Hell

[Butch5]

 

 

 

 

Forever and eternal are interchangeable in English, Olam doesn't mean eternal.  It doesn't matter what most Scholars say if it contradicts Scripture. There are statutes in the Mosaic Law that are "olam". In the English translations it is translated forever. Those statutes came to an end, thus they are not forever.

 

 

Olam means beyond, to the unseen. It means eternal based on context. It does not contradict scripture. Olam is used in situations which are clearly eternal.

 

Genesis 9:16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.

 

Will God ever again destroy all life on earth with a judgement of a flood? (Olam)

 

Genesis 21:33 And Abraham planted a grove in Beersheba, and called there on the name of the LORD, the everlasting  God.

 

Is God everlasting? (Olam)

 

You're reading your understanding back into the passage rather than getting it from the passage. Scholars do the same thing with the word "aionios." They say aionois must mean etenral because the believer is promised a never ending existence. However, just like olam, aionios is used of finite periods of time. 

 

Let's go back to the servant passage. If olam can mean eternal then the servant may very well serve the master throughout eternity. There would be no way to determine it other than to force one's belief on the afterlife. 

 

As a general statement, when interpreting Hebrew, it must take context into mind. If God is eternal, everlasting, then Olam must mean everlasting. Forever.  

 

You say it must not mean eternity, but then if what you say is an absolute, then you have to agree that God is not eternal, yet we have too many scripture verses which say otherwise by context.  

 

The problem is, in Hebrew, there are not always absolutes. One translates within the context of the verse.

 

When speaking of an afterlife, you are attempting to prove that hell or the lake of fire is not eternal by trying to say that Olam never means eternal, but it is more then clear that God is called Olam, meaning God is eternal. What you are doing is trying to invalidate the actual meaning of a word, to win your argument. Your claim is that the translators are wrong because they didn't translate to match your understanding. I say the translators are right. Olam should be translated as eternal, everlasting and forever. Experts in Hebrew from varying religious views and differing religions agree that Olam means forever.  You are offering an invalid argument as proof of your view. The logical conclusion based on your argument is that God is not eternal.

 

Your argument is circular reasoning. You said, "If God is eternal, everlasting, then Olam must mean everlasting. Forever." You say God is eternal therefore olam must mean everlasting, however, how have you determined that God is eternal, isn't it because God is olam?

 

You say it must not mean eternity, but then if what you say is an absolute, then you have to agree that God is not eternal, yet we have too many scripture verses which say otherwise by context.

 

Not at all. You said olam means time unseen, I agree with that. How long is time unseen? No one knows because it's unseen. Time unseen could end in five years, or ten years, or it may never end. However, the definition of Olam cannot be eternal because it's unseen, to say olam is eternal the time period must be seen. 

 

 

The problem is, in Hebrew, there are not always absolutes. One translates within the context of the verse.

When speaking of an afterlife, you are attempting to prove that hell or the lake of fire is not eternal by trying to say that Olam never means eternal, but it is more then clear that God is called Olam, meaning God is eternal. What you are doing is trying to invalidate the actual meaning of a word, to win your argument. Your claim is that the translators are wrong because they didn't translate to match your understanding. I say the translators are right. Olam should be translated as eternal, everlasting and forever. Experts in Hebrew from varying religious views and differing religions agree that Olam means forever.  You are offering an invalid argument as proof of your view. The logical conclusion based on your argument is that God is not eternal.

 

No, I'm not trying to prove that Lake of Fire is not eternal by saying olam never means eternal. I can prove that the Lake of Fire is not eternal because Jeremiah said it would one day be made holy to the Lord. However, that God is eternal doesn't mean that olam means eternal, that's drawing a definition from one's theology. If God is eternal and Scripture says that God is love does that mean that love means eternal? Of course not. 

 

You can claim the Scholars are right (it's the appeal to authority fallacy)but when they say something is forever, and Jesus and Paul say it ended, I'm going with Jesus and Paul. If you want to go with the Scholars that's your prerogative. 

 

Your conclusion of my argument is incorrect. Just because olam doesn't mean eternal doesn't mean God is not eternal. There is Scripture that tells us that God is eternal that doesn't use olam or aionios.

 

14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:

15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. (1Ti 6:14-16 KJV)

 

The Greek word translated "immortality" literally means, un-death. One that doesn't die is eternal.

 

7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this. (Isa 9:7 KJV)

 

If one's rule will have no end then that one must live for eternity.

 

24 I said, "O my God, Do not take me away in the midst of my days; Your years are throughout all generations.

25 Of old You laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands.

26 They will perish, but You will endure; Yes, they will all grow old like a garment; Like a cloak You will change them, And they will be changed.

27 But You are the same, And Your years will have no end. (Psa 102:24-27 NKJ)

[justfaith]

Will the devil be totally destroyed or consistanly be burning in the lake of fire ?

[Guest]

Will the devil be totally destroyed or consistanly be burning in the lake of fire ?

 

 

And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city:

 

and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

 

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone,

 

where the beast and the false prophet are,

 

and shall be tormented

 

day and night

 

for ever

 

and

 

ever. Revelation 20:9-10

[Butch5]

Will the devil be totally destroyed or consistanly be burning in the lake of fire ?

