st. Worm Posted June 15, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,447 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 45 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/26/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted June 15, 2006 quote: You said the same thing I did but in a differen't way. The question I have to those who believe that is why do you bother with evangelism or missionary efforts? All who are the elect will be saved anyway and those who are not will reject the gospel. SW: 1. Because God commands it. 2. Because God uses those means to spread the gospel to those who will be saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Durnan Posted June 15, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 121 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,782 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 49 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/14/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted June 15, 2006 Someone somewhere here is as ornery as a bee-stung mule! "If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth isn't in us." Of course, IMPERFECT Christians are told by the Apostle John to DAILY "confess their sins" if they would be forgiven on a daily basis...because Christians do indeed "leak." However, as Billy Graham has said many times, "be sure to keep short accounts with God!" Zowie, haven't you read about the very Judgment Seat of Christ where we'll be talking to Jesus ABOUT OURSELVES, our missed opportunities, our crowns, etc. Tears are not listed in God's Word as being gone UNTIL AFTER this Judgment Seat! Believers in Christ Jesus have been forgiven....are being forgiven....and one day (at His glorious Coming) will be entirely free of sin's very presence. Sanctification is three-fold: past, present, future. But please, don't saddle God's glorious salvation with one's personal 24-7 "perfection". We are all SINNERS saved by His grace! Nothing more, nothing less, nothing other. Or we drop back into that horrendous Saved, Re-Lost, Saved, Re-lost, Saved-Re-lost , etc, etc, quagmire! Thank You, Lord Jesus, for Your everlasting salvation! Joh 3:16 & 5:24. AMEN! http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark777 Posted June 15, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 416 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/16/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 15, 2006 I will not be available for a while. You guys keep it up. Remember, I am right and every one else is wrong. <that was a joke Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjw47 Posted June 15, 2006 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 83 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/09/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 15, 2006 ...One must conclude that no mortal man alive can tell another that he is saved. That mortal man would have to be able to read anothers true heart. all the way till the end. impossible. So what does one think the problem was for those powerful workers for Jesus-- practiced sin. because they thought once saved always saved. ... Hi Friend, Yes you are correct they were never saved, the problem is is that they were told they were saved by their teachers. The only ones who will recieve salvation and grace are the children of God, i never said they had a license to sin, they willfully chose to sin. Jesus spoke to all who desire to serve God, and he said -- Man does not live by bread alone but by every utterance from God. In the first quoted section above, you stated that the "workers for Jesus" who weren't saved were in that deluded state because of the teaching of OSAS. This clearly implies that OSAS is to blame. But if you understand that these were never saved at all, how can you blame OSAS for it? The only people to blame would be those that preached a false gospel, one that never saved in the first place. This is NOT OSAS. OSAS never teaches a false gospel, that people are saved by anything other than faith alone in Jesus alone. However, CS does teach something false: that eternal life isn't eternal, that the promises of God aren't really promises, that salvation has to be maintained by our own power. Those people you say "willfully chose to sin" (your opinion) because they were told OSAS, and this is patently false. You can't have it both ways: that they were never saved (as you say in the second part of the quote), but that they were also once saved but then lost. Which is it? Hi Friend, Yes one can be saved and then turn to the practice of sin, or even have hatred in their heart for their brother. I have know some who thought once saved always saved, and used that as a license to sin. They willfully sinned, yet could have been in a saved state prior to their willfull sin. Once saved always saved is a false teaching. Gods word clearly shows that those who practice sin are the children of the devil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjw47 Posted June 15, 2006 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 83 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/09/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 15, 2006 I love it, I love it! Lost to start with, then gloriously saved! Re-lost, then re-saved. Then re-lost, re-saved. Re-lost, re-saved. Re-lost, re-saved on into the uncertain night! So, again, if one is saved, then re-lost, pray tell WHAT was he saved from in the FIRST instance? ANYTHING? Not from hell's fires, because he's heading there again! Hmm. I call this fanciful tale of "Gloriously saved, Re-lost, Re-Saved, Re-lost, Re-Saved, Re-lost, " by the initials GRRRRR!! If Calvary's cross couldn't save me & keep me saved forever, then, of course, Jesus will have to return to repeat Calvary! IE, Calvary No. 2! WHO makes those bizarro doctrines up? One is gloriously, then re-lost - it's nothing short of a nice graveside speech. Thank You, Lord