Mark777 Posted June 10, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 416 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/16/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 10, 2006 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory. (Ephesians 1:11-14.) ---------- 1. We HAVE obtained an inheritance. 2. We were predestined according to HIS purpose. 3. God works all things in accordance to HIS will - "...I will lose nothing." 4. In God we were SEALED with the Holy Spirit - we were sealed in God. 5. We are God's own possession - we are not our own. God predestined us to be His possession. We were lost and inslaved to sin. God bought us and keeps us IN HIM - sealed by His Spirit. Amen!! Amen!! Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark777 Posted June 10, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 416 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/16/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 10, 2006 Dr. Sam Storms Enjoying God Ministries Hebrews 6:4-6 and the Possibility of Apostasy This is undoubtedly one of the most controversial and frequently debated passages in all of Scripture. It would not be going too far to say that those who believe a genuine believer can forfeit (or lose) his/her salvation appeal to this passage more often than any other. Read the passage closely. Who are these people who Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjw47 Posted June 10, 2006 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 83 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/09/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 10, 2006 (edited) Dr. Sam Storms Enjoying God Ministries Hebrews 6:4-6 and the Possibility of Apostasy This is undoubtedly one of the most controversial and frequently debated passages in all of Scripture. It would not be going too far to say that those who believe a genuine believer can forfeit (or lose) his/her salvation appeal to this passage more often than any other. Read the passage closely. Who are these people who Edited June 10, 2006 by kjw47 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark777 Posted June 10, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 416 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/16/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 10, 2006 (edited) It isn't our heart that determines salvation. (None can come to Jesus unless the Father draw him.) It is God's love and righteousness that determines the duration of salvation and God has declared it eternal - non ending - forever. Jesus said I will lose nothing. You are right, man knows little ...... but God knows and He has declared the duration and value of salvation for believers. When we believe Jesus he gives us eteranl life - a life that can never perish or be corrupted - 1 Peter 1:23, John 3:16 etc Mark Edited June 10, 2006 by Mark777 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjw47 Posted June 10, 2006 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 83 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/09/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 10, 2006 It isn't our heart that determines salvation. (None can come to Jesus unless the Father draw him.) It is God's love and righteousness that determines the duration of salvation and God has declared it eternal - non ending - forever. Jesus said I will lose nothing. You are right, man knows little ...... but God knows and He has declared the duration and value of salvation for believers. When we believe Jesus he gives us eteranl life - a life that can never perish or be corrupted - 1 Peter 1:23, John 3:16 etc Mark Hi Friend, I showed 4 determining factors from Gods written word, no Jesus wont lose anyone, so one must ask am i truly with Jesus and he with me? There is a strong determining factor found at 1 John 3: 9,10-- This is like a mirror to the reality of our hearts, and basically it says-- That the true children of God cannot practice sin, instead they live to practice righteousness, and on the other hand the true children of the devil, practice sin. its that simple. Thats why i guess Jesus said-- This means eternal life ( be saved ) their taking in knowledge of you the only true God and the one whom he sent forth, Jesus christ. But all the other 3 factors for being saved apply as well. And within the word righteousness this would mean that we took in true knowledge, not false knowledge. And applied it in our everyday lives, and learned to hate what God hates concerning sin and the practice of it. As in the days of Noah, God showed that being decieved does not hold any merit with him. it will not be an acceptable excuse. So then i would ask Why are babies and children being baptized and told they are saved, They cannot possibly make that decision maturely within their hearts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark777 Posted June 10, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 416 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/16/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 10, 2006 (edited) Cool! I also would question infant baptism. But on the matter of choice I still have questions concerning the mechanics of it. I believe we - God's elect - have a choice but only at the door of salvation and that God made the choice and altered us in order to comprehend it and accomplish it. Choosing Christ is like a person drowning and feeling the crushing pain in the lungs from water entering when all of the sudden the person is lifted out of the water and starts to inhale life sustaining air. It would be rare for a person to want to return to drowning. So, does the person drowning really have a choice? I don't think it is the same kind of choice as when you decide between pizza or hambugers. When God draws you, there really isn't a choice. After becoming aware of His presence who would turn away - back to death? Not me! Mark Edited June 10, 2006 by Mark777 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st. Worm Posted June 10, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,447 Content Per Day: 0.21 Reputation: 45 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/26/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted June 10, 2006 quote: "So then i would ask Why are babies and children being baptized and told they are saved, They cannot possibly make that decision maturely within their hearts." SW: Looks like a nice thread hijack in progress. If you view faith as a decision made on your part (unbiblical) rather than a gift from God (biblical) then I can see your point. However, the Bible indicates even an unborn infant (John the Baptist) had faith in his Savior. Obviously you don't have a clue about infant baptism from any of the different views so I am not sure why you are even bringing it up here. And just as an aside, you could not make that "decision maturely within your heart" without a gracious work of God before hand even if your were 80 years old. We've beaten the "freewill" thing to death here and its been proven false teaching time and time again. sw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark777 Posted June 10, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 416 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/16/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 10, 2006 Back on track: 2 Tim. 4:18, "And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark777 Posted June 10, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 416 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/16/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 10, 2006 sw: "We've beaten the "freewill" thing to death here and its been proven false teaching time and time again." Mark777: If you do not believe in free will how does that go with your belief that a true believer can decide to reject God and salvation? Wouldn't that be a free will choice? A believer has been given a new nature that doesn't want to sin so in order to turn away from Christ a believer would need to make a choice to do so? He is no longer a slave to sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjw47 Posted June 10, 2006 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 83 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/09/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 10, 2006 sw: "We've beaten the "freewill" thing to death here and its been proven false teaching time and time again." Mark777: If you do not believe in free will how does that go with your belief that a true believer can decide to reject God and salvation? Wouldn't that be a free will choice? A believer has been given a new nature that doesn't want to sin so in order to turn away from Christ a believer would need to make a choice to do so? He is no longer a slave to sin. Hi Friend, One must understand what sin is firstly, Heres an example-- while in the wilderness, satan asked Jesus to do an act of worship to him. He was asking Jesus to sin, thus sin= worship to satan,both in the heart of God and the heart of Jesus. and one must ask themselves-- Can i practice worship to God on one hand and also practice worship to satan on the other hand and be a true children of God? I say no way ever. And heres proof out of Gods sons own mouth-- Matthew 7:21-23. These will be the words spoken by Jesus to the lukewarm ones on judgement day. I promise you that you do not want to hear these words spoken to you. they are these, he will say-- Get away from me you workers of iniquities ( lawlessness = practiced sin) I must confess i never knew you. (God knows every name written in the book of life)-- Even though they did powerful works in his name. They did these works out of love for Jesus but what was the problem? Practiced sin. and at 1 john 3: 9,10 it says that a true child of God practices righteousness, the children of the devil practice sin. It is our choice in our hearts to believe Gods word on this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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