 

The prophet Jeremiah prophesied that Gehenna would one day be made holy to the Lord. That would indicate to me that it will not burn forever, thus anything in it will be destroyed

[Guest]

Will the devil be totally destroyed

 

or consistanly be burning in the lake of fire ?

 

The prophet Jeremiah prophesied that Gehenna would one day be made holy to the Lord.

 

That would indicate to me that it will not burn forever,

 

thus anything in it will be destroyed

 

 

Beloved

 

And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye,

 

than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:  Where their worm dieth not,

 

and the fire is not quenched. Mark 9:47-48

 

Do You

 

And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night,

 

these worshipers of the beast and its image,

 

and whoever receives the mark

 

of its name.” Revelation 14:11 (ESV)

 

See

[Butch5]

 

Will the devil be totally destroyed

 

or consistanly be burning in the lake of fire ?

 

The prophet Jeremiah prophesied that Gehenna would one day be made holy to the Lord.

 

That would indicate to me that it will not burn forever,

 

thus anything in it will be destroyed

 

 

Beloved

 

And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye,

 

than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:  Where their worm dieth not,

 

and the fire is not quenched. Mark 9:47-48

 

Do You

 

And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night,

 

these worshipers of the beast and its image,

 

and whoever receives the mark

 

of its name.” Revelation 14:11 (ESV)

 

See

 

Quench means to put out, not go out. The fire will not be put out. The second passage from Rev. 14 is speaking of people who are alive.

[Guest]

Will the devil be totally destroyed

 

or consistanly be burning in the lake of fire ?

 

The prophet Jeremiah prophesied that Gehenna would one day be made holy to the Lord.

 

That would indicate to me that it will not burn forever,

 

thus anything in it will be destroyed

 

 

Beloved

 

And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye,

 

than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:  Where their worm dieth not,

 

and the fire is not quenched. Mark 9:47-48

 

Do You

 

And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night,

 

these worshipers of the beast and its image,

 

and whoever receives the mark

 

of its name.” Revelation 14:11 (ESV)

 

See

 

Quench means to put out, not go out. The fire will not be put out. The second passage from Rev. 14 is speaking of people who are alive.

 

 

Beloved

 

Where their worm dieth not, Mark 9:48

 

It Means

 

and they have no rest, day or night, Revelation 14:11 (ESV

 

What

 

But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

 

Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.  Mark 3:29

 

It Means

 

And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

 

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

 

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

 

For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. Revelation 22:12-15

 

As I See It

 

There is no darkness, nor shadow of death, where the workers of iniquity may hide themselves. Job 34:22

 

~

 

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

 

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

 

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

 

Love, Your Brother Joe

[zhavoney]

Gehenna (The valley of the son of Hinnom). 

 

32 "Therefore behold, the days are coming," says the Lord, "when it will no more be called Tophet, or the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, but "the Valley of Slaughter"; for they will bury in Tophet until there is no room.

[JohnD]

 

You are mixing things together, I'm afraid.

 

The flesh is burned up in the fire. But we are not only flesh are we? We are spirit as well. The worm (human spirit) does not die and is in agony.

 

And Gehenna (the valley of Hinnom where the refuse was burned is likened to sheol not the lake of fire),

 

Folks try explaining away truth with arguments and endless trails of thought / reason.

 

Try just taking God at his word and avoid hell at all costs.

 

 

Nope! Man without the Spirit of God is fully flesh.   3 And the Lord said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years."

 

 

Nope to you, sir. You must also take the over all context of scripture into consideration to get sound doctrine.

 

Proverbs 18:14 (KJV)

 

14 The spirit of a man will sustain his infirmity; but a wounded spirit who can bear?

[zhavoney]

 

 

You are mixing things together, I'm afraid.

 

The flesh is burned up in the fire. But we are not only flesh are we? We are spirit as well. The worm (human spirit) does not die and is in agony.

 

And Gehenna (the valley of Hinnom where the refuse was burned is likened to sheol not the lake of fire),

 

Folks try explaining away truth with arguments and endless trails of thought / reason.

 

Try just taking God at his word and avoid hell at all costs.

 

 

Nope! Man without the Spirit of God is fully flesh.   3 And the Lord said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years."

 

 

Nope to you, sir. You must also take the over all context of scripture into consideration to get sound doctrine.

 

Proverbs 18:14 (KJV)

 

14 The spirit of a man will sustain his infirmity; but a wounded spirit who can bear?

 

 

Proverbs was written by a man who could not save himself even with all his earthly wisdom and knowledge. Besides that scripture doesn't say what you are implying. When man dies we can see His dead body. Corruption has set in within a couple of days as the body rots. The Resurrection from the dead is what The Lord promised those who believe in Him. No one goes anywhere or has anything after they die until they are resurrected back to life from death at the return of Christ.

 

42 The queen of the South will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and indeed a greater than Solomon is here.

 

6 Solomon did evil in the sight of the Lord, and did not fully follow the Lord, as did his father David.