State of emergency declared in baltimore

[Burning_Ember]

Those people living in poverty have only themselves to blame.  They have the same opportunities that the rest of us have.  There are many stories about blacks who were born in poverty but pulled themselves up, took pride in themselves and became doctors, lawyers, business owners, etc.

 

So don't try spew the silly liberal line about poverty being the cause of all of this....   It's just nonsense.

 

 

 

Those people living in poverty have only themselves to blame.  They have the same opportunities that the rest of us have.  There are many stories about blacks who were born in poverty but pulled themselves up, took pride in themselves and became doctors, lawyers, business owners, etc.

 

So don't try spew the silly liberal line about poverty being the cause of all of this....   It's just nonsense.

 

 

My husband was born and raised in poverty. He recalls getting govt commodities as a kid. Getting clothes given to him from various charities. He lived in the 19th poorest county in the nation. In an area with an unemployment rate that never dipped below 50%. 

 

His parents instilled a work ethic in him and his 4 brothers and sisters. Every one of them was told to work even if it was just flipping hamburgers. He and his siblings all went to college, all got degrees, all got good jobs. Pharmacist, business administration, physicians assistant, urban planner etc. All good jobs. They all worked hard and got out of that life of poverty. It can be done without resorting to riots etc. They can get out of that life.

 

That is not what happens to everybody.

 

Those are the problems. The question is how to do more to solve them.

 

Baltimore is merely a continuation of Ferguson, and this will be going in one form or another all summer.

 

In addition, I might ask what your thoughts are on the rest of my post? The parts about police brutality?

[Qnts2]

The number of people peacefully protesting far outweigh the much smaller number of people who engaged in violence.

 

I don't support violence like what happened in any way... I do however, have to try understand how bad things would have to be for things to get that bad.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/dandiamond/2015/04/28/why-baltimore-burned/

 

Forbes took a look at some numbers, and the zip code where the the riots broke out have a third of the population below the poverty line and and food stamps. In Baltimore less than 60% of high school students graduate, infant mortality on par with Belize and Moldova, and broken families.

 

Notice how riots only break out in neighbourhoods where there are high rates of education, higher median income, low rates of poverty and unemployment, etc, only break out when someone wins or loses a sports game, or there is a pumpkin festival.

 

I mean, one person who is fed, clothed, had a good job, a good education, good parents, a good house, and so forth, that person probably isn't going to go burn stuff down or smash stuff.

 

If someone has a poor education, no job, is in terrible poverty, has a broken family, has any previous criminal activity on their record, has experienced or knows someone else who has experienced police brutality, I have no doubt they are much more likely to march in the streets.

 

Baltimore has lost or settled over 100 cases of police brutality since 2011. But those are only the ones that have been brought to court in one way or another. Such statistics, or such a consistent use of force would be absolutely unconscionable where I live.

 

http://www.vox.com/2015/4/28/8508125/baltimore-police-brutality

 

Perhaps if we want to look at how to stop the symptoms, we need to look at the disease.

 

I think you are looking at it entirely wrong. Poverty does not cause people to riot. If the poverty is extreme, so that people are starving, then it might cause some to break the law to get food, but in a country with food stamps, wic, food shelves, school breakfast and lunch programs, etc etc etc, no one is at risk of dieing from starvation.

 

Ferguson is a middle class to lower middle class town. It was actually a very nice town.

 

Ferguson statistics compared to over all Missouri, and the U.S.

 

                                                                    Ferguson   Missouri     U.S.

National Income per capita                         $20,617      $25,546    $28,051

Median household income                          $37,517      $47,333   $53,046

Median household income owner occupied $56,343     $59,287   $67,062

Median household income renter occupied $22,178      $27,123   $32,212

Median earnings male                                  $27,831     $32,824    $35,771

Median earnings female                               $22,604      $23,260   $25,299

Unemployment rate                                          9.5%           5.5%       6.0%

Poverty level                                                   22.0%          15.0%    14.9%

 

 

There are certain leaders in the black community, left over in mindset to the race protests back in the 1960's. These guys raise money and need to be visible and doing something to promote themselves so they look for supposed causes to fight supposed injustices. These guys need to be visible enough to make the national news. So, they look for reasons to have protests, and they organize protests in a manner which would make them visible and newsworthy.  

 

From there, you look at gang behavior. Why does a large crowd gain followers.

 

Here is a list of issues which cause youth to join gangs.

 

http://www.gangfree.org/gangs_why.html

 

A Sense of "Family" - Young people might feel that they don't receive enough support or attention at home. They may be trying to escape a negative home life, or may be looking for a father figure. Gangs often make promises to give unconditional support, and to become the "family" they never had.

Need for food or money - Gangs may present themselves as a means of survival to youth who lack basic essentials such as food, clothing and shelter. More and more, gang members use their affiliation to make a profit through illegal activities, such as selling drugs and auto theft.

