Was Jesus crucified on Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday?

[gerhard eber]

On 9/3/2014 at 4:08 AM, OneLight said:

The day of preperation, the day before the Sabbath ... Thursday.   Remember, the Sabbath begins Friday at dusk.

 

Mark 15:42-47

 

 

Now when evening had come, because it was the Preparation Day, that is, the day before the Sabbath, Joseph of Arimathea, a prominent council member, who was himself waiting for the kingdom of God, coming and taking courage, went in to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. Pilate marveled that He was already dead; and summoning the centurion, he asked him if He had been dead for some time. So when he found out from the centurion, he granted the body to Joseph. Then he bought fine linen, took Him down, and wrapped Him in the linen. And he laid Him in a tomb which had been hewn out of the rock, and rolled a stone against the door of the tomb. And Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joses observed where He was laid.

 

 

Luke 23:52-54

 

 

This man went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. Then he took it down, wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a tomb that was hewn out of the rock, where no one had ever lain before. That day was the Preparation, and the Sabbath drew near.

AMEN

Praise the Lord!

[gerhard eber]

On 9/3/2014 at 4:21 AM, OneLight said:

Count them:

Thursday Night - Friday - 1st night and 1st day

Friday Night - Saturday - 2nd night and 2nd day

Saturday Night - Sunday Morning - 3rd night and 3rd day

How tragic!

O Lord, be merciful

[gerhard eber]

On 9/3/2014 at 1:51 PM, OneLight said:

One could consider that Thursday, when He died, was the first day.  I was considering this also.  We need to remember that scripture never indicates that the day has to be a full term, as in 12 hours or so.  That would look like:

The Fifth Day of the week (Wednesday night and Thursday daylight) indeed was day 1 of the "three days", "days" being 1) THE "three days" of the Passover of Yahweh; 2) these "days" in their Biblical WHOLE being first their nights and last their daylight hours making up the same day-unit and not dividing them up into loose standing halves of different days each.  

[Retrobyter]

16 hours ago, gerhard eber said:

Plenty of Scriptures about what?

Shalom, gerhard eber.

There are plenty of Scriptures about the Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread!

16 hours ago, gerhard eber said:

I have said, 'There are eight days of 'passover'. I have not said there were eight days of unleavened bread.

Then, you were wrong. Technically, there's just ONE "Passover" day. The other days, including the Passover itself (maybe), are called collectively the "Feast of Unleavened Bread."

16 hours ago, gerhard eber said:

In your Scriptures there are eight instances it says "seven days". If all of them have to do with the feast called Unleavened Bread, all of them say seven days; not one says eight days.

So, What's this, big man, '~ACTUALLY, there are SEVEN days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread and SOMETIMESit extends to eight!

"Big man"? I take that personally, bro'! I'm not exactly obese, but I am overweight, and I don't appreciate such a reference! Stick to the issues, and leave the personal attacks out, please.

The truth is I misunderstood my source. It's not that it's seven sometimes extended to eight, but that there's a DEBATE among Jewish rabbis and scholars whether the Passover is to be included in the seven days of Unleavened Bread or counted separately. If it's included, there's seven days. If it's counted separately, then there's eight days.

This debate is fueled by the English interpretations of Exodus 12 and Leviticus 23. The instructions to the children of Israel in Leviticus 23 seem to say that the Feast of Unleavened Bread comes AFTER the Day of Passover:

Vayikra (Leviticus) 23:5-8 (Complete Jewish Bible)

5 "In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month, between sundown and complete darkness, comes Pesach for ADONAI. 6 On the fifteenth day of the same month is the festival of matzah: for seven days you are to eat matzah. 7 On the first day, you are to have a holy convocation; don't do any kind of ordinary work. 8 Bring an offering made by fire to ADONAI for seven days. On the seventh day is a holy convocation; do not do any kind of ordinary work."

However, Exodus 12 seems to include Pesach (Passover) within the seven days of the Festival of Matzah (Unleavened Bread):

Sh'mot (Exodus) 12:1- (Complete Jewish Bible)

1 ADONAI spoke to Moshe and Aharon in the land of Egypt; he said, 2 "You are to begin your calendar with this month; it will be the first month of the year for you. 3 Speak to all the assembly of Isra'el and say, 'On the tenth day of this month, each man is to take a lamb or kid for his family, one per household - 4 except that if the household is too small for a whole lamb or kid, then he and his next-door neighbor should share one, dividing it in preparation to the number of people eating it. 5 Your animal must be without defect, a male in the first year, and you may choose it from either the sheep or the goats.

6 "'You are to keep it until the fourteenth day of the month, and then the entire assembly of the community of Isra'el will slaughter it at dusk. 7 They are to take some of the blood and smear it on the two sides and top of the door-frame at the entrance of the house in which they eat it. 8 That night, they are to eat the meat, roasted in the fire; they are to eat it with matzah and maror [bitter herbs]. 9 Don't eat it raw or boiled, but roasted in the fire, with its head, the lower parts of its legs and its inner organs. 10 Let nothing of it remain till morning; if any of it does remain, burn it up completely.

