gerhard eber Posted August 8, 2018 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 198 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/11/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted August 8, 2018 (edited) 15 hours ago, Retrobyter said: First, allow me to make a general correction to all: The day of preparation is the 13th of Nissan, NOT the 14th. The 14th day IS the Passover. (My daughter corrected me.) We absolutely MUST remember actually to APPLY the fact that the Hebrew day BEGINS at sundown. That means that "the evening of the x-th day" is at the START of the x-th day! Thus, the fact that "Passover is referred to as the 14th at even" is talking about the NIGHT BEFORE the daytime hours of the 14th of Nissan. The children of Israel were hurried out of Egypt THAT VERY DAY! See, at midnight, the children of the Egyptians were destroyed. That very day the survivors THRUST the children of Israel out of Egypt! Sh'mot (Exodus) 12:33 (CJB) 33 The Egyptians pressed to send the people out of the land quickly, because they said, "Otherwise we'll all be dead!" They wanted them GONE and expedited their departure! What you say here is true of the exodus, the first and last and only one passover event in history. It occurred from within Egypt to out of Egypt to within the Canaan side of the Red Sea. In Egypt the upcoming sun was the people's god which they DAILY worshipped. so the first halve of the Egyptian day is its daylight part. Israel was commanded to KILL the sacrifice "on the fourteenth day of the First Month for YOU", NOT for the Egyptians! Israel had to EAT the sacrifice in the NIGHT IN EGYPT "on the fourteenth day in the evening" after sunset. It can only have been after the daylight halve of the fourteenth during which they had killed the sacrifice and which STILL is being called "That Night ... the fourteenth day of the First Month ... FOR YOU ... in the evening ... That Night solemnly to be observed". But now God ordered Israel, "even the first day" (the 14th) they had to have the passover killed daylight time "mid-afternoon" 'behn ha arba-yim', and "shall (have) put away / removed leaven", "in This Selfsame Day I have brought your armies out". They could not have removed leaven in the night after they began to move out; they had to have removed it "in This Selfsame Day..." but before the LORD "...brought your armies out" after "midnight (when) the LORD smote all the firstborn ... and Pharaoh called BY NIGHT and commanded, Rise up, get ye forth". So the LORD had commanded Israel to smear blood on the lintels after they had killed the sacrifice and before sunset before they entered their homes to eat the passover: all in "That Night" before midnight; all in Egypt and all "on the fourteenth"... which clearly shows it was impossible that both things could be done in the SAME night! Therefore LATER ON TWO nights, began to be observed, the first one, at its beginning, "EVENING ... on the first day without leaven ... when they killed the passover" Mark 14:17,12 Matthew 26:20,17 Luke 22:14,7 John 13:30,1 = 1Corinthians 11:23, "The Night in which the Lord Jesus was betrayed". the second night on "the first day of seven days ulb was to be eaten" on the "Selfsame BONE-DAY" at its BEGINNING at "This That Night of the LORD to be observed" in Exodus 12:41,42, in the NT in John 19:31 to 38 to 39 to 41, in Mark in 15:42-46a, in Matthew in 27:57-59, and in Luke in 23:50 to the second phrase of verse 53. Edited August 8, 2018 by gerhard eber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerhard eber Posted August 8, 2018 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 198 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/11/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted August 8, 2018 3 hours ago, Da Puppers said: the 7 day feast of unleavened was not part of the exodus. It was an instituted feast, ordained ordained after the fact. Exodus 12:8, "Eat the flesh in That Night roasted with fire with unleavened bread with nothing else, bitter just like that ... Thus shall ye eat it --the flesh and ulb-- your loins girded, your shoes on ... for I will pass through THIS NIGHT" as it happened "midnight That Selfsame Night TO BE OBSERVED ... (when) it came to pass that all the hosts of the LORD WENT OUT FROM the land of Egypt." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerhard eber Posted August 8, 2018 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 198 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/11/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted August 8, 2018 3 hours ago, Da Puppers said: the 7 day feast of unleavened was not part of the exodus. It was an instituted feast, ordained ordained after the fact. Instituted after the event, yes, but commanded before. Exodus 12:17, "And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt." "Feast" obviously simply meaning "eat" the ulb and the flesh of the sacrifice together indeed after "the very first day ye shall have removed leaven" Exodus 12:14-15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerhard eber Posted August 8, 2018 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 198 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/11/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted August 8, 2018 (edited) On 8/8/2018 at 4:40 PM, Da