Messianic Judaism

[M45510G1C]

Greetings all, I have been a member of these boardas for some time now, but have elected not to post in this particular forum. I believe the Lord has led me, in my walk with Him to post here now. This is an issue I have had a great struggle with, and I hope you all will bear with me as I attempt to gain understanding. I am a Jew, by birth, so this issue is somewhat relevant to me and my walk.

I understand that many feel very strongly on this topic, my intent is not to provoke anyone, or stir up trouble.

The issue I am having is; Why Messianic Judaism?

That is to say, why a distinct movement apart from traditional Christianity? Are we not able to retain our Jewish heritage from within the church? Is Messianic Judaism fostering unity or division?

I understand that many Messianic Jews were, indeed, born and raised as Jews, and the idea of attending a tradiitional Christian service is therefore foreign, perhaps making them very uncomfortable. This is totally understandable.

I have attended both Christian and Messianic Jewish services, and I tend to see better fruit in the Messianic services, perhaps that is just me, I don't know. It seems that the Messianic movement is still full of life, while many Christian churches are stagnating, almost mourning their faith rather than celebrating it.

In Ephesians, Paul tells us that we are "one new man"

"...by abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments and ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,"

Is the Messianic movement at odds with this teaching? Also, does Paul indicate here that we are not to be concerned with Mosaic law anymore, seemingly at odds with other NT teaching?

Again, my intent is not to anger or provoke, but to understand, this particular passage of scripture has been really nagging at me lately.

[Dad Ernie]

I have attended both Christian and Messianic Jewish services, and I tend to see better fruit in the Messianic services, perhaps that is just me, I don't know.  It seems that the Messianic movement is still full of life, while many Christian churches are stagnating, almost mourning their faith rather than celebrating it. 

In Ephesians, Paul tells us that we are "one new man"

"...by abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments and ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,"

Is the Messianic movement at odds with this teaching?  Also, does Paul indicate here that we are not to be concerned with Mosaic law anymore, seemingly at odds with other NT teaching?

Again, my intent is not to anger or provoke, but to understand, this particular passage of scripture has been really nagging at me lately.

Greetings M4,

I see a distinction between the gentile church and the Messianic Jewish church only because of what you have already noted. I believe the gentile church should investigate their heritage a lot more than the do, which is almost nill. I am reminded of:

Romans 11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

Romans 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

I have been disappointed with the "gentile Messianic" churches, but I have been greatly impressed with the true Jewish Messianic churches. However, we have some gentile Messianics on this forum whom I esteem because of their desire to seek and to understand their Jewish heritage, that is Messiah Yeshua.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Guest yod]

I understand that many feel very strongly on this topic, my intent is not to provoke anyone, or stir up trouble.

are you kidding? This is my favorite topic!! woo hoo! A son of Abraham has come home!!

The issue I am having is; Why Messianic Judaism?

That is to say, why a distinct movement apart from traditional Christianity?

Since the church started as a jewish expression of faith in the Messiah of Israel, it seems like that question is backwards. In other words, who started a distinct movement against whom?

Regardless, we are still one body with one baptism and one Holy Spirit under One Lord, Yeshua, who is over all.

I think of the distinctions as the colors of a peacock's feather. They serve to make the whole thing beautiful.

Are we not able to retain our Jewish heritage from within the church? Is Messianic Judaism fostering unity or division?

Both.

Those churches who can accept messianic jews as "true Israel" are becoming united. Those who think jews should strictly adhere to a western cultural expression of christianity can't accept it.

The reverse is also true. Those messianic congregations who accept gentiles as fully brethren are healthy and growing. But then there are some messianic congregations who insist that everybody "observe" Torah by a particularly rigid interpretation of the letter

But thankfully most congregations are the graceful ones.

I have attended both Christian and Messianic Jewish services, and I tend to see better fruit in the Messianic services, perhaps that is just me, I don't know. It seems that the Messianic movement is still full of life, while many Christian churches are stagnating, almost mourning their faith rather than celebrating it.

I see the true church without walls rising up in all of these places.

There are lots of churches who are annually observing the Passover, Pentecost, and/or the Feast of Tabernacles. I suppose 3 out of 7 ain't too bad??