Desire for protection - Communities with high gang activity often see young people join a gang just to survive. It is often easier to join the gang than to remain vulnerable and unprotected in their neighborhoods.

Peer Pressure - Kids and teens face constant pressure to fit in, and they may not have the support they need to avoid the pressures to join a gang. Peer pressure can come in the form of intimidation, coercion, a dare, harassment, friendly persuasion, or repetitious begging.

Family history or tradition - Families can have gang involvement spanning over multiple generations. This is one of the toughest forms of pressure to escape, as the gang lifestyle is deeply rooted in family traditions and values.

Excitement - Some young people get a rush out of defying authority, or committing crimes. They may be attracted to the gang lifestyle, as it lives outside the law and participates in many illicit behaviors.

To Appear Cool - Gangs have mastered the art of manipulation to attract potential recruits. They wear the latest fashion trends, throw the hottest parties, and drive the coolest cars. They can appear to have the 'perfect' lifestyle to a young kid who's looking to fit in somewhere. The offer an image of "cool" that has been glorified by the media and entertainment industry.

 

 

So, peel this all down to the most fundamental issue. It is family issues. Broken families, or  immature parents unable to give the kids what they need. The rest grows from there.  

 

So how do we help make solid families?  Wow. That list may not be popular. It is a conservative agenda which focuses on solid family structure.

[Guest shiloh357]

Police mainly use force when people resist arrest.   That's the other side of police brutality most of the time.   

 

There are a few bad apples even among the police, but the notion that blacks are targeted by police and are beaten for no reason simply isn't true. 

[Burning_Ember]

 

The number of people peacefully protesting far outweigh the much smaller number of people who engaged in violence.

 

I don't support violence like what happened in any way... I do however, have to try understand how bad things would have to be for things to get that bad.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/dandiamond/2015/04/28/why-baltimore-burned/

 

Forbes took a look at some numbers, and the zip code where the the riots broke out have a third of the population below the poverty line and and food stamps. In Baltimore less than 60% of high school students graduate, infant mortality on par with Belize and Moldova, and broken families.

 

Notice how riots only break out in neighbourhoods where there are high rates of education, higher median income, low rates of poverty and unemployment, etc, only break out when someone wins or loses a sports game, or there is a pumpkin festival.

 

I mean, one person who is fed, clothed, had a good job, a good education, good parents, a good house, and so forth, that person probably isn't going to go burn stuff down or smash stuff.

 

If someone has a poor education, no job, is in terrible poverty, has a broken family, has any previous criminal activity on their record, has experienced or knows someone else who has experienced police brutality, I have no doubt they are much more likely to march in the streets.

 

Baltimore has lost or settled over 100 cases of police brutality since 2011. But those are only the ones that have been brought to court in one way or another. Such statistics, or such a consistent use of force would be absolutely unconscionable where I live.

 

http://www.vox.com/2015/4/28/8508125/baltimore-police-brutality

 

Perhaps if we want to look at how to stop the symptoms, we need to look at the disease.

 

I think you are looking at it entirely wrong. Poverty does not cause people to riot. If the poverty is extreme, so that people are starving, then it might cause some to break the law to get food, but in a country with food stamps, wic, food shelves, school breakfast and lunch programs, etc etc etc, no one is at risk of dieing from starvation.

 

Ferguson is a middle class to lower middle class town. It was actually a very nice town.

 

Ferguson statistics compared to over all Missouri, and the U.S.

 

                                                                    Ferguson   Missouri     U.S.

National Income per capita                         $20,617      $25,546    $28,051

Median household income                          $37,517      $47,333   $53,046

Median household income owner occupied $56,343     $59,287   $67,062

Median household income renter occupied $22,178      $27,123   $32,212

Median earnings male                                  $27,831     $32,824    $35,771

Median earnings female                               $22,604      $23,260   $25,299

Unemployment rate                                          9.5%           5.5%       6.0%

Poverty level                                                   22.0%          15.0%    14.9%

 

 

There are certain leaders in the black community, left over in mindset to the race protests back in the 1960's. These guys raise money and need to be visible and doing something to promote themselves so they look for supposed causes to fight supposed injustices. These guys need to be visible enough to make the national news. So, they look for reasons to have protests, and they organize protests in a manner which would make them visible and newsworthy.  

 

From there, you look at gang behavior. Why does a large crowd gain followers.

 

Here is a list of issues which cause youth to join gangs.

 

http://www.gangfree.org/gangs_why.html

 

A Sense of "Family" - Young people might feel that they don't receive enough support or attention at home. They may be trying to escape a negative home life, or may be looking for a father figure. Gangs often make promises to give unconditional support, and to become the "family" they never had.

