NY man killed by policeman

[Guest shiloh357]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the protesters may have more popular support in America than may be thought. The protesters are pretty big and all, but it's not necassarily the thousands of people that go out and protest, it's the dozens, if not hundreds that watch and agree but aren't the type to protest.

That would be quite a limb to go out on seeing the these people (who do not deserve to be called "protesters")  are hurting everyone else.  They are carrying on in a way that is really inconveniencing other Americans.

 

These people block intersections and roadways.  They keep people from getting work on time and for some people it could cost them their jobs.  They are trying feed their children and these people standing out there blocking the street are hurting black people.  They talk about supporting the rights of black people while they burn down businesses that black people were employed at. 

 

They keep people from being able to pick their children at school or at the daycare, they keep ambulances and fire trucks from answering emergency calls and they end up putting people in danger.

 

Just the other day in NY someone ran their car over 4 police officers who were escorting some of the people people and the crowd cheered for the person who hit the police officers, and said "hit 'em again!"

 

These people are a disgrace to civil rights and people like Rosa Parks and MLK must be rolling over their graves.  Their have been actual civil rights violations and these people  have no legitimate cause.

 

So since they are interfering with the lives of average Americans who just want to go to work and take care of their families and since they are impeding emergency personnel from doing their jobs,  it would be quite a limb get out on a claim that they are getting more support from other Americans.  If they wanted support, they are going about getting it the wrong way.

[Burning_Ember]

I wasn't really debating about that, I was remarking that I don't see how the protests are going to be stopped in any way. They've more or less hit the point where it's simply going to continue.

[Guest shiloh357]

I wasn't really debating about that, I was remarking that I don't see how the protests are going to be stopped in any way. They've more or less hit the point where it's simply going to continue.

I was speaking to your point about their popularity.  You were claiming that they probably enjoy more support than we think.  My responses was that they probably don't given their activities are keeping Americans from doing their jobs and taking care their families.  These people you mistakenly call protesters are nothing more than troublemakers.   Yeah, they will probably  keep going.  And the longer they keep droning on and on about a non-issue, the more and more they get in everyone's way, the more and more unpopular they are going to get. Frankly, it is going to get really old and the average American is just going to turn them off.

[Burning_Ember]

 

I wasn't really debating about that, I was remarking that I don't see how the protests are going to be stopped in any way. They've more or less hit the point where it's simply going to continue.

I was speaking to your point about their popularity.  You were claiming that they probably enjoy more support than we think.  My responses was that they probably don't given their activities are keeping Americans from doing their jobs and taking care their families.  These people you mistakenly call protesters are nothing more than troublemakers.   Yeah, they will probably  keep going.  And the longer they keep droning on and on about a non-issue, the more and more they get in everyone's way, the more and more unpopular they are going to get. Frankly, it is going to get really old and the average American is just going to turn them off.

 

The problem with your argument is that most of the protesters don't run over police officers. They are not violent in that they are not assaulting anybody. Most of the time they may block roadways, sure, at which point they will sit down in a line, link arms, and get blasted by pepper spray. 

 

But the issue they are talking about isn't going away, because every time the police use what the protesters refer to as excessive force, or when the justice system fails, it is simply more motivation for therm to protest.

 

When I see counter-protesters in larger crowds than the protesters I'll believe that they are widely unpopular.

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

I wasn't really debating about that, I was remarking that I don't see how the protests are going to be stopped in any way. They've more or less hit the point where it's simply going to continue.

I was speaking to your point about their popularity.  You were claiming that they probably enjoy more support than we think.  My responses was that they probably don't given their activities are keeping Americans from doing their jobs and taking care their families.  These people you mistakenly call protesters are nothing more than troublemakers.   Yeah, they will probably  keep going.  And the longer they keep droning on and on about a non-issue, the more and more they get in everyone's way, the more and more unpopular they are going to get. Frankly, it is going to get really old and the average American is just going to turn them off.

 

The problem with your argument is that most of the protesters don't run over police officers.

And if that were my argument, you would have a point.

 

 

They are not violent in that they are not assaulting anybody. Most of the time they may block roadways, sure, at which point they will sit down in a line, link arms, and get blasted by pepper spray. 

 

Yes, and how is blocking the road so that people can't get to work or pick their children, helping their cause or winning the hearts of the average American?  How is keeping black people from getting work, helping black people???   My point is that they are no longer "protesting."  They are a public nuisance. 

 

 

But the issue they are talking about isn't going away, because every time the police use what the protesters refer to as excessive force, or when the justice system fails, it is simply more motivation for therm to protest.

 

Their "issue" is a non-issue.  In neither the Brown or Garner case, was excessive force used. Neither case was racially motivated violence on the part of the police.  In both cases, Brown and Garner resisted arrest.  Brown, a felon, assaulted a police officer and tried to over power Wilson and Wilson fired His weapon in self-defense.  That's not excessive force.   Garner died because of an asthma attack, not because of excessive force.   The choke hold that was used against him would not have killed another person who was not suffering from asthma and the assortment of other health issues that Garner was suffering from.   I don't agree with the officer using the choke hold, but the choke hold was not deadly force. 

 

The justice system didn't fail.   Just because you don't like the outcome doesn't mean the system failed.   It means that the evidence shows that the police did not use excessive force and their actions were not racially motivated.   You don't like the verdict but that is not a indicator of any failure of our justice system.  The system did exactly what it is supposed to do.

 

You seem okay with the courts when they rule in favor of issues you support.  You are quick to lecture us about having to respect the decisions of the courts.  But I can see that when the courts don't rule the way you want to, you suddenly act like it's failure on their part just because you don't agree with the outcome.  You are operating from a double standard that only respects the court's decision when it is a decision you like.

 

 

When I see counter-protesters in larger crowds than the protesters I'll believe that they are widely unpopular.

 

 

The reason you don't see counter-protesters is because the average American has to go to work and hold down a job.  They have bills to pay.  They have to take their kids to school.  Unlike your so-called "protesters,"  they are hardworking Americans who don't have time to engage in some neurotic obsession over two incidents that do not reflect the overall relationship that police have with the minorities in this country.     These Americans have families to raise and don't have time to go out stand in the street and keep other hardworking Americans from getting to work and earning a living.

 

Just because you don't see counter protesters doesn't mean your "protesters" are popular.  They are clearly in the minority and they don't speak for most people in the country.  They don't even speak for most African Americans.

[Burning_Ember]

 

 

 

I wasn't really debating about that, I was remarking that I don't see how the protests are going to be stopped in any way. They've more or less hit the point where it's simply going to continue.

I was speaking to your point about their popularity.  You were claiming that they probably enjoy more support than we think.  My responses was that they probably don't given their activities are keeping Americans from doing their jobs and taking care their families.  These people you mistakenly call protesters are nothing more than troublemakers.   Yeah, they will probably  keep going.  And the longer they keep droning on and on about a non-issue, the more and more they get in everyone's way, the more and more unpopular they are going to get. Frankly, it is going to get really old and the average American is just going to turn them off.

 

The problem with your argument is that most of the protesters don't run over police officers.

And if that were my argument, you would have a point.

 

 

They are not violent in that they are not assaulting anybody. Most of the time they may block roadways, sure, at which point they will sit down in a line, link arms, and get blasted by pepper spray. 

 

Yes, and how is blocking the road so that people can't get to work or pick their children, helping their cause or winning the hearts of the average American?  How is keeping black people from getting work, helping black people???   My point is that they are no longer "protesting."  They are a public nuisance. 

 

 

But the issue they are talking about isn't going away, because every time the police use what the protesters refer to as excessive force, or when the justice system fails, it is simply more motivation for therm to protest.

