SILENT WOMEN

[enoob57]

It was a joke girls.... I'm not one of those!

[Guest Butero]

While I do agree that women can serve as Pastors, so long as they are not Bishops, as the Bishop must be the husband of one wife and a woman cannot meet that qualification, I reject the conclusions of InChrist.  There is no evidence Adam taught Eve wrong.  She knew full well that she was not to eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and told the serpent that if she did, she would surely die.  The reason why the woman is not to be the head authority in the church was two fold.  The first reason is that Adam was first formed.  That is not a twisting of anything.  It is a fact.  The second reason is that the man was not deceived, but the woman was deceived.  I am not even sure that Adam deliberately disobeyed the command, as the Bible doesn't say that he knew where the fruit came from that Eve gave him.  If he did do it deliberately, what it amounts to is he chose to obey the voice of his wife over the voice of God, and that would be a possible explanation for why the woman is not to be in authority over the man.  None of this has anything to do with the woman needing to learn sound doctrine before they can teach.  Talk about twisting of scripture!  This looks like the kind of nonsense I once encountered at some place called "Christian Think Tank," that was run by false teachers that set up the web-site for no other purpose but to create a way to allow women to be Pastors.  They had no concern if their teachings were true.  They just wanted to make them appear right. 

 

All you have to do to know what InChrist said is wrong is go back to Genesis and Eve's encounter with the serpent.  Was she really taught wrong?  Did she really not know God said not to eat that fruit?  That is what InChrist is claiming.  Adam somehow taught her wrong.  Not according to the story.  She knew what she was doing was wrong, but was deceived by the serpent into not believing God.  She chose to obey the serpent over God in order to gain knowledge she didn't have.

[justfaith]

 

 

There are women who believe women should not serve as pastors  while  there are men who believe women can serve as preachers

 

Does the bible support women pastors or not  ?

 

 

Yes the Bible actually does.

 

Paul had a specific purpose in mind when he wrote these letters to Timothy and that purpose was to remind him of the authority he had to preach against false teachers and their distorted doctrines, this is the entire theme it is soaked up in Pauls letters to Timothy. ( Please everyone keep this context in mind as we discuss the authority of woman)

 

1 Timothy 2:11-15 Empowers Woman

Γυνὴ ἐν ἡσυχίᾳ μανθανέτω ἐν πάσῃ ὑποταγῇ· (original Greek text)

A woman in quietness let learn in all submissiveness

 

Paul pushed hard that woman should learn, why? Because Ephesian women in particular were being led astray by false teachers ( Remember context?). Evidence of this can be found in 2 Timothy 3:6-7. Paul decried that some were turning away and following Satan in 1 Timothy 5:15.

Therefore Paul DEMANDED woman learn sound doctrine first to avoid being deceived from false teachers

 

διδάσκειν δὲ γυναικὶ οὐκ ἐπιτρέπω, οὐδὲ αὐθεντεῖν ἀνδρός, ἀλλ’ εἶναι ἐν ἡσυχίᾳ. (original Greek text)

to teach however a woman not I do not permit nor to use authority over a man but to be in quietness

 

The Greek word for authority is authenteó

a.       according to earlier usage, one who with his own hand kills either others or himself.

b.       in later Greek writings one who does a thing himself the author" (τῆς πράξεως, Polybius 23, 14, 2, etc.); one who acts on his own authority

 

Therefore, its meaning is not authority in general, but an undue, stolen authority. ( Interesting??)

 

So if we look at everything in context, Paul's letter to Timothy about false Teachers and then addressing woman as they are busy getting deceived by false teachings, let them learn sound doctrine first before they can Teach others with legitimate authority.

 

In other words the text reads as follows that while a woman is learning, “I do not permit women to wrongfully teach or to exercise illegitimate authority over a man, but [she is] to be in humble quietness.”

 

1 Timothy 2:11-15 does not bar woman from ever becoming pastors ( Teachers). Woman have just as much Biblical right to become preachers that have been taught with sound doctrine and exercising LEGITIMATE authority over a man as much as Male pastors have who have been taught sound doctrine and exercising LEGITIMATE authority over fellow men.

 

This rubbish of twisting that Paul tells us that the reason women are not to teach or exercise authority over men in the church is that Adam was created first and then Eve. Therefore it’s the created order and Man is the head of the church. What complete utter nonsense.

 

That’s not what Paul is meaning or even teaching, theologically Adam received God’s commands in Genesis 2:16 before Eve even came on the scene. Adam was supposed to teach Eve, but either Adam taught poorly or Eve learned poorly, and she was set up to be DECEIVED.  This doesn’t let Adam of the hook Paul wasn’t letting Adam off as we see in Romans 5 shows that Paul clearly understood that sin entered the world through a MAN. Adam’s sin was his rebellion

 

Adam = Rebellion

Eve = Deceived ( She did not know God’s commands) This is why the woman must learn first in sound doctrine so she will not be deceived by False teachers before she can Teach God’s commands to others including men.