Need for food or money - Gangs may present themselves as a means of survival to youth who lack basic essentials such as food, clothing and shelter. More and more, gang members use their affiliation to make a profit through illegal activities, such as selling drugs and auto theft.

Desire for protection - Communities with high gang activity often see young people join a gang just to survive. It is often easier to join the gang than to remain vulnerable and unprotected in their neighborhoods.

Peer Pressure - Kids and teens face constant pressure to fit in, and they may not have the support they need to avoid the pressures to join a gang. Peer pressure can come in the form of intimidation, coercion, a dare, harassment, friendly persuasion, or repetitious begging.

Family history or tradition - Families can have gang involvement spanning over multiple generations. This is one of the toughest forms of pressure to escape, as the gang lifestyle is deeply rooted in family traditions and values.

Excitement - Some young people get a rush out of defying authority, or committing crimes. They may be attracted to the gang lifestyle, as it lives outside the law and participates in many illicit behaviors.

To Appear Cool - Gangs have mastered the art of manipulation to attract potential recruits. They wear the latest fashion trends, throw the hottest parties, and drive the coolest cars. They can appear to have the 'perfect' lifestyle to a young kid who's looking to fit in somewhere. The offer an image of "cool" that has been glorified by the media and entertainment industry.

 

 

So, peel this all down to the most fundamental issue. It is family issues. Broken families, or  immature parents unable to give the kids what they need. The rest grows from there.  

 

So how do we help make solid families?  Wow. That list may not be popular. It is a conservative agenda which focuses on solid family structure.

 

The riots in Baltimore were not because of broken families. Riots arise out of a feeling of necessity. In this case, that killing someone who you are supposed to be arresting.

 

Riots occur out of a "necessity" of one form or another, whether that is violence that injures or kills someone (Ferguson, Baltimore) or a sports game being lost, which didn't just happen that one time in Canada, but happens consistently across the US.

 

Police mainly use force when people resist arrest.   That's the other side of police brutality most of the time.   

 

There are a few bad apples even among the police, but the notion that blacks are targeted by police and are beaten for no reason simply isn't true. 

Strawman argument. Since when did I said that black people get targeted and beaten by the police for no reason? I didn't.

 

The legal punishment for resisting arrest is not death. I don't see how if someone resists arrest, that if the police accidentally kill them, it should somehow be acceptable, that is a violation of their right to due process.

[*Zion*]

The words of David Wilkerson in 1973 come to mind right now... God is always right and on time.  We are the ones getting it wrong.

[Qnts2]

 

 

The number of people peacefully protesting far outweigh the much smaller number of people who engaged in violence.

 

I don't support violence like what happened in any way... I do however, have to try understand how bad things would have to be for things to get that bad.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/dandiamond/2015/04/28/why-baltimore-burned/

 

Forbes took a look at some numbers, and the zip code where the the riots broke out have a third of the population below the poverty line and and food stamps. In Baltimore less than 60% of high school students graduate, infant mortality on par with Belize and Moldova, and broken families.

 

Notice how riots only break out in neighbourhoods where there are high rates of education, higher median income, low rates of poverty and unemployment, etc, only break out when someone wins or loses a sports game, or there is a pumpkin festival.

 

I mean, one person who is fed, clothed, had a good job, a good education, good parents, a good house, and so forth, that person probably isn't going to go burn stuff down or smash stuff.

 

If someone has a poor education, no job, is in terrible poverty, has a broken family, has any previous criminal activity on their record, has experienced or knows someone else who has experienced police brutality, I have no doubt they are much more likely to march in the streets.

 

Baltimore has lost or settled over 100 cases of police brutality since 2011. But those are only the ones that have been brought to court in one way or another. Such statistics, or such a consistent use of force would be absolutely unconscionable where I live.

 

http://www.vox.com/2015/4/28/8508125/baltimore-police-brutality

 

Perhaps if we want to look at how to stop the symptoms, we need to look at the disease.

 

I think you are looking at it entirely wrong. Poverty does not cause people to riot. If the poverty is extreme, so that people are starving, then it might cause some to break the law to get food, but in a country with food stamps, wic, food shelves, school breakfast and lunch programs, etc etc etc, no one is at risk of dieing from starvation.

 

Ferguson is a middle class to lower middle class town. It was actually a very nice town.

 

Ferguson statistics compared to over all Missouri, and the U.S.

 

                                                                    Ferguson   Missouri     U.S.

National Income per capita                         $20,617      $25,546    $28,051

Median household income                          $37,517      $47,333   $53,046

Median household income owner occupied $56,343     $59,287   $67,062

Median household income renter occupied $22,178      $27,123   $32,212

Median earnings male                                  $27,831     $32,824    $35,771

Median earnings female                               $22,604      $23,260   $25,299

Unemployment rate                                          9.5%           5.5%       6.0%

Poverty level                                                   22.0%          15.0%    14.9%

 

 

There are certain leaders in the black community, left over in mindset to the race protests back in the 1960's. These guys raise money and need to be visible and doing something to promote themselves so they look for supposed causes to fight supposed injustices. These guys need to be visible enough to make the national news. So, they look for reasons to have protests, and they organize protests in a manner which would make them visible and newsworthy.  

 

From there, you look at gang behavior. Why does a large crowd gain followers.

 

Here is a list of issues which cause youth to join gangs.

 

http://www.gangfree.org/gangs_why.html

 

A Sense of "Family" - Young people might feel that they don't receive enough support or attention at home. They may be trying to escape a negative home life, or may be looking for a father figure. Gangs often make promises to give unconditional support, and to become the "family" they never had.

Need for food or money - Gangs may present themselves as a means of survival to youth who lack basic essentials such as food, clothing and shelter. More and more, gang members use their affiliation to make a profit through illegal activities, such as selling drugs and auto theft.

Desire for protection - Communities with high gang activity often see young people join a gang just to survive. It is often easier to join the gang than to remain vulnerable and unprotected in their neighborhoods.

Peer Pressure - Kids and teens face constant pressure to fit in, and they may not have the support they need to avoid the pressures to join a gang. Peer pressure can come in the form of intimidation, coercion, a dare, harassment, friendly persuasion, or repetitious begging.

Family history or tradition - Families can have gang involvement spanning over multiple generations. This is one of the toughest forms of pressure to escape, as the gang lifestyle is deeply rooted in family traditions and values.

Excitement - Some young people get a rush out of defying authority, or committing crimes. They may be attracted to the gang lifestyle, as it lives outside the law and participates in many illicit behaviors.

To Appear Cool - Gangs have mastered the art of manipulation to attract potential recruits. They wear the latest fashion trends, throw the hottest parties, and drive the coolest cars. They can appear to have the 'perfect' lifestyle to a young kid who's looking to fit in somewhere. The offer an image of "cool" that has been glorified by the media and entertainment industry.

 

 

So, peel this all down to the most fundamental issue. It is family issues. Broken families, or  immature parents unable to give the kids what they need. The rest grows from there.  

 

So how do we help make solid families?  Wow. That list may not be popular. It is a conservative agenda which focuses on solid family structure.

 

The riots in Baltimore were not because of broken families. Riots arise out of a feeling of necessity. In this case, that killing someone who you are supposed to be arresting.

 

Riots occur out of a "necessity" of one form or another, whether that is violence that injures or kills someone (Ferguson, Baltimore) or a sports game being lost, which didn't just happen that one time in Canada, but happens consistently across the US.

 

 

 

That is the point. There was no 'necessity' for a riot. Since there was no necessity, there should not have been any feeling of necessity. Those who wanted a visible protest worked to convince others that it was needed. So, why did the others so readily become convinced? Peer pressure. And from there, you fall into the issue of lacking solid, supportive family units which predisposed people to join in. It is not all the gobbledygook about poverty. It is about safe secure upbringing in a loving two parent family who teaches and mentors the children or the lack thereof which predisposes a person to gang like influences and consequential actions.

[Burning_Ember]

 

 

 

The number of people peacefully protesting far outweigh the much smaller number of people who engaged in violence.

 

I don't support violence like what happened in any way... I do however, have to try understand how bad things would have to be for things to get that bad.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/dandiamond/2015/04/28/why-baltimore-burned/

 

Forbes took a look at some numbers, and the zip code where the the riots broke out have a third of the population below the poverty line and and food stamps. In Baltimore less than 60% of high school students graduate, infant mortality on par with Belize and Moldova, and broken families.

 

Notice how riots only break out in neighbourhoods where there are high rates of education, higher median income, low rates of poverty and unemployment, etc, only break out when someone wins or loses a sports game, or there is a pumpkin festival.

 

I mean, one person who is fed, clothed, had a good job, a good education, good parents, a good house, and so forth, that person probably isn't going to go burn stuff down or smash stuff.

 

If someone has a poor education, no job, is in terrible poverty, has a broken family, has any previous criminal activity on their record, has experienced or knows someone else who has experienced police brutality, I have no doubt they are much more likely to march in the streets.

 

Baltimore has lost or settled over 100 cases of police brutality since 2011. But those are only the ones that have been brought to court in one way or another. Such statistics, or such a consistent use of force would be absolutely unconscionable where I live.

 

http://www.vox.com/2015/4/28/8508125/baltimore-police-brutality

 

Perhaps if we want to look at how to stop the symptoms, we need to look at the disease.

 

I think you are looking at it entirely wrong. Poverty does not cause people to riot. If the poverty is extreme, so that people are starving, then it might cause some to break the law to get food, but in a country with food stamps, wic, food shelves, school breakfast and lunch programs, etc etc etc, no one is at risk of dieing from starvation.

 

Ferguson is a middle class to lower middle class town. It was actually a very nice town.

 

Ferguson statistics compared to over all Missouri, and the U.S.

 

                                                                    Ferguson   Missouri     U.S.

National Income per capita                         $20,617      $25,546    $28,051

Median household income                          $37,517      $47,333   $53,046

Median household income owner occupied $56,343     $59,287   $67,062

Median household income renter occupied $22,178      $27,123   $32,212

Median earnings male                                  $27,831     $32,824    $35,771

Median earnings female                               $22,604      $23,260   $25,299

Unemployment rate                                          9.5%           5.5%       6.0%

Poverty level                                                   22.0%          15.0%    14.9%

 

 

There are certain leaders in the black community, left over in mindset to the race protests back in the 1960's. These guys raise money and need to be visible and doing something to promote themselves so they look for supposed causes to fight supposed injustices. These guys need to be visible enough to make the national news. So, they look for reasons to have protests, and they organize protests in a manner which would make them visible and newsworthy.  

 

From there, you look at gang behavior. Why does a large crowd gain followers.

 

Here is a list of issues which cause youth to join gangs.

 

http://www.gangfree.org/gangs_why.html

 

A Sense of "Family" - Young people might feel that they don't receive enough support or attention at home. They may be trying to escape a negative home life, or may be looking for a father figure. Gangs often make promises to give unconditional support, and to become the "family" they never had.

Need for food or money - Gangs may present themselves as a means of survival to youth who lack basic essentials such as food, clothing and shelter. More and more, gang members use their affiliation to make a profit through illegal activities, such as selling drugs and auto theft.

Desire for protection - Communities with high gang activity often see young people join a gang just to survive. It is often easier to join the gang than to remain vulnerable and unprotected in their neighborhoods.

Peer Pressure - Kids and teens face constant pressure to fit in, and they may not have the support they need to avoid the pressures to join a gang. Peer pressure can come in the form of intimidation, coercion, a dare, harassment, friendly persuasion, or repetitious begging.

Family history or tradition - Families can have gang involvement spanning over multiple generations. This is one of the toughest forms of pressure to escape, as the gang lifestyle is deeply rooted in family traditions and values.

Excitement - Some young people get a rush out of defying authority, or committing crimes. They may be attracted to the gang lifestyle, as it lives outside the law and participates in many illicit behaviors.

To Appear Cool - Gangs have mastered the art of manipulation to attract potential recruits. They wear the latest fashion trends, throw the hottest parties, and drive the coolest cars. They can appear to have the 'perfect' lifestyle to a young kid who's looking to fit in somewhere. The offer an image of "cool" that has been glorified by the media and entertainment industry.

 

 

So, peel this all down to the most fundamental issue. It is family issues. Broken families, or  immature parents unable to give the kids what they need. The rest grows from there.  

 

So how do we help make solid families?  Wow. That list may not be popular. It is a conservative agenda which focuses on solid family structure.

 

The riots in Baltimore were not because of broken families. Riots arise out of a feeling of necessity. In this case, that killing someone who you are supposed to be arresting.

 

Riots occur out of a "necessity" of one form or another, whether that is violence that injures or kills someone (Ferguson, Baltimore) or a sports game being lost, which didn't just happen that one time in Canada, but happens consistently across the US.

 

 

 

That is the point. There was no 'necessity' for a riot. Since there was no necessity, there should not have been any feeling of necessity. Those who wanted a visible protest worked to convince others that it was needed. So, why did the others so readily become convinced? Peer pressure. And from there, you fall into the issue of lacking solid, supportive family units which predisposed people to join in. It is not all the gobbledygook about poverty. It is about safe secure upbringing in a loving two parent family who teaches and mentors the children or the lack thereof which predisposes a person to gang like influences and consequential actions.

 

These were protests turned violent, not gangs.

[Qnts2]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think you are looking at it entirely wrong. Poverty does not cause people to riot. If the poverty is extreme, so that people are starving, then it might cause some to break the law to get food, but in a country with food stamps, wic, food shelves, school breakfast and lunch programs, etc etc etc, no one is at risk of dieing from starvation.

 

Ferguson is a middle class to lower middle class town. It was actually a very nice town.

 

Ferguson statistics compared to over all Missouri, and the U.S.

 

                                                                    Ferguson   Missouri     U.S.

National Income per capita                         $20,617      $25,546    $28,051

Median household income                          $37,517      $47,333   $53,046

Median household income owner occupied $56,343     $59,287   $67,062

Median household income renter occupied $22,178      $27,123   $32,212

Median earnings male                                  $27,831     $32,824    $35,771

Median earnings female                               $22,604      $23,260   $25,299

Unemployment rate                                          9.5%           5.5%       6.0%

Poverty level                                                   22.0%          15.0%    14.9%

 

 

There are certain leaders in the black community, left over in mindset to the race protests back in the 1960's. These guys raise money and need to be visible and doing something to promote themselves so they look for supposed causes to fight supposed injustices. These guys need to be visible enough to make the national news. So, they look for reasons to have protests, and they organize protests in a manner which would make them visible and newsworthy.  

 

From there, you look at gang behavior. Why does a large crowd gain followers.

 

Here is a list of issues which cause youth to join gangs.

 

http://www.gangfree.org/gangs_why.html

 

A Sense of "Family" - Young people might feel that they don't receive enough support or attention at home. They may be trying to escape a negative home life, or may be looking for a father figure. Gangs often make promises to give unconditional support, and to become the "family" they never had.

Need for food or money - Gangs may present themselves as a means of survival to youth who lack basic essentials such as food, clothing and shelter. More and more, gang members use their affiliation to make a profit through illegal activities, such as selling drugs and auto theft.

Desire for protection - Communities with high gang activity often see young people join a gang just to survive. It is often easier to join the gang than to remain vulnerable and unprotected in their neighborhoods.

Peer Pressure - Kids and teens face constant pressure to fit in, and they may not have the support they need to avoid the pressures to join a gang. Peer pressure can come in the form of intimidation, coercion, a dare, harassment, friendly persuasion, or repetitious begging.

Family history or tradition - Families can have gang involvement spanning over multiple generations. This is one of the toughest forms of pressure to escape, as the gang lifestyle is deeply rooted in family traditions and values.

Excitement - Some young people get a rush out of defying authority, or committing crimes. They may be attracted to the gang lifestyle, as it lives outside the law and participates in many illicit behaviors.

To Appear Cool - Gangs have mastered the art of manipulation to attract potential recruits. They wear the latest fashion trends, throw the hottest parties, and drive the coolest cars. They can appear to have the 'perfect' lifestyle to a young kid who's looking to fit in somewhere. The offer an image of "cool" that has been glorified by the media and entertainment industry.

 

 

So, peel this all down to the most fundamental issue. It is family issues. Broken families, or  immature parents unable to give the kids what they need. The rest grows from there.  

 

So how do we help make solid families?  Wow. That list may not be popular. It is a conservative agenda which focuses on solid family structure.

 

The riots in Baltimore were not because of broken families. Riots arise out of a feeling of necessity. In this case, that killing someone who you are supposed to be arresting.

 

Riots occur out of a "necessity" of one form or another, whether that is violence that injures or kills someone (Ferguson, Baltimore) or a sports game being lost, which didn't just happen that one time in Canada, but happens consistently across the US.

 

 

 

That is the point. There was no 'necessity' for a riot. Since there was no necessity, there should not have been any feeling of necessity. Those who wanted a visible protest worked to convince others that it was needed. So, why did the others so readily become convinced? Peer pressure. And from there, you fall into the issue of lacking solid, supportive family units which predisposed people to join in. It is not all the gobbledygook about poverty. It is about safe secure upbringing in a loving two parent family who teaches and mentors the children or the lack thereof which predisposes a person to gang like influences and consequential actions.

 

These were protests turned violent, not gangs.

 

 

They were acting like gangs. What causes people to be prone to actions like that? It is the same issue as those prone to enter into gangs.

People normally do not act like that.

 

Where I live, a man with psychological problems called the police saying that he is out of control. When the police showed up, the man was threatening. He had not committed any crimes. The sister came out and asked the police to back off as the man was prone to respond. Instead the police tazored the man, and he died. People were upset that an innocent man with problems was killed but there were no protests. No violence. The people wrote massive letters to the state government. It was investigated and found the state procedures assumed that tazors were harmless. They aren't. The laws were changed. 

 

In the situation of the tazer death, the people involved were poor and the man was disabled. The man had not broken any laws, so was not being arrested. People were upset and viewed the man as unjustly killed by the police which in the public view, used unnecessary force. The force used was within the guidelines of law enforcement, so the police officer was not charged but clearly the man should not have ended up dead. This did make the news for an extended period of time.   

 

That was a bad situation gone very very bad, but it was handled in the best way it could have been. The issue is hopefully solved and the public is very aware. So, why didn't that turn that turn into protests and violence? Something is fundamentally wrong. It isn't economics (poverty). Why does one population react in a way which gets results in a better way, while another organizes protests which turn violent.   One difference was the lack vs the involvement of professional community organizers. Do we blame the organizers? Partly yes. But, why could the organizers cause the people to react in a manner which was not proportional and actually working against them. (Destruction of property which would actually hurt the community).

 

Because of the gang like response, the families who should have been allowed to mourn, were making public announcements pleading with the 'protesters' to not engage in violence or destruction of property in their deceased loved ones name. This need was repeated in Ferguson, NYC, etc.      

[Guest shiloh357]

Charles Barkley was right when he said earlier during the Ferguson riots that there is a self-destructive culture in the black community.  He stated correctly that there is mentality that is fed to blacks that  they are oppressed and that they being kept down and any black people who do manage to leave that cultural mindset, get an education and become prosperous are viewed as traitors to the black community.

 

They live in this world where most of their injuries are self-inflicted.    They don't see how their actions precipitate the problems they encounter with law enforcement.

 

 

You are wrong, BE.  I didn't offer up a strawman argument.   I never said that the acceptable consequence of resisting arrest is death.  THAT is the strawman you are using on ME.    My point is to the general behavior of the black community toward law enforcement.    When you resist arrest, bad things happen.   The problem is that  the blacks want to talk about "police brutality"  without talking about the way they respond to police when an officer confronts them about breaking the law.

 

What I see is that you are trying to discuss police brutality but from an entirely one-sided point of view.   Police brutality, properly understood is, for example, when a policeman stops you for speeding, drags you out of the car, cuffs you and starts cussing you out.   If policeman decides to beat a suspect who has complied and is in cuffs and purposely abuses him, then we have a case of police brutality.

 

When a suspect has clearly broken the law and the officer attempts to place him under arrest and the suspect starts throwing punches or tries to grab the officer's gun and or something and the officer responds with force, even having to cause pain and minor injuries in order to subdue the suspect and restore  order, that is not police brutality, but many in the black community want to portray that as brutality.

 

In the case of Freddie Gray,  they admit that they should have gotten him medical treatment, in hindsight.   They didn't know he was as bad as he was.  The autopsy reports are not yet out and there is still an investigation going on  and not all of the evidence is in yet.

 

So you are not really helping anything by rushing to judgment.   You rushed to judgment in the Ferguson case and you are doing the same thing here.   You want this to be about race, just like you did in the Ferguson case. 

[Burning_Ember]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think you are looking at it entirely wrong. Poverty does not cause people to riot. If the poverty is extreme, so that people are starving, then it might cause some to break the law to get food, but in a country with food stamps, wic, food shelves, school breakfast and lunch programs, etc etc etc, no one is at risk of dieing from starvation.

 

Ferguson is a middle class to lower middle class town. It was actually a very nice town.

 

Ferguson statistics compared to over all Missouri, and the U.S.

 

                                                                    Ferguson   Missouri     U.S.

National Income per capita                         $20,617      $25,546    $28,051

Median household income                          $37,517      $47,333   $53,046

Median household income owner occupied $56,343     $59,287   $67,062

Median household income renter occupied $22,178      $27,123   $32,212

Median earnings male                                  $27,831     $32,824    $35,771

Median earnings female                               $22,604      $23,260   $25,299

Unemployment rate                                          9.5%           5.5%       6.0%

Poverty level                                                   22.0%          15.0%    14.9%

 

 

There are certain leaders in the black community, left over in mindset to the race protests back in the 1960's. These guys raise money and need to be visible and doing something to promote themselves so they look for supposed causes to fight supposed injustices. These guys need to be visible enough to make the national news. So, they look for reasons to have protests, and they organize protests in a manner which would make them visible and newsworthy.  

 

From there, you look at gang behavior. Why does a large crowd gain followers.

 

Here is a list of issues which cause youth to join gangs.

 

http://www.gangfree.org/gangs_why.html

 

A Sense of "Family" - Young people might feel that they don't receive enough support or attention at home. They may be trying to escape a negative home life, or may be looking for a father figure. Gangs often make promises to give unconditional support, and to become the "family" they never had.

Need for food or money - Gangs may present themselves as a means of survival to youth who lack basic essentials such as food, clothing and shelter. More and more, gang members use their affiliation to make a profit through illegal activities, such as selling drugs and auto theft.

Desire for protection - Communities with high gang activity often see young people join a gang just to survive. It is often easier to join the gang than to remain vulnerable and unprotected in their neighborhoods.

Peer Pressure - Kids and teens face constant pressure to fit in, and they may not have the support they need to avoid the pressures to join a gang. Peer pressure can come in the form of intimidation, coercion, a dare, harassment, friendly persuasion, or repetitious begging.

Family history or tradition - Families can have gang involvement spanning over multiple generations. This is one of the toughest forms of pressure to escape, as the gang lifestyle is deeply rooted in family traditions and values.

Excitement - Some young people get a rush out of defying authority, or committing crimes. They may be attracted to the gang lifestyle, as it lives outside the law and participates in many illicit behaviors.

To Appear Cool - Gangs have mastered the art of manipulation to attract potential recruits. They wear the latest fashion trends, throw the hottest parties, and drive the coolest cars. They can appear to have the 'perfect' lifestyle to a young kid who's looking to fit in somewhere. The offer an image of "cool" that has been glorified by the media and entertainment industry.

 

 

So, peel this all down to the most fundamental issue. It is family issues. Broken families, or  immature parents unable to give the kids what they need. The rest grows from there.  

 

So how do we help make solid families?  Wow. That list may not be popular. It is a conservative agenda which focuses on solid family structure.

 

The riots in Baltimore were not because of broken families. Riots arise out of a feeling of necessity. In this case, that killing someone who you are supposed to be arresting.

 

Riots occur out of a "necessity" of one form or another, whether that is violence that injures or kills someone (Ferguson, Baltimore) or a sports game being lost, which didn't just happen that one time in Canada, but happens consistently across the US.

 

 

 

That is the point. There was no 'necessity' for a riot. Since there was no necessity, there should not have been any feeling of necessity. Those who wanted a visible protest worked to convince others that it was needed. So, why did the others so readily become convinced? Peer pressure. And from there, you fall into the issue of lacking solid, supportive family units which predisposed people to join in. It is not all the gobbledygook about poverty. It is about safe secure upbringing in a loving two parent family who teaches and mentors the children or the lack thereof which predisposes a person to gang like influences and consequential actions.

 

These were protests turned violent, not gangs.

 

 

They were acting like gangs. What causes people to be prone to actions like that? It is the same issue as those prone to enter into gangs.

People normally do not act like that.

 

Where I live, a man with psychological problems called the police saying that he is out of control. When the police showed up, the man was threatening and violent. He had not committed any crimes. The sister came out and asked the police to back off as the man was prone to respond. Instead the police tazored the man, and he died. People were upset that an innocent man with problems was killed but there were no protests. No violence. The people wrote massive letters to the state government. It was investigated and found the state procedures assumed that tazors were harmless. They aren't. The laws were changed. 

 

That was a bad situation gone very very bad, but it was handled in the best way it could have been. The issue is hopefully solved and the public is very aware. So, why didn't that turn that turn into protests and violence? Something is fundamentally wrong.

 

It really, really wasn't. You are talking about gangs. Not crowds. Those are two entirely different things.

 

Vancouver, during the hockey riot, actually had a similar level of destruction despite that being an area which had a very opposite set of statistics that we have talked about from baltimore. This is actually, in the field of psychology, called "crowd (group) psychology."

 

If your theory was correct, the Vancouver Hockey riot would NEVER have happened.

 

http://www.academia.edu/931498/Crowd_psychology

 

A crowd of people acts very very very different than an individual person would.

 

Charles Barkley was right when he said earlier during the Ferguson riots that there is a self-destructive culture in the black community.  He stated correctly that there is mentality that is fed to blacks that  they are oppressed and that they being kept down and any black people who do manage to leave that cultural mindset, get an education and become prosperous are viewed as traitors to the black community.

 

They live in this world where most of their injuries are self-inflicted.    They don't see how their actions precipitate the problems they encounter with law enforcement.

 

 

You are wrong, BE.  I didn't offer up a strawman argument.   I never said that the acceptable consequence of resisting arrest is death.  THAT is the strawman you are using on ME.    My point is to the general behavior of the black community toward law enforcement.    When you resist arrest, bad things happen.   The problem is that  the blacks want to talk about "police brutality"  without talking about the way they respond to police when an officer confronts them about breaking the law.

 

What I see is that you are trying to discuss police brutality but from an entirely one-sided point of view.   Police brutality, properly understood is, for example, when a policeman stops you for speeding, drags you out of the car, cuffs you and starts cussing you out.   If policeman decides to beat a suspect who has complied and is in cuffs and purposely abuses him, then we have a case of police brutality.

 

When a suspect has clearly broken the law and the officer attempts to place him under arrest and the suspect starts throwing punches or tries to grab the officer's gun and or something and the officer responds with force, even having to cause pain and minor injuries in order to subdue the suspect and restore  order, that is not police brutality, but many in the black community want to portray that as brutality.

 

In the case of Freddie Gray,  they admit that they should have gotten him medical treatment, in hindsight.   They didn't know he was as bad as he was.  The autopsy reports are not yet out and there is still an investigation going on  and not all of the evidence is in yet.

 

So you are not really helping anything by rushing to judgment.   You rushed to judgment in the Ferguson case and you are doing the same thing here.   You want this to be about race, just like you did in the Ferguson case. 

A strawman argument is when you are making an argument which is not that which your opponent is making.

 

I never argued that the police target and beat up black men.

 

That is a strawman, as I never argued that.

 

Read my post properly and try again.