 

Their "issue" is a non-issue.  In neither the Brown or Garner case, was excessive force used. Neither case was racially motivated violence on the part of the police.  In both cases, Brown and Garner resisted arrest.  Brown, a felon, assaulted a police officer and tried to over power Wilson and Wilson fired His weapon in self-defense.  That's not excessive force.   Garner died because of an asthma attack, not because of excessive force.   The choke hold that was used against him would not have killed another person who was not suffering from asthma and the assortment of other health issues that Garner was suffering from.   I don't agree with the officer using the choke hold, but the choke hold was not deadly force. 

 

The justice system didn't fail.   Just because you don't like the outcome doesn't mean the system failed.   It means that the evidence shows that the police did not use excessive force and their actions were not racially motivated.   You don't like the verdict but that is not a indicator of any failure of our justice system.  The system did exactly what it is supposed to do.

 

You seem okay with the courts when they rule in favor of issues you support.  You are quick to lecture us about having to respect the decisions of the courts.  But I can see that when the courts don't rule the way you want to, you suddenly act like it's failure on their part just because you don't agree with the outcome.  You are operating from a double standard that only respects the court's decision when it is a decision you like.

 

 

When I see counter-protesters in larger crowds than the protesters I'll believe that they are widely unpopular.

 

 

The reason you don't see counter-protesters is because the average American has to go to work and hold down a job.  They have bills to pay.  They have to take their kids to school.  Unlike your so-called "protesters,"  they are hardworking Americans who don't have time to engage in some neurotic obsession over two incidents that do not reflect the overall relationship that police have with the minorities in this country.     These Americans have families to raise and don't have time to go out stand in the street and keep other hardworking Americans from getting to work and earning a living.

 

Just because you don't see counter protesters doesn't mean your "protesters" are popular.  They are clearly in the minority and they don't speak for most people in the country.  They don't even speak for most African Americans.

 

Plenty of the protesters have jobs as well. They may be students. Let's look up what protest means in the dictionary.

 

"an expression or declaration of objection, disapproval, or dissent, often in opposition to something a person is powerless to prevent or avoid:"

 

A protester is simply someone who does that. That is what the protesters are doing. They are expressing dissent. Nothing there says anything about how they are supposed to do it.

 

They may hold up those two cases, but it's far from being about that. They are protesting, for example, that the municipality of Ferguson gets 25% of all it's income from tickets, in a poor area. When people are too poor and get ticket after ticket, they are issued warrants for their arrest. When they are arrested, that affects their ability to get a job in an already tough job market. I can't think of a city in Canada that does that. You clearly don't know much about why they are protesting if you think it's just about a neurotic obsession over two cases.

 

What proof do you have that they are in the minority?

[shoes_untied]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the protesters may have more popular support in America than may be thought. The protesters are pretty big and all, but it's not necassarily the thousands of people that go out and protest, it's the dozens, if not hundreds that watch and agree but aren't the type to protest.

 

You are absolutely right.  Mathematically it just makes sense.  If you assume that 100% of the protesters are supportive, then you add in those who don't protest for a variety of reasons but are glad it's happening, and thirdly add in those who are in quiet agreement, you will have a larger pool than what is publicly recognized.

[ayin jade]

I wasn't really debating about that, I was remarking that I don't see how the protests are going to be stopped in any way. They've more or less hit the point where it's simply going to continue.

 

They are continuing because of people like sharpton who incite things that give sharpton and his ilk power. 

[ayin jade]

Mathematically, more people support the ferguson police than are against them. More people think the protestors are wrong than support them. 

 

http://today.yougov.com/news/2014/08/22/public-opinion-hardens-against-ferguson-residents/

 

Im sure you can find more recent results that support what I posted.

[shoes_untied]

 

I wasn't really debating about that, I was remarking that I don't see how the protests are going to be stopped in any way. They've more or less hit the point where it's simply going to continue.

 

They are continuing because of people like sharpton who incite things that give sharpton and his ilk power. 

 

 

Al Sharpton has little to nothing to do with most of these protests.  Most people protesting would be hard pressed to site the last time they have even heard Al Sharpton speak.  These protests are occurring because the masses want to live in a world where black lives are valued and not dismissed, who's lives are put on trial when they are killed by a white person, and are considered guilty until proven innocent.