 

Remember Paul reminded them that the Messiah also came from a woman’s womb, so don’t knock a woman’s worth especially as a Preacher.

 

Adam was not deceived by the devil but was deceived by Eve 

[justfaith]

 

While I do agree that women can serve as Pastors, so long as they are not Bishops, as the Bishop must be the husband of one wife and a woman cannot meet that qualification, I reject the conclusions of InChrist.  There is no evidence Adam taught Eve wrong.  She knew full well that she was not to eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and told the serpent that if she did, she would surely die. 

 

 

If you read my post properly I said the following

but either Adam taught poorly OR Eve learned poorly, and she was set up to be DECEIVED.  (please notice the word "or")

 

The first reason is that Adam was first formed.  That is not a twisting of anything.  It is a fact.

 

 

Please read my post properly I did say, theologically Adam received God’s commands in Genesis 2:16 before Eve even came on the scene.

 

The second reason is that the man was not deceived, but the woman was deceived.

 

 

Please read my post properly I said Eve = Deceived

 

I am not even sure that Adam deliberately disobeyed the command, as the Bible doesn't say that he knew where the fruit came from that Eve gave him.  If he did do it deliberately, what it amounts to is he chose to obey the voice of his wife over the voice of God,

 

 

And that my friend is what one calls rebellion if you chose to obey some one else and not obey God...your are....rebelling. 

 

None of this has anything to do with the woman needing to learn sound doctrine before they can teach

 

 

Why did Paul write letters to Timothy? False teaching?

 

Did she really not know God said not to eat that fruit?  That is what InChrist is claiming.

 

 

Deceive

 

deliberately cause (someone) to believe something that is not true, especially for personal gain

 

Eve could not have properly known the commandments otherwise she wouldnt of had difficulty in providing the correct answers to Satan

 

2The woman said to the serpent, "From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat; 3but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.'" 4The serpent said to the woman, "You surely will not die!…

 

 5"For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."…

 

FACT

The glaring error on Eve's part is her mishandling of God's Word. She added to it, saying neither shall ye touch it....clear indication she did not fully understand God's command...Hense why sound doctrine is so important because if we add anything to God's words, Satan has a key to deceive us. It is extremely dangerous to add to God's Word.

 

FACT

EVE diminished God's Word. God had stated emphatically that death would be the consequence of eating of the forbidden fruit, but Eve changed this to "lest ye die," meaning that "ye might die."....again clear indication Eve did not understand God's commands, in other words she did not have sound doctrine...Thus, the groundwork for the Fall had already been laid through adding to and altering the Word of God. Hence why Eve could be so easily deceived...which is again very clear how you have been deceived.

 

There were not to eat nor touch both trees 

[justfaith]

 

 

There are women who believe women should not serve as pastors  while  there are men who believe women can serve as preachers

 

Does the bible support women pastors or not  ?

 

 

Yes the Bible actually does.

 

Paul had a specific purpose in mind when he wrote these letters to Timothy and that purpose was to remind him of the authority he had to preach against false teachers and their distorted doctrines, this is the entire theme it is soaked up in Pauls letters to Timothy. ( Please everyone keep this context in mind as we discuss the authority of woman)

 

1 Timothy 2:11-15 Empowers Woman

Γυνὴ ἐν ἡσυχίᾳ μανθανέτω ἐν πάσῃ ὑποταγῇ· (original Greek text)

A woman in quietness let learn in all submissiveness

 

Paul pushed hard that woman should learn, why? Because Ephesian women in particular were being led astray by false teachers ( Remember context?). Evidence of this can be found in 2 Timothy 3:6-7. Paul decried that some were turning away and following Satan in 1 Timothy 5:15.

Therefore Paul DEMANDED woman learn sound doctrine first to avoid being deceived from false teachers

 

διδάσκειν δὲ γυναικὶ οὐκ ἐπιτρέπω, οὐδὲ αὐθεντεῖν ἀνδρός, ἀλλ’ εἶναι ἐν ἡσυχίᾳ. (original Greek text)

to teach however a woman not I do not permit nor to use authority over a man but to be in quietness

 

The Greek word for authority is authenteó

a.       according to earlier usage, one who with his own hand kills either others or himself.

b.       in later Greek writings one who does a thing himself the author" (τῆς πράξεως, Polybius 23, 14, 2, etc.); one who acts on his own authority

 

Therefore, its meaning is not authority in general, but an undue, stolen authority. ( Interesting??)

