Bonky Posted November 18, 2015 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 6 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 738 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 346 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/28/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted November 18, 2015 (edited) Who was Paul speaking to in Romans 1:18? I'll bet it wasn't atheists. Edited November 18, 2015 by Bonky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted November 18, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,393 Content Per Day: 8.00 Reputation: 21,566 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Who was Paul speaking to in Romans 1:18? I'll bet it wasn't atheists.Paul is writing to a Roman church to a people he had heard of but never, as yet, met! So He is basically addressing the synopsis of thenew covenant written in Jesus The Christ's blood... chapt. 1-3 is the condemnation of the whole world of sin and all are held accountableby the creative Word itself- so that man is without excuse of the "I didn't know" scenario. So yes context is directly at atheist for they are bornin the same creative element as all else and this alone God will judge them by it! Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Thallasa Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 No. It would make no difference to atheists. They explain away creation and the very order of the universe through any semi feasible explanation so they would do the same with all supernatural. It would depend on the Atheist. Many Atheists turn to Jesus every day. There are two types of Atheist - those who simply don't believe and those that don't want to believe (they have already rejected God). Your comment would apply to the latter. The former group are merely seekers who haven't found yet. It's nice to see a sensible comment like this one. On the other thread they were essentially stating that all atheists are liars. If God is AND God is true THEN ALL men are liars including me Yes , but not women Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Thallasa Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 (edited) we as Christians even discuss such things in such detail? All we are really doing is giving satan airtime he does not deserve.I entirely agree .I think it is dangerous to give any time at all .All our time ,and energy on Jesus our beloved . That is happiness and strength . Edited November 18, 2015 by Thallasa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Thallasa Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 (edited) I considered myself an atheist for two years, after I left Christianity the first time. And I'd have to say no, that 'proving' that Satan exists wouldn't really convince an atheist of good vs evil, or that God exists. Faith doesn't require evidence, but that said, when you are an atheist, you just grow indifferent to the idea of a deity existing. You aren't angry with the idea of it, you just are indifferent. That's how I felt anyway, at that time. I was led back to faith by the Holy Spirit, and i think praying for God to reveal Himself to others as He did with me, is how I think atheists may change their minds. But, they also need to change their hearts.i see a little problem in my case, which might not be at all applicable to all atheists. I cannot possibly believe or disbelieve a God because of the heart. The moment my heart takes over, is the moment I am double skeptic of what it tells me. I cannot help but feel a natural predisposition or instinct to default to belief in something my heart likes. A predisposition that I must compensate via other means, in order to avoid an unsubstantiated bias toward certain claims.If I will ever believe in a God, that will only happen via a process of rational analysis, for I beleve the heart is quite unreliable when it comes to determine the existence of objective ontological realities. Yet you said "i am not sure I understand the concept of sin, yet. But I bet it is not a sin if you say something false, if in your heart you believe it is true."Excellent. I like you. So, how do I get out of this corner? I would say that what your heart tells you is indeed unreliable, and yet, you are stll not a liar if you hold it true. I don't think you're in a corner, but if now we are speaking of relative truth vs. fact ( and / or ) one's definition of a lie.I guess the question is, can someone believe something that is not truth, espouse that belief, and not espouse a lie ?to be honest with you, I like corners. Getting out of them or changing my mind to escape is always enriching. How boring would that be if I were absolutely certain about everything!And to answer your question...no. She/he is not a liar. I expect that many if not all of my beliefs or knowledge is not true. Newton thought that his theory of gravitation was correct. It was not. That did not make him a liar.i posit we are liars only when we believe something is not true, but we say it is. So, we can be liars while saying things, that can be ultimately true, if we believe they are false. Okay, but now we come to the other side;If someone believes that something is not true, does it change the fact ( and or circumstances / consequences ) if it IS indeed true ? Well if I am blind ,but insist that what I cannot see, does not exist ,I am a liar ; probably because of pride , or shame in not being able to see . Better to say I cannot see ,can you help me, by describing as well as possible what you are seeing ? Edited November 18, 2015 by Thallasa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Deidre* Posted November 19, 2015 Group: Senior Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 521 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 608 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/03/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted November 19, 2015 I considered myself an atheist for two years, after I left Christianity the first time. And I'd have to say no, that 'proving' that Satan exists