Puppers said: You (Retrobutor) have admitted that the morning (daylight) that followed are the same day. And you have admitted that they left in haste that next morning. And I have showed you that Numbers 33:3 says that it was the 15th. Correct, Numbers 33:3 says that it was the 15th; Exodus 12:6-14:12 says it was the 14th. It is not a matter of either or; both are correct; you only have to see how both are correct; until you do you haven't seen the truth in either. Edited August 15, 2018 by gerhard eber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerhard eber Posted August 8, 2018 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 198 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/11/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted August 8, 2018 (edited) On 8/7/2018 at 3:50 PM, Da Puppers said: Being that we all agree that each day of the calendar begins at sundown, we have shown that the night in which the Passover was eaten, and the following daylight hours in which they left Egypt in haste, are one and the same day.... The 15th. IF but we all agreed! Yes, to the earth's rotation according to the order of the creation, for the people of God '~the night in which the Passover was eaten, and the following daylight hours in which they left Egypt in haste, are one and the same day.... The 15th~', but not in the land of darkness and worshippers of the sun! Do not forget the LORD saved the People of God out from that corrupted system and gave them his Laws and ordinances including the true day-cycle from evening after sunset to afternoon before sunset. The passover and the exodus were the two things with which God did just that! Edited August 8, 2018 by gerhard eber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerhard eber Posted August 10, 2018 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 198 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/11/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted August 10, 2018 (edited) On 8/8/2018 at 11:59 PM, Da Puppers said: Do you agree that by the Hebrew reckoning of time in which, numerically, the number of the day changed at sundown, the eating of the Passover takes place at the beginning of the 15th? Yes, I do. But it isn't '~by the Hebrew reckoning of time~' but by God's and the Bible's reckoning of time and days and dates. So it isn't '~the number of the day (that) changed at sundown~', but the NAME of the week-day which was its number in the series of the seven days of the WEEK that changed at sundown. Or it was '~the number of the day~' or DATE of the day of the MONTH, that '~changed at sundown~'. [With the exception in the case of the 430 years in Egypt for Israel.] Edited August 10, 2018 by gerhard eber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerhard eber Posted August 11, 2018 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 198 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/11/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted August 11, 2018 14 hours ago, Da Puppers said: Your word are confusing to me...[Yes, I do, but it isn't]. Let me try another scripture. This scripture refers to the 14th at evening: *[[Exo 12:18]] KJV* In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even. Simple logic concludes that the time of day, "at even", must be the same hour, whether viewed as the first hour or the last hour of the 14th AND 21st days of the month to arrive at 7 days of u leavened bread. *[[Exo 12:19]] KJV* Seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses: for whosoever eateth that which is leavened, even that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he be a stranger, or born in the land. So, when other scriptures refer to "the 14th day at evening", such as: A. *[[Exo 12:6]] KJV* And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening. B. *[[Lev 23:5]] KJV* In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S passover. C. *[[Num 9:5]] KJV* And they kept the passover on the fourteenth day of the first month at even in the wilderness of Sinai: according to all that the LORD commanded Moses, so did the children of Israel. One is referring to the start of the 7 day feast, and the others refer to the Passover. Are these all referring to one and the same day? Blessings The PuP Thank you for returning post. Let us start with you last remark, ‘~One is referring to the start of the 7 day feast, and the others refer to the Passover. Are these all referring to one and the same day?~’ and reduce it into a question whether ‘~the 7 day feast~’ is ‘~the Passover~’ or not? Some say only ‘~the 7 day feast~’, is ‘~the Passover~’; Others say, only the day when they killed the lamb for the passover feast was ‘the passover’. And so there is much confusion. But go back to Exodus 12:2 where “the First Month for you”, ‘Abib’ was the first thing instructed in connection with the passover, and it follows like daylight follows night that Deuteronomy 16:1 would say, “OBSERVE the month of Abib”. “Observe” it for what or as what? “Observe” the whole month for being and as being ‘Passover Month’! Compare Exodus again, in 34:18, “the feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep. Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread as I commanded thee IN THE TIME OF the month Abib…” “IN THE TIME OF the month Abib…” When was that? It was with the exodus at the unrepeatable event of the first ever passover, and therefore in the ‘Passover Month’ -- the whole of the First Month. The month Abib per se therefore was “passover” and “passover” per se was the month Abib “…for in the MONTH Abib thou camest out from Egypt.” But “Moses said unto the people, Remember this DAY in which ye came out from Egypt … this DAY came ye out in the month Abib. … Thou shalt terefore keep this ordinance (the passover) in its SEASON (time / month / days / day) from YEAR to YEAR.” Now watch your words, ‘~This scripture refers to the 14th at evening: *[[Exo 12:18]] KJV* In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even. Simple logic concludes that the time of day, "at even", must be the same hour, whether viewed as the first hour or the last hour of the 14th AND 21st days of the month to arrive at 7 days of u leavened bread.~’ Absolutely RIGHT! This has been the point where nobody ever has been prepared to obey the TEXT. Here is where the neverending surmisings begin! But obey the Word of God and accept the God-given and therefore eschatological IMPERATIVE WHOLE of the “three days thick darkness” of the Passover of Yahweh “on the fourteenth day”? Never! In Exodus, “THREE DAYS” IN ONE : In Exodus, “on the FOURTEENTH day of the First Month FOR YOU … THIS THAT SELFSAME WHOLE DAY BONE-DAY … ye shall remove leaven … KILL the passover … and in your houses stay”; In Exodus, “on the FOURTEENTH day of the First Month FOR YOU … THIS THAT SELFSAME WHOLE DAY BONE-DAY … the LORD BROUGHT Israel OUT” and they forever left behind the sacrifice “eaten” and “that which remained … burnt with fire” to ashes and dust, BURIED in the past! In Exodus, “on the FOURTEENTH day of the First Month FOR YOU … THIS THAT SELFSAME WHOLE DAY BONE-DAY … the LORD brought Israel OUT and brought them IN” and “planted” them “IN the land the LORD had sworn He would give you”. Thereafter until “Christ Our Passover”, THESE “three days” were continued “to their season” by “ordinance”… “On the head first day … PASSOVER “the fourteenth THIS THAT SELFSAME WHOLE DAY BONE-DAY … ye shall remove leaven … KILL the passover … and in your houses stay”; “On the fifteenth THIS THAT SELFSAME WHOLE DAY BONE-DAY … first day seven days ye shall EAT … IN THAT NIGHT the flesh with … unleaven bread”; “On THIS THAT SELFSAME WHOLE DAY BONE-DAY … the sixteenth day of the First Month they made an END … cleansed the Inner Part (Most Holy Place His Name) of the House of the LORD … and sanctified … WENT IN THE KING … and began the Song of the LORD with trumpets…” and continued FEAST until … “seven days there shall be no leaven found in your houses.” Re: ‘~So, when other scriptures refer to "the 14th day at evening", such as…~’ In Exodus 12:6 “in the evening” comes from ‘ereb’ “late (in the daylight-time)”. In Leviticus 23:5 and Numbers 9:5, “at even” comes from ‘behn-ha-arba-yim’ “between the (latter) quarters of days” which is also meaning “late (in the daylight-time)” but ‘behn-ha-arba-yim’ cannot like ‘ereb’, also, have the meaning of “late (in the night)”. ‘behn-ha-arba-yim’ only and always means mid-afternoon, like when the quails fell in Exodus 16:12. So, “the first day they always had to kill the passover AND REMOVE LEAVEN on” Mark 14:12 Matthew 26:17 Luke 22:7 is one and the same day referred to in John 13:1 “the day before the feast” and in 1Corinthians 11:23, “The Night in which the Lord was betrayed” and “the third hour” 9AM later on THAT SELFSAME DAY still, was crucified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Hales Posted August 11, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 406 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 102 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/14/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted August 11, 2018 On 9/3/2014 at 2:02 AM, justfaith said: Was Jesus crucified on Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday? Jesus was crucified on a Friday. Those who say Jesus was crucified on a Wednesday or Thursday, Take ONE out of context scripture, and reject the [At least seventeen] scriptures that says Jesus rose on the third day, You cannot get the "Third day", from Wednesday or Thursday, to a Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerhard eber Posted August 11, 2018 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 198 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/11/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted August 11, 2018 14 minutes ago, Alan Hales said: Jesus was crucified on a Friday. Those who say Jesus was crucified on a Wednesday or Thursday, Take ONE out of context scripture, and reject the [At least seventeen] scriptures that says Jesus rose on the third day, You cannot get the "Third day", from Wednesday or Thursday, to a Sunday. This is a classic! Fantastic! Really fantastic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerhard eber Posted August 11, 2018 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 198 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/11/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted August 11, 2018 Just show me your text saying ‘~Jesus was crucified on a Friday.~’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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