 

So if we look at everything in context, Paul's letter to Timothy about false Teachers and then addressing woman as they are busy getting deceived by false teachings, let them learn sound doctrine first before they can Teach others with legitimate authority.

 

In other words the text reads as follows that while a woman is learning, “I do not permit women to wrongfully teach or to exercise illegitimate authority over a man, but [she is] to be in humble quietness.”

 

1 Timothy 2:11-15 does not bar woman from ever becoming pastors ( Teachers). Woman have just as much Biblical right to become preachers that have been taught with sound doctrine and exercising LEGITIMATE authority over a man as much as Male pastors have who have been taught sound doctrine and exercising LEGITIMATE authority over fellow men.

 

This rubbish of twisting that Paul tells us that the reason women are not to teach or exercise authority over men in the church is that Adam was created first and then Eve. Therefore it’s the created order and Man is the head of the church. What complete utter nonsense.

 

That’s not what Paul is meaning or even teaching, theologically Adam received God’s commands in Genesis 2:16 before Eve even came on the scene. Adam was supposed to teach Eve, but either Adam taught poorly or Eve learned poorly, and she was set up to be DECEIVED.  This doesn’t let Adam of the hook Paul wasn’t letting Adam off as we see in Romans 5 shows that Paul clearly understood that sin entered the world through a MAN. Adam’s sin was his rebellion

 

Adam = Rebellion

Eve = Deceived ( She did not know God’s commands) This is why the woman must learn first in sound doctrine so she will not be deceived by False teachers before she can Teach God’s commands to others including men.

 

Remember Paul reminded them that the Messiah also came from a woman’s womb, so don’t knock a woman’s worth especially as a Preacher.

 

Why were women pastors not mentioned in the bible ?

[Sevenseas]

 

 

Adam was not deceived by the devil but was deceived by Eve 

 

That is a false statement.

 

Romans states that sin came through the first man...Adam was not deceived as was Eve.  He sinned.  (Rom 5:12)

 

and yes what Eve did was also a sin...however the Bible nowhere states that Adam was deceived by Eve

 

They committed the same sin but for different reasons...the result was the same for both of them

[Guest Butero]

Eve knew not to eat from that tree.  Lets suppose Adam told her not to touch the tree.  So what?  That isn't going to cause her to be deceived.  The deception was from the serpent, in that he told her she would not surely die.  That wasn't even a lie.  She didn't fall down dead immediately, but she did eventually die. 

 

As for Adam, he was not deceived into believing it was ok to eat the forbidden fruit.  There are two possibilities.  Either Eve saw that she didn't immediately die, and she brought the fruit to Adam and he ate, not knowing where it came from, or he saw she had eaten it and now had the advantage of knowing good and evil, and he wanted the same knowledge so he ate.  That would be outright rebellion, but not a deception.  The woman did know better.  She was taught properly. 

 

Lets look at this example.  Lets say I have a small child, and I know there is a danger in him playing in the road, so I tell him not to play in the road, lest he be run over, but I add one thing to this.  I tell him not to play in the road, and not to even get near the road.  He knows not to go in the road, lest he could get run over, and I added that extra thing about not going near the road for his added safety.  Eve thinking it was wrong to touch the tree didn't mean she was misinformed. 

[Sevenseas]

I don't suppose anything.  I prefer not to imagine scenarios as scripture tells us not to do that actually.

 

Did you find something wrong in what I responded with?

 

And Eve sinned.  I said she did...that is obvious.

 

There are no possibilities with regards to Eve deceiving Adam.  The serpent deceived Eve.  Eve was not the serpent.

 

I guess that is a lesson for anyone who wants to claim ignorance when they sin....that is, when a person hears the truth, knows the truth and then proceeds anyway.

 

I think problems occur when someone wants to peak behind the curtain that has already been raised on the scene

[Sevenseas]

This just in:   (from yet another thread wanting to discuss what has been discussed ad infinitum)

 

 

 

Joyce Meyer is a known pastor that's a women.

 

 

shoot on sight.......

 

honestly

[justfaith]

I don't suppose anything.  I prefer not to imagine scenarios as scripture tells us not to do that actually.

 

Did you find something wrong in what I responded with?

 

And Eve sinned.  I said she did...that is obvious.

 

There are no possibilities with regards to Eve deceiving Adam.  The serpent deceived Eve.  Eve was not the serpent.

 

I guess that is a lesson for anyone who wants to claim ignorance when they sin....that is, when a person hears the truth, knows the truth and then proceeds anyway.

 

I think problems occur when someone wants to peak behind the curtain that has already been raised on the scene

Eve eyes was open first thus she knew evil and what she had done thus giving Adam the fruit with knowledge of what would be the result thus she deceived Adam