wouldn't really convince an atheist of good vs evil, or that God exists. Faith doesn't require evidence, but that said, when you are an atheist, you just grow indifferent to the idea of a deity existing. You aren't angry with the idea of it, you just are indifferent. That's how I felt anyway, at that time. I was led back to faith by the Holy Spirit, and i think praying for God to reveal Himself to others as He did with me, is how I think atheists may change their minds. But, they also need to change their hearts. I understand. But, God isn't worried about what you believe. He loves you, and it is hard to imagine such a love as this. Because the world is not filled with love, but rather a lot of bad stuff. It is filled with beauty too, but God's love trumps anything this world can offer. is that true that God is not worried about what I believe? Sounds like good news for people like me God cares about what you believe. If he did not, then he would not have sacrificed his Son's life to save yours. "First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time." (I Timothy 2:1-6 ESV) I didn't say 'care'...I said He is not 'worried.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted November 19, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.98 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted November 19, 2015 No. It would make no difference to atheists. They explain away creation and the very order of the universe through any semi feasible explanation so they would do the same with all supernatural. It would depend on the Atheist. Many Atheists turn to Jesus every day. There are two types of Atheist - those who simply don't believe and those that don't want to believe (they have already rejected God). Your comment would apply to the latter. The former group are merely seekers who haven't found yet. It's nice to see a sensible comment like this one. On the other thread they were essentially stating that all atheists are liars. If God is AND God is true THEN ALL men are liars including me Yes , but not women Men of the wo variety are men indeed AND liars too wo+man=woman or woe unto man for I am not sure though many whoo man too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siegi91 Posted November 20, 2015 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 12 Topic Count: 35 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,817 Content Per Day: 1.19 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted November 20, 2015 I considered myself an atheist for two years, after I left Christianity the first time. And I'd have to say no, that 'proving' that Satan exists wouldn't really convince an atheist of good vs evil, or that God exists. Faith doesn't require evidence, but that said, when you are an atheist, you just grow indifferent to the idea of a deity existing. You aren't angry with the idea of it, you just are indifferent. That's how I felt anyway, at that time. I was led back to faith by the Holy Spirit, and i think praying for God to reveal Himself to others as He did with me, is how I think atheists may change their minds. But, they also need to change their hearts. I understand. But, God isn't worried about what you believe. He loves you, and it is hard to imagine such a love as this. Because the world is not filled with love, but rather a lot of bad stuff. It is filled with beauty too, but God's love trumps anything this world can offer. is that true that God is not worried about what I believe? Sounds like good news for people like me He would like you to believe, because that's how much He loves you. I don't know if God 'worries' in the same sense we do. lol He is God, after all. But, He wants us to live our best lives, and that honestly and truly can only be done through Him. I stopped believing that for a while, and my life was like living in a black and white movie. And since returning to faith, feeling born again, my life is now in color. Please, indulge my ignorance about Christianity, but I am receiving posts that do not seem to harmonize themselves. I am happy your life is in color now, but I am slightly more interested in what our afterlife will look like, if any. Which is obvious, considering that eternity basically annihilates any value our lives can have for a few decades here on earth. Let us assume that I end my life as an unbeliever, while having lived the best of lives; will I go to Heaven? siegi :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siegi91 Posted November 20, 2015 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 12 Topic Count: 35 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,817 Content Per Day: 1.19 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) if someone believes that something is not true, and says it is true, then he is a liar. Independently from that something being true or not. My opinion. i do not believe in God. Never did, However, God could exist or not, independently from my beliefs, or lack thereof. If I joined this forum claiming that God obviously exists, wouldn't I be a liar, considering that you probably think that God is, indeed, true? siegi Edited November 20, 2015 by siegi91 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siegi91 Posted November 20, 2015 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 12 Topic Count: 35 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,817 Content Per Day: 1.19 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted November 20, 2015 .Please, indulge my ignorance about Christianity, but I am receiving posts that do not seem to harmonize themselves. I am happy your life is in color now, but I am slightly more interested in what our afterlife will look like, if any. Which is obvious, considering that eternity basically annihilates any value our lives can have for a few decades here on earth.Let us assume that I end my life as an unbeliever, while having lived the best of lives; will I go to Heaven?siegiNomay I ask, why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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