11 "'Here is how you are to eat it: with your belt fastened, your shoes on your feet and your staff in your hand, and you are to eat it hurriedly. It is ADONAI'S Pesach [Passover]. 12 For that night, I will pass through  the land of Egypt and kill all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both men and animals; and I will execute judgment against all the gods of Egypt; I am ADONAI. 13 The blood will serve you as a sign marking the houses where you are; when I see the blood, I will pass over [Hebrew: pasach] you - when I strike the land of Egypt, the death blow will not strike you.

14 "'This will be a day for you to remember and celebrate as a festival to ADONAI; from generation to generation you are to celebrate it by a perpetual regulation.

15 "'For seven days you are to eat matzah - on the first day remove the leaven from your houses. For whoever eats hametz [leavened bread] from the first to the seventh day is to be cut off from Isra'el. 16 On the first and seventh days, you are to have an assembly set aside for God. On these days no work is to be done, except what each must do to prepare his food; you may do only that. 17 You are to observe the festival of matzah, for on this very day I brought your divisions out of the land of Egypt. Therefore, you are to observe this day from generation to generation by a perpetual regulation. 18 From the evening of the fourteenth day of the first month until the evening of the twenty-first day, you are to eat matzah. 19 During those seven days, no leaven is to be found in your houses. Whoever eats food with hametz in it is to be cut off from the community of Isra'el - it doesn't matter whether he is a foreigner or a citizen of the land.
20 Eat nothing with hametz in it. Wherever you live, eat matzah.'"

[gerhard eber]

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

"Big man"? I take that personally, bro'! I'm not exactly obese, but I am overweight, and I don't appreciate such a reference! Stick to the issues, and leave the personal attacks out, please.

I used those words because you asked if I wanted a fight. I have no idea who you are. Nevertheless I ask forgiveness that I offended you. 

[gerhard eber]

2 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Exodus 12 seems to include Pesach (Passover) within the seven days of the Festival of Matzah (Unleavened Bread):

Sh'mot (Exodus) 12:1- (Complete Jewish Bible)

1 ADONAI spoke to Moshe and Aharon in the land of Egypt; he said, 2 "You are to begin your calendar with this month; it will be the first month of the year for you. 3 Speak to all the assembly of Isra'el and say, 'On the tenth day of this month, each man is to take a lamb or kid for his family, one per household - 4 except that if the household is too small for a whole lamb or kid, then he and his next-door neighbor should share one, dividing it in preparation to the number of people eating it. 5 Your animal must be without defect, a male in the first year, and you may choose it from either the sheep or the goats.

6 "'You are to keep it until the fourteenth day of the month, and then the entire assembly of the community of Isra'el will slaughter it at dusk. 7 They are to take some of the blood and smear it on the two sides and top of the door-frame at the entrance of the house in which they eat it. 8 That night, they are to eat the meat, roasted in the fire; they are to eat it with matzah and maror [bitter herbs]. 9 Don't eat it raw or boiled, but roasted in the fire, with its head, the lower parts of its legs and its inner organs. 10 Let nothing of it remain till morning; if any of it does remain, burn it up completely.

11 "'Here is how you are to eat it: with your belt fastened, your shoes on your feet and your staff in your hand, and you are to eat it hurriedly. It is ADONAI'S Pesach [Passover]. 12 For that night, I will pass through  the land of Egypt and kill all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both men and animals; and I will execute judgment against all the gods of Egypt; I am ADONAI. 13 The blood will serve you as a sign marking the houses where you are; when I see the blood, I will pass over [Hebrew: pasach] you - when I strike the land of Egypt, the death blow will not strike you.

14 "'This will be a day for you to remember and celebrate as a festival to ADONAI; from generation to generation you are to celebrate it by a perpetual regulation.

15 "'For seven days you are to eat matzah - on the first day remove the leaven from your houses. For whoever eats hametz [leavened bread] from the first to the seventh day is to be cut off from Isra'el. 16 On the first and seventh days, you are to have an assembly set aside for God. On these days no work is to be done, except what each must do to prepare his food; you may do only that. 17 You are to observe the festival of matzah, for on this very day I brought your divisions out of the land of Egypt. Therefore, you are to observe this day from generation to generation by a perpetual regulation. 18 From the evening of the fourteenth day of the first month until the evening of the twenty-first day, you are to eat matzah. 19 During those seven days, no leaven is to be found in your houses. Whoever eats food with hametz in it is to be cut off from the community of Isra'el - it doesn't matter whether he is a foreigner or a citizen of the land.
20 Eat nothing with hametz in it. Wherever you live, eat matzah.'"

Re:

'~Exodus 12 seems to include Pesach (Passover) within the seven days of the Festival of Matzah (Unleavened Bread)~'

This is hundred percent correct. Exodus 12:6,8 proves it.

2 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Technically, there's just ONE "Passover" day. The other days, including the Passover itself (maybe), are called collectively the "Feast of Unleavened Bread."

Also correct. Christians however --like myself-- understand 'passover' and 'feast (or) days of ulb' interchangeable, which I like no one else before have been protesting against.  