In Ephesians, Paul tells us that we are "one new man"

"...by abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments and ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,"

Is the Messianic movement at odds with this teaching?

Of course not! But it does seem like everyone has their own interpretation of what the "one new man" should look like.

Are you anywhere near Orlando, Manhattan, or Palm Springs CA? There will be 3 huge events called "Road to Jerusalem" this year for the intent purpose of helping to foster this understanding in the church AND in messianic congregations.

Also, does Paul indicate here that we are not to be concerned with Mosaic law anymore, seemingly at odds with other NT teaching?

Now that might start some real discussion...but I don't it is a totally accurate characterization of Paul's teachings.

The Torah is useful for instruction in righteousness

No one will be saved by the observance of Torah but it is the Torah by which your works are judged. You will be found guilty of that standard! Wretched man that I am! Who will save me from this body of sin and death???

Yeshua!

[Guest Jacee]

Hello

I am a gentile christian by description from the church but actually a jew by description of the scriptures. And am married to a messianic jew who is really a true spiritual jew same as I. We are members of the one body Jesus Christ. I was raised in a denomination; was no where near any groups of jewish christians. And when reading of unity as described in Ephesians 4, in my mind I was thinking unity of all the churches. Which by the way is something that should be but definitely isn't. But not so now. The unity is of the jewish and gentile believer. And what is dividing us is the pagan holidays that the christian church observes, which mean nothing concerning truth. So what will cause unity? Maybe persecution.

There is a wonderful move of God now with messianic jews reaching out to the christians. And am glad to be a part of it. And want to be more active with this move. So am just showing support here I guess. God bless!

[M45510G1C]

Thanks for all of the input, its has been quite helpful.

I was of the opinion that the Mosaic law was commanded expressly to the Jews, and that the gentiles need not concern themselves with it, excepting accorsing to the guidelines in Acts 15:19-20.

Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

Someone recently pointred out ot me, however, that the passage continues with verse 21: "For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day" which seems ot suggest to me that they are saying something to the effect of "We aren't gonna lay all of this upon you right now, here are the most vital things, the rest you can hear in the synagogues"

Is this an accurate assessment?

If, so, what is Galatians 3:19 and 23-25 suggesting?

Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

It seems to me that Galatians is saying once we were under the law, but now, through Christ, we are not.

Any commentary would be appreciated, thanks!

[Guest yod]

Lemme see if I can make this concise and brief...

Even in the days of Moses the Torah spoke to the hearts of men instead of their actions but being the sinful creatures we are, some would find a way around the purpose of a law by only obeying the letter of it. Like the law of divorce for example...God never intended that it happen...yet an allowance was made because of the hardness of men's hearts.

In Matthew 5, Yeshua teaches us that the spirit of the law is what is important. For example, it is written that you shall not commit adultery but the spirit of that law is broken if you lust after a married woman. Are these laws void by virtue of Yeshua's resurrection? Of course not!

So what is Rav Shaul (Paul) talking about?

The Torah is very clear that worship of the God of Israel was to be in ONE place which He appointed to be the Tabernacle and later the Temple in Jerusalem. Until the year 70 when the Temple was destroyed it was punishable by death to set up an altar to YHVH anywhere else. I have personally seen the altars in Arad and in Tel Dan where the Israelites set up their own little "temple" to YHVH because Jerusalem was a long journey away. Even though these places were started in "honor" of YHVH they were considered as wicked as any high place of baal worship.

In John 4 Yeshua is asked about this by a Samaritan woman...

19

[Guest hbomb5]

Well the issue at hand need to be addressed,however, I'm not the person to answer at this time. I'm an African-American servant,child, son, friend, ect... ect... of the LORD. I have some great concerns regarding the name inwhich the majority of christians refer to as being the name of our Messiah. Not only that but some bibles(NT) have the name Elisha replaced with the name eliseus, which means God (Elohim) is zeus. pretty scary huh!!! There's more, but waiting for you to reply. I truly believe that Yahshua/ Yeshua has died for all of our sins, and then was resurrected from the dead.