Jesus, for Your "eternal" salvation (John 3:16)! http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com Hi Friend, At 1 John 3: 9-10 says a child of God cannot practice sin, He practices righteousness instead. But the ones who practice sin, or hate their brothers are the devils children. Like i said a couple of times allready no mortal man can tell another he is saved, because that one could go practice sin willfully after the fact and be turned into a child of satan. No child of the devil will recieve salvation or grace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjw47 Posted June 15, 2006 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 83 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/09/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 15, 2006 quote: "Repentance for sin after salvation is a matter of fellowship and rewards." SW: Do you have any Scripture or analysis of Scripture to support that? Reward implies related work. Repentance earns salvation? Hi, Actually repentence blots out sin, Salvation is a free gift because we all sin, but not all practice it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjw47 Posted June 15, 2006 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 83 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/09/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 15, 2006 Does a saved Christian need to repent of thier sin, and why? Hi Friend, There is no christian saved that has not repented first if he is a practicer of sin. At Hebrews 10:26-- God told us through Paul that there is no sacrafise ( Jesus sacrafice ) for those who practice sin. That is what God says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjw47 Posted June 15, 2006 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 83 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/09/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 15, 2006 Hi Friend, Yes one can be saved and then turn to the practice of sin, or even have hatred in their heart for their brother. I have know some who thought once saved always saved, and used that as a license to sin. They willfully sinned, yet could have been in a saved state prior to their willfull sin. Once saved always saved is a false teaching. Gods word clearly shows that those who practice sin are the children of the devil. I'll tie up this one loose end. You did not answer my question. Were the people in that passage never saved (as you stated) or once saved and then lost (as you also stated). These two things are contradictory; both cannot be true. Either they were never saved or they were once saved and then lost. Which is it? "one can be saved and then turn to the practice of sin" Nobody denies this. "I have know some who..." Anectodal evidence. I could as easily say that I know people who reject OSAS (like Roman Catholicism) yet sin like the devil because they can just confess it. OSAS is not the problem, since both extremes practice sin and ask repentance. "Once saved always saved is a false teaching" That is the issue being debated. Debates are not won by simply asserting a premise, over and over. "Gods word clearly shows that those who practice sin are the children of the devil." Again, nobody denies this. And both CS and OSAS believers practice sin and ask forgiveness, day after day. Hi Friend, But at i John 3: 9-10 it clearly says that a true child of God cannot practice sin, instead these practice righteousness. Repentence is the stopping of doing the sin, not doing the sin and saying i am sorry and keeping that process going. As i showed, God said through his writer Paul at Hebrews 10:26-- That there is no sacrafice ( Jesus sacrafice ) for those who practice sin. God told all of us this. And if one loves Jesus one listens to his voice at Matthew 7: 21-23. He will confess he never knew the workers of iniquities ( lawlessness ) And that is practicers of sin. So as i stated not one mortal man can tell another he is truly saved because he cannot read the true heart, nor know if that one will become a practicer of sin or still is a practicer of sin. Also at 1 Corinthians. this is a list of some sins and says -- those that do these sins will not enter into Gods kingdom, and goes on to say that this is what some of you were ( past tense )-- repentence is not doing sin and saying i am sorry over and over again. Right there with that past tense clearly shows that repentence is the stopping of doing the sin. This is what God says through his writers. So again i beseech all-- MAKE SURE OF ALL THINGS. ETERNAL LIFE MAY DEPEND ON ALL OF US DOING JUST THAT. We do not want to hear these words from Jesus to us on judgement day( matt 7: 21-23) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark777 Posted June 15, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 416 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/16/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 15, 2006 (edited) I disagree,Butero. I find it an important discussion and believe it should go on. If the present participants are tired - take a break. I am having to take a break because of buisness but I will be back and there is a lot to cover. Just reading what has been posted has me chomping at the bit................. Mark Edited June 15, 2006 by Mark777 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjw47 Posted June 15, 2006 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 83 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/09/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 15, 2006 I do agree with you 2ThePoint that it is easy to throw out statements like, "Your position is false," with no scriptural evidence and it adds nothing to the debate. Hey, a point of agreement! But really, nearly 80 pages and no end in sight looks like something to walk away from. Hi Friend, alls it takes is listening to Gods word over men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts