, right?

Yes/No!

 

Yes AND no. Only the phrase "For unto us a Child is born: a Son is given:" is history. The rest of Isaiah 9:6-7 is STILL FUTURE, for the time when Jesus returns and takes David's throne to reign on earth for the "thousand years" of Rev.20. Our Lord Jesus is not reigning in His Kingdom on earth just yet. He is in control over His Church, but that is not the timing of that "government" of Isaiah 9:6 which also involves Israel's deliverance at His second coming, and the joining of the houses of Israel.

 

When the Son of Man who is the Messiah was given to us as the Emmanuel, on his first and only advent, at that instant and point in time, the declaration that the government shall be on his shoulder and this government will increase and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David.

 

Nope, afraid not. Our Lord Jesus was instead rejected in Jerusalem, and crucified. You have to really lie to yourself to believe His government manifested on earth then, with increase and an everlasting peace like that Isaiah 9 Scripture points to. That is still future, and only will occur at His second coming. You also have the problem with admitting that He has 2... advents (comings) per His Word, with your false declaration of "his first and only advent".

 

So for his government to increase means that it must of had a beginning. When was that beginning? And in what sense does it increase?

What did Saint Paul say to newly converts in Christ in regards to Christ's government?

Ephesians 2:12-15
That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

 

You cannot DISCARD the Old Testament prophets of God's Word. That's what you have been falsely taught to do, obviously.

 

2 Peter 3

 

² That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

³ Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

⁴ And saying, "Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation."

 

Jesus indeed is our Peace, but that's not all... He is also is our KING, literally, and He will reign on earth with His elect like He said (Rev.3). The peace that Isaiah 9 "government" is declaring, is for that future time of His reign on earth, over all nations and peoples. To believe that has happened already today is once again to tell oneself a huge LIE, for it is to deny that He will take actual reign over all His enemies, and put an end to the evil and wickedness upon this earth. Or do you go around declaring the wickedness happening on today's earth by His enemies as being some good thing, as His peace?

 

 

The beginning of Christ's government began when he arose up on high as the new man, the first Adam and then newly converts started to join this commonwealth in droves. This is where his government started to increase immeasurably. But this government is not earthly and Jesus said that his Kingdom is not of this world and again he would tell his disciples to store up heavenly treasures and not earthly ones that get corrupted. Just on the basis that Jesus places so much emphasis on the heavenly, points to the human race joining him in heaven where his Kingdom is. His Kingdom was established according to Daniel 2:44 during the times of the kings of the first century, first advent.

 

No, Christ's "government" has not yet manifested over all nations on earth yet today. He and His Kingdom are still "expecting" like Apostle Paul said in 1 Cor.15:23-28. When our Lord Jesus pointed out that His Kingdom is not of THIS world, by that you have just ADMITTED that His Kingdom is not yet manifested. Or do you just skip over all the OT and NT Scripture which declares WHERE His future Kingdom and government will be manifest, i.e., upon THIS EARTH but NOT in this present time!

 

When our Lord Jesus said His Kingdom is not of this present world, He meant not of this present world TIME. It's because God has given the kingdoms of this present world to Satan (per Luke 4). The following reveals that is going to change... though, at Christ's second coming:

 

Rev.11

¹⁵ And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever."

 

Once again, 1 Cor.15:23-28 that Christ must reign until all His enemies are made His footstool. He will do exactly that at that point after that 7th Trumpet. Did you notice it says all the kingdoms of this world becoming the kingdoms of The Father and of His Christ??? That specifically is what our Lord Jesus has NOT done yet today, and it won't occur until His second coming, or advent, the advent which you've been falsely taught to deny.

 

Zechariah 14 is the most misunderstood Old Testament chapter that tries to force an earthly second coming and dominion. Listen Zechariah 14 is anything but earthly and I will show you.

 

By that declaration you immediately reveal you do not understand that Zech.14 Scripture, or that you deny it, for it is very easy... to understand! Claiming that it is difficult is only creation of an in-road of men's doctrines with wanting to CHANGE what it declares.

 

Zechariah 14:2
For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished;

It is The Lord who gathers all nations against Jerusalem. If he is to reign on earth in Jerusalem, why would he do that?
It would seem to be counterproductive if a king allows his Jerusalem to fall into the enemies hands, wouldn't it?

 

No, it is not counterproductive, because at that timing on the Day of The Lord it's His enemies will surround Jerusalem, and desolate it, so He can pour out upon them His cup of Wrath...

 

Zephaniah 3

⁸ Therefore wait ye upon Me, saith the Lord, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for My determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them Mine indignation, even all My fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of My jealousy.

 

He is very jealous for Jerusalem, as you will see in our near future when that happens, if you're lucky enough to still be alive on this earth.

 

 

The Jerusalem spoken of has houses and consists of many women. This should clearly convey to you that it is not the original Jewish temple worship Jerusalem, but a spiritual Israel that consists of many women, who are a symbol of the many Christian denominations and the many houses of prayer, which are the many church buildings in the world.

 

Nope, wrong again. Our Heavenly Father often referred to Jerusalem's leaders when they were weak, as 'women'. And in a loving sense at times as "daughters", even as Christ did in Luke 23 with warning them about the deception for the end of days, quoting from Isaiah 54.

 

But will there be deceived Christian denominations that will join in false worship to the coming pseudo-Christ, along with the deceived Jews in Jerusalem, thinking that false one is The Messiah having come? YES! most definitely, which is what Apostle Paul's warning about the great falling away is about, the "strong delusion" he mentioned (2 Thess.2). That does NOT mean you can go trying to replace... the deceived Jews in Jerusalem with deceived Christian denominations though. The majority of the whole world will be deceived by that coming fake messiah, thinking he is God, as written. That's why the Rev.11:1-2 temple is a physical temple in Jerusalem for the very end, the one today's deceived Jews plan to rebuild in Jerusalem, and already have the materials ready to build it.

 

Then the brilliant coming of The Lord, for as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. (Matthew 24:27)

Zechariah 14:4
And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Mount of olive is a symbol of peace and not the literal earthly mount of olive, because lightening doesn't physically stand in places on earth, it flashes across the sky. So the mount represents Christ's congregation and the olive is Christ's presence in the midst of them.

 

Wrong again. The Mount of Olives is a REAL location on earth, east of Jerusalem. That's where Jesus ascended to Heaven from per Acts 1, and the two angels said He will come in like manner as His disciples had seen Him ascend from there. Sorry, there will be a second coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, back... to this earth, where He ascended to Heaven from. He ascended LITERALLY, He will descend there LITERALLY.

 

Trying to spiritualize away His second coming to the Mount of Olives would mean His first coming was spiritual only also. Who would want Christ's Church to believe such a lie, that His first coming wasn't actual and literal? Satan, the devil. Satan likewise likes that kind of idea with Christ's second coming being spiritual only and not literal like it's written. That would mean Satan would keep control over the kingdoms of this present world, and need not ever worry about Christ coming to reign here on earth over them.

 

The prince of peace presence is the valley that extends from the east even onto the west and the mountain is the congregation of his sheep. Notice the congregation is split into two part, half to the north and the other half to the south. The north is the old covenant redeemed and the south are those many gentile nations who were invited into the commonwealth of Israel as spoken of by Saint Paul in Ephesians 2:12-15.

Zechariah 14:5
And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

All the sheep of Christ will assemble at the valley where Christ dwells in the midst of both old covenant and new covenant redeemed saints.

 

That is terrible butchering of the Scriptures. That fleeing is about the Day of The Lord events, which include the day of Jesus' second coming to gather His Church, both from Heaven and from the earth, and take them to Jerusalem, on earth, to begin His future "thousand years" reign of Rev.20. It is LITERAL, not spiritual.

 

 

This is poetic language inspired by Persian poetic words that Zechariah uses, since this book was written during the captivity in the Persian empire. The word AZAL is eternity and so the presence of The Lord will reach towards eternity, because he is the eternal God Alpha and Omega. If you read dictionary meanings for AZAL you will get the wrong meaning. Need to use anthropological studies to determine that the word has Persian origins.

 

No, it is not poetry. It is God's Word declaring the events of Christ's SECOND coming back to this earth. Acts 1 is one Scripture of several that confirms it is LITERAL. Ezekiel 40 forward is another Scripture, as is this:

 

Rev.3

⁴ Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white: for they are worthy.

 

Rev.5

⁹ And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for Thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by Thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

¹⁰ And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

 

Pslams 2

⁶ Yet have I set my king upon My holy hill of Zion.

⁷ I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto Me, Thou art My Son; this day have I begotten Thee.

⁸ Ask of Me, and I shall give Thee the heathen for Thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for Thy possession.

 

That "Zion" will is upon this earth at the area of Jerusalem; that's where Jesus will reign from in our near future. But since you don't believe that will happen, how would you expect Him to let you be part of that reign over the nations in that future time?

 

 

Zechariah 14:6-7
And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord,
not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

The above versus clearly convey realm that has not the earthly cycle of day and night, but that light simply present. The source of this light is not a natural light from the sun, this is not the earthly realm and is the heavenly realm. This verse is paralleled by:

Revelation 22:5
And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

If a realm is not dictated by the cycles of day and night as in Genesis one, then it can not be the earthly realm can it?

 

Yes, the earth can be involved in that, because that's about the day being darkened at Christ's second coming. It leads into Christ's Millennium reign timing, which the following verses also reveal. It is not new heavens and new earth timing just yet.

 

 

It shall be one day is a metaphoric language that conveys a time that does not elapse to time out, this means that it is eternal and timeless and without the cycle of day or night as in the first Genesis.

Zechariah 14:8
And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

This Jerusalem is Heavenly New Jerusalem that is said to:

Revelation 21:1-2
​ And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

 

Read Rev.22:14-15 again. What are the wicked doing there still outside the gates of the city while Christ's elect are inside with right to the tree of life? How is it the tree of life is manifested in that time when the wicked dwell outside those gates? The Rev.22:14-15 verses are actually Rev.20 "thousand years" timing of Christ's reign with the rod of iron over the nations with His elect kings and priests. It is not new heavens and new earth timing just yet.

 

We are shown this also in Ezek.40 forward, especially in Ezek.47 with God's River flowing out of the Ezekiel temple, and the tree of life manifested on earth side of that River, and even told its location upon the earth in the Middle East for that future time. Yet that is NOT... new heavens and new earth timing, for the wicked are not yet judged nor cast into the lake of fire yet. You will see the same further down in Zech.14:

 

Zech.14

¹⁶ And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

¹⁷ And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

¹⁸ And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

¹⁹ This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

 

 

 

The sea that represents the first creation, that is the first Adams have all died and their passing has also been with the passing of the Genesis one earthly realm. Heavenly New Jerusalem emerges as the place of the redeemed from amongst men throughout he first resurrection.

Zechariah 14:8 is new Jerusalem consisting of the mount, that is the congregation of both the old covenant and new covenant saints symbolised as the hinder (old) sea and the latter (new) sea and this is why in Zechariah 14:4 describes it as mountain of congregated redeemed peoples, with half towards the north (old) and the other half towards the south (new). Living waters come from Christ as the light / life that feeds his both hands of his congregation in both the winter and the summer. Water from rain in the natural cycle of the earthly realm does not happen all year around. In this instant the water of life is emanating from Christ towards his heavenly congregation all the time for that eternal timeless day that never ends.

 

No, Zech.14:8 is not new heavens and new earth timing. It is Christ's Millennium reign timing, which is why it is obvious why... you failed to continue with those later Zech.14:16-19 events I quoted above.

 

And which is also why you jumped to another subject at this point.

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Salty,

 

Some good points there, Salty. I so enjoy talking about our Lord & what He is doing, don`t you?

 

So .....does the Lord Jesus Christ have to physically be on earth to rule over Israel & the nations during the millennium.......

Well for example our queen (not yours) rules over Australia & the Commonwealth but actually rules from England. Her throne is there as it has always been but her rulership - the Crown - extends to far flung places of the earth. 

 

In the millennium a King called David will rule over Israel & the nations.

 

`Behold days are coming declares the Lord when I will restore the fortunes of My people Israel & Judah..........they shall serve the Lord their God, & David their KING, whom I will raise up for them.`  (Jer. 30: 3 & 9)

 

The Lord Jesus upholds the universe, rules over myriads of angels, oversees the unfolding of the ages He planned & presides over all glory. He has been given the highest position in all realms, by the Father -

 

`God....seated Him (Christ) ....in heavenly places, FAR ABOVE ALL RULE & AUTHORITY & POWER & DOMINION, & EVERY NAME   that is named, not only in this age, BUT ALSO IN THE AGE TO COME. And put ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET...` (Eph. 1: 20 & 21)

 

Awesome, ay Salty - all things, all power & rule etc...in this age & the one to come.....Thus we see that God`s word tells us that Jesus is FAR over all & will rule, yes over Israel with a crown that declares He is king of Israel & the nations but HE is FAR above that & He has MANY CROWNS, for He is -

 

KING OF KINGS & LORD OF LORDS

 

KING OF JUDAH

KING OF ISRAEL

KING OF THE NATIONS

KING OF THE AGES

KING OF RIGHTEOUSNESS & PEACE

KING OF HEAVEN

KING OF GLORY

 

Jesus was king before all time & over all realms & throughout all ages, & thus His throne is in Glory from where He rules over all.

[Defending the Name]

Let me ponder over what you have written Salty. I endeavour to get back to you with an answer.

By the way the prophets of Old testified of messiah first and only advent, so why would their testimony be ignored here. I think that I am considering them that they are already been lifted up and reigning with Christ in his Heavenly Kingdom New Jerusalem, but apparently you have them still asleep in Abraham' Bosom. I am not the one delaying their glory with The Lord, it is the teaching that is currently being taught by you and others that have them rolling in their graves.

I believe that the 24 heavenly judges consist of 12 old covenant elders and the 12 apostles. Look at whom the gates and foundations of the Holy city are named after.

Salvation truly came to the Jews first friend and I don't know why you want to rob that away from the old covenant saints who lived and breathed for the word of God. How can you even compare them to the Jews of the current age?

The Jews of the current age don't even come close to these Holy men of God and so would God delay his plans for them to appease today's fruitless Jewish generation?

I think that God has already banked his old covenant bride because that is what the scriptures testifies of. I don't know why you make God's plan and promise tied to this wicked generation (Jews and all included)?

God fulfilled his promise to Abraham and your saying that he hasn't and according to you and others it has been a 5000 years promise in the making. This thought is preposterous Salty, you know very well that at the close of the old covenant age the long awaited resurrection of the dead commenced when these old covenant saints (first fruits of the harvest), who were crying under the altar of God were raised according to Matthew 27:52-53 and taken up into the heavenly Holy City of angels.

I am saying God has delivered on his promise to Abraham in full and your saying that he hasn't?

It can't be that we are both right, can it?

It means that either God delivered on his promise or not?

If he has, let us say and I truly believe that he has, then you are calling The God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel something that I dare say not.

You know very well that all the passed away old covenant saints were waiting for the first and only advent of messiah to raise them out of their graves. If they knew that there was required a second advent, then they did not mention it in their testimonies, therefore they were unaware of a second coming as a condition, in order for them to be raised. If they we not aware, then are you saying that they have been deceived into believing only one coming was required to raise them up out of their graves, when you are saying no it required two comings.

I think a rational and logical person would say the absence of the second coming doctrine in the Old Testament in order to raise the dead, is a testimony against the second coming teaching.

I hope that common sense reveals the truth to you because you will for ever contend with the scriptures even though they are simple to read and understand. You need to have today's Jews glorified at the cost of the faithful old covenant Jews. To even have this thought is preposterous as I mentioned above. I hope that your segment of Christianity realise that today's Jews are the prodigal son who needs to be brought to The Lord through the blood covenant and to join his old covenant ascended brothers and sisters. Your segment of Christianity and mainstream Christianity is becoming an obstacle and delaying his return to his Father.

I can rebuke today's Jew because my Lord counts me as one of the men of Nineveh. I want the best for them but apparently others don't. I mean come on my agenda is to have him reunited with his Father and what is revealed to me rallies the prodigal son to take up his cross as the 11th hour workmen and to preach the gospel.

Why do you think The Lord said the men of Nineveh will come to judge this generation?

It is because the same Holy hand that sent Jonah to the men of Nineveh sends the Men of Nineveh on the same mission to the sons of Jacob to bring them back from destruction. The men of Nineveh are the ones The Lord will use to bring back his youngest son and this is why I see that your teaching is denying them that right and delaying their return to the Father.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Defending the Name

[Salty]

Quotes by Marilyn:

 

 

Hi Salty,

 

Some good points there, Salty. I so enjoy talking about our Lord & what He is doing, don`t you?

 

I enjoy helping others in God's Word as He gives me to do, but I don't enjoy having to deal with the butchers of His Word, whether they are just deceived by the "workers of iniquity", or if they are part of the "workers of iniquity". In time I know our Heavenly Father and Son will deal with them, and I say that while trusting in His mercy.

 

 

So .....does the Lord Jesus Christ have to physically be on earth to rule over Israel & the nations during the millennium.......

Well for example our queen (not yours) rules over Australia & the Commonwealth but actually rules from England. Her throne is there as it has always been but her rulership - the Crown - extends to far flung places of the earth.

 

Well, yes, He does. Am I saying He must remain on earth all the time for that? No. Study Ezekiel 40 forward carefully and you'll know what I mean by that.

 

 

In the millennium a King called David will rule over Israel & the nations.

 

`Behold days are coming declares the Lord when I will restore the fortunes of My people Israel & Judah..........they shall serve the Lord their God, & David their KING, whom I will raise up for them.`  (Jer. 30: 3 & 9)

 

I was gonna say you were referring to Ezek.37 with that about king David. Yes, king David will be established once again over the 12 tribes of Israel in God's future Kingdom. Again, study the Ezek.40 forward chapters about that, for it's there also. That does not mean king David will replace our Lord Jesus Christ as KING in that future Millennial reign. The whole point of the coming Millennial reign is about Christ's reign, not David's.

 

 

The Lord Jesus upholds the universe, rules over myriads of angels, oversees the unfolding of the ages He planned & presides over all glory. He has been given the highest position in all realms, by the Father -

 

`God....seated Him (Christ) ....in heavenly places, FAR ABOVE ALL RULE & AUTHORITY & POWER & DOMINION, & EVERY NAME   that is named, not only in this age, BUT ALSO IN THE AGE TO COME. And put ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET...` (Eph. 1: 20 & 21)

 

Yes, that's true. But don't forget Scripture like 1 Cor.15:23-28. He MUST reign over all His enemies before that will be complete, and then He will deliver up the Kingdom to The Father, and God will be all in all. Apostle Paul was pointing to The Godhead with that, with The Father not part of that Millennial reign by Christ over all His enemies that must occur first.

 

 

Awesome, ay Salty - all things, all power & rule etc...in this age & the one to come.....Thus we see that God`s word tells us that Jesus is FAR over all & will rule, yes over Israel with a crown that declares He is king of Israel & the nations but HE is FAR above that & He has MANY CROWNS, for He is -

 

KING OF KINGS & LORD OF LORDS

 

KING OF JUDAH

KING OF ISRAEL

KING OF THE NATIONS

KING OF THE AGES

KING OF RIGHTEOUSNESS & PEACE

KING OF HEAVEN

KING OF GLORY

 

Yes, but He is not here reigning over the nations just yet. That will be literal, and not just spiritual. We should easily know that by today's times especially, with how crazy the nations are because of Satan still having power over them, and when he arrives at the end of this world, his power over them will be at its height for this present world. Don't don't hang your boots up to dry just yet.

 

 

Jesus was king before all time & over all realms & throughout all ages, & thus His throne is in Glory from where He rules over all.

[Salty]

Let me ponder over what you have written Salty. I endeavour to get back to you with an answer.

By the way the prophets of Old testified of messiah first and only advent, so why would their testimony be ignored here. I think that I am considering them that they are already been lifted up and reigning with Christ in his Heavenly Kingdom New Jerusalem, but apparently you have them still asleep in Abraham' Bosom. I am not the one delaying their glory with The Lord, it is the teaching that is currently being taught by you and others that have them rolling in their graves.

 

 

I see you refuse to see the OT Scriptures as they are actually written, about TWO advents of Messiah:

 

1st Coming:

 

Zech.9

⁹ Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

 

2nd Coming:

 

Zech.9

¹⁰ And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth.

 

Christ Jesus' first entry in Jerusalem was "lowly", riding upon an ass, to be crucified. For His second coming He rides upon a white horse to take power over all the earth. THIS IS BIBLE 101.

 

If you don't understand that, then everything you read in Scripture is going to be off kilter, and it shows in your words.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Salty,
 
Interesting that you should say -

`Am I saying He must remain on earth all the time for that? No.`

 

So when do you believe the Lord will leave the earth in the millennium?

[Defending the Name]

Let me ponder over what you have written Salty. I endeavour to get back to you with an answer.

By the way the prophets of Old testified of messiah first and only advent, so why would their testimony be ignored here. I think that I am considering them that they are already been lifted up and reigning with Christ in his Heavenly Kingdom New Jerusalem, but apparently you have them still asleep in Abraham' Bosom. I am not the one delaying their glory with The Lord, it is the teaching that is currently being taught by you and others that have them rolling in their graves.

 

I see you refuse to see the OT Scriptures as they are actually written, about TWO advents of Messiah:

 

1st Coming:

 

Zech.9

⁹ Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

 

2nd Coming:

 

Zech.9

¹⁰ And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth.

 

Christ Jesus' first entry in Jerusalem was "lowly", riding upon an ass, to be crucified. For His second coming He rides upon a white horse to take power over all the earth. THIS IS BIBLE 101.

 

If you don't understand that, then everything you read in Scripture is going to be off kilter, and it shows in your words.

So you are saying Zechariah 9.9 is first coming and Zechariah 9:10 is second coming. So there is only one verse that separates the first and the second coming?

Come on really!

You can't pretend to speak on behalf of the Jews of that time, if they saw it as one coming and they were the original authors of this testimony, how is it that you are declaring that you know what they did not know at that time?

You are looking at things from a perspective of a child by thinking only in concrete terms within the limitations of the physical realm and you show that you really don't understand that the language of that day is poetic. The poetic language paints a spiritual picture that has a totally different meaning to what is in the natural realm and I will prove it to you.

Why don't you quote that extra verse at the end of Zechariah 9:10, like so:

Zechariah 9:9-11

Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass. And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth. As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water.

Step one: Jesus comes riding upon a colt, the foal of an ass.

Step two: Jesus will speak peace not war unto the heathen (unbelieving) Gentiles of the world.

Step three: Jesus will have a dominion from sea (nation) to sea (nation) of all the world.

Step four: Jesus will do this by the blood covenant.

You simply left out the means by which step one to step three will be achieved, because the context on how this will be achieved is in Zechariah 9:11, whereby The Lord will accomplish this magnificent feet by the atoning for the sins of the world, once and for all. Notice I said once, meaning once, right?

Yes right only once. Jesus came and conquered and redeemed men onto him through the blood covenant, for this is the means by which the everlasting gospel of peace went out even onto the unbelieving gentile nations of the world for the redemption of sins. He did not do this by war as you are implying, by collapsing the context of the two versus.

This has nothing what so ever to do with a second coming. Please don't go changing the subject on me now, since you opened this one up, stay within the context of Zechariah 9:9-11 and don't go looking for versus else where.