Greetings all, I have been a member of these boardas for some time now, but have elected not to post in this particular forum.  I believe the Lord has led me, in my walk with Him to post here now.  This is an issue I have had a great struggle with, and I hope you all will bear with me as I attempt to gain understanding.  I am a Jew, by birth, so this issue is somewhat relevant to me and my walk.

I understand that many feel very strongly on this topic, my intent is not to provoke anyone, or stir up trouble.

The issue I am having is; Why Messianic Judaism?

That is to say, why a distinct movement apart from traditional Christianity?  Are we not able to retain our Jewish heritage from within the church?  Is Messianic Judaism fostering unity or division?

I understand that many Messianic Jews were, indeed, born and raised as Jews, and the idea of attending a tradiitional Christian service is therefore foreign, perhaps making them very uncomfortable.  This is totally understandable. 

I have attended both Christian and Messianic Jewish services, and I tend to see better fruit in the Messianic services, perhaps that is just me, I don't know.  It seems that the Messianic movement is still full of life, while many Christian churches are stagnating, almost mourning their faith rather than celebrating it. 

In Ephesians, Paul tells us that we are "one new man"

"...by abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments and ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,"

Is the Messianic movement at odds with this teaching?  Also, does Paul indicate here that we are not to be concerned with Mosaic law anymore, seemingly at odds with other NT teaching?

Again, my intent is not to anger or provoke, but to understand, this particular passage of scripture has been really nagging at me lately.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Guest hbomb5]

Well the issue at hand need to be addressed,however, I'm not the person to answer at this time. I'm an African-American servant,child, son, friend, ect... ect... of the LORD. I have some great concerns regarding the name inwhich the majority of christians refer to as being the name of our Messiah. Not only that but some bibles(NT) have the name Elisha replaced with the name eliseus, which means God (Elohim) is zeus(Luke 4:27). pretty scary huh!!! There's more, but waiting for you to reply. I truly believe that Yahshua/ Yeshua has died for all of our sins, and then was resurrected from the dead.

Greetings all, I have been a member of these boardas for some time now, but have elected not to post in this particular forum.  I believe the Lord has led me, in my walk with Him to post here now.  This is an issue I have had a great struggle with, and I hope you all will bear with me as I attempt to gain understanding.  I am a Jew, by birth, so this issue is somewhat relevant to me and my walk.

I understand that many feel very strongly on this topic, my intent is not to provoke anyone, or stir up trouble.

The issue I am having is; Why Messianic Judaism?

That is to say, why a distinct movement apart from traditional Christianity?  Are we not able to retain our Jewish heritage from within the church?  Is Messianic Judaism fostering unity or division?

I understand that many Messianic Jews were, indeed, born and raised as Jews, and the idea of attending a tradiitional Christian service is therefore foreign, perhaps making them very uncomfortable.  This is totally understandable. 

I have attended both Christian and Messianic Jewish services, and I tend to see better fruit in the Messianic services, perhaps that is just me, I don't know.  It seems that the Messianic movement is still full of life, while many Christian churches are stagnating, almost mourning their faith rather than celebrating it. 

In Ephesians, Paul tells us that we are "one new man"

"...by abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments and ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,"

Is the Messianic movement at odds with this teaching?  Also, does Paul indicate here that we are not to be concerned with Mosaic law anymore, seemingly at odds with other NT teaching?

Again, my intent is not to anger or provoke, but to understand, this particular passage of scripture has been really nagging at me lately.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Guest hbomb5]

Well the issue at hand need to be addressed,however, I'm not the person to answer at this time. I'm an African-American servant,child, son, friend, ect... ect... of the LORD. I have some great concerns regarding the name inwhich the majority of christians refer to as being the name of our Messiah. Not only that but some bibles(NT) have the name Elisha replaced with the name eliseus, which means God (Elohim) is zeus(Luke 4:27). pretty scary huh!!! There's more, but waiting for you to reply. I truly believe that Yahshua/ Yeshua has died for all of our sins, and then was resurrected from the dead.

[Guest yod]

Beware of straining gnats and swallowing a camel. That "holy name" stuff is replete with error, brother.

Don't worry about anything but following after your first love and the rest will fall into place as the Ruach guides you.