Exodus 12:14 is the ONLY place where the fourteenth day is described as a "feast". The 14th though is also the day to kill the sacrifice, verse 6. The 14th is the ONLY date used in Exodus except in verse 18 where it says "eat ulb on the 14th in the evening until the twenty first day in the evening", that means, eight days, eight times, ulb EATEN.

The only explanation for this seeming discrepancy, in my opinion, is two faceted, The evolution or development of the historical into the institutionalised.

What was the historical passover? It was a day, "BONE-DAY", 'etsem yom' OF "THREE DAYS DARKNESS" INDISTINGUISHABLE. And "the head first day" in this "BONE-DAY", the 14th, was historically, the last day in the Land of Egypt where and when days were observed from sunrise to sunrise.

The situation CHANGED after the original historic passover and Israel got SETTLED in the promised land and DAYS BECAME OBSERVED to Yahweh's order of sunset to sunset.  

Which explains the irrevocable fact that the day the sacrifice of the 14th was EATEN, ever after in all the remaining Old Testament Scriptures, is actually dated and or by implication confirmed, "on the fifteenth day of the month". 

For a sketch, see http://www.biblestudents.co.za/books/Book 1, 1 Passover to Crucifixion.pdf page 51.

Were I to re-draw this sketch, I would have placed this note, 'The First Day put away leaven 12:6', in the left 'night' column when it in reality happened ... and correct the reference to 12:15! 

 

Edited August 7, 2018 by gerhard eber

[gerhard eber]

3 hours ago, Da Puppers said:

Being that we all agree that each day of the calendar begins at sundown,  we have shown that the night in which the Passover was eaten, and the following daylight hours in which they left Egypt in haste,  are one and the same day.... The 15th.

All Bible days '~of the calendar begin at sundown~' EXCEPT for the 430 years Israel was in exile in Egypt WHEN AND WHERE all days began and ended sunrise. Exodus shows, in fact, expressly dates, '~the night in which the Passover was eaten, and the following daylight hours in which they left Egypt in haste~', "This That Selfsame Whole Day BONE-DAY" sunrise to sunrise, "the FOURTEENTH DAY of the First Month", not '~the 15th~'. 

The Book of Joshua which contains the historically earliest mention of "the fifteenth", was written many years after the forty years in the desert after the end of the four hundred and thirty years in Egypt. 

[gerhard eber]

5 hours ago, Da Puppers said:

It was the Passover meal,   prepared BEFOREHAND on the preparation hours of the day of the 14th, eaten on Passover night of the 15th!  Any subsequent reference to a preparation day,  can only be in reference to the day before the regular Sabbath. 

The Jews to this day have their passover preparation meal; they call it the Bedikat Gamets (or something), eaten in the night of the fourteenth day. 

But the Passover Jesus said He "with desire desired to eat" with his disciples before He would suffer death, was his Suffering-of-Pascha-of-Yahweh from that He "knew the hour" at the table already until "This, your day and the power of darkness". "And it was the sixth hour and there was darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour ... when Jesus cried with a loud voice and said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, He gave up the ghost."

[gerhard eber]

1 hour ago, Da Puppers said:

Joshua,  equates "the 9th day at even" WITH the 10th day of the month

Who said Joshua equates "the 9th day at even" with the 10th day of the month? In any case, what's the point?

 

1 hour ago, Da Puppers said:

I have already shown that Leviticus 23,  not Joshua,  equates "the 9th day at even" WITH the 10th day of the month, and that Passover oss referred to as the 14th at even.   Eating in haste,   and being dressed to travel,  confirms that they left in the daylight of the morning that immediately followed. 

So what? What has the 9th and 10th days of the Seventh Month to do with the 14th and 15th days of the First Month?

[Retrobyter]

5 hours ago, Da Puppers said:

I have already shown that Leviticus 23,  not Joshua,  equates "the 9th day at even" WITH the 10th day of the month, and that Passover oss referred to as the 14th at even.   Eating in haste,   and being dressed to travel,  confirms that they left in the daylight of the morning that immediately followed.   They left Rameses on the morning of the 15th.  

*[[Num 33:3]] KJV* And they departed from Rameses in the first month, on the fifteenth day of the first month; on the morrow after the passover the children of Israel went out with an high hand in the sight of all the Egyptians.

Blessings

The PuP 

Shalom, Da Puppers.

Actually, that's not true.

First, allow me to make a general correction to all: The day of preparation is the 13th of Nissan, NOT the 14th. The 14th day IS the Passover. (My daughter corrected me.)

We absolutely MUST remember actually to APPLY the fact that the Hebrew day BEGINS at sundown. That means that "the evening of the x-th day" is at the START of the x-th day!

Thus, the fact that "Passover is referred to as the 14th at even" is talking about the NIGHT BEFORE the daytime hours of the 14th of Nissan. The children of Israel were hurried out of Egypt THAT VERY DAY!

See, at midnight, the children of the Egyptians were destroyed. That very day the survivors THRUST the children of Israel out of Egypt!

Sh'mot (Exodus) 12:33 (CJB)

33 The Egyptians pressed to send the people out of the land quickly, because they said, "Otherwise we'll all be dead!"

They wanted them GONE and expedited their departure!