Guest shiloh357 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 So, If I am in law enforcement, I can employ violent measures to enforce the law and defend myself against a violent person? But the government is more than law enforcement. What about the military? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot21 Posted May 30, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 28 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,710 Content Per Day: 2.46 Reputation: 8,526 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted May 30, 2015 shiloh357 said in post 108: are you anti-law enforcement?? Are you against having police since they carry guns? God does allow civil authorities to employ weapons and violence against criminals (Romans 13:3-4), and believers are to obey and pay their taxes to support civil authorities (Romans 13:1-6). You just argued yourself out of your own argument. We are to obey our governmental authorities. Our governmental authorities allow us to not only own firearms but to use them for self defense. So does the Bible. Case closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bible2 Posted May 31, 2015 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 642 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 405 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted May 31, 2015 shiloh357 said in post 112: So, If I am in law enforcement, I can employ violent measures to enforce the law and defend myself against a violent person? Not if you are a Christian. For Christians aren't to employ physical weapons or any other violence against people (Matthew 5:39, Matthew 26:52; 2 Corinthians 10:3-5, Ephesians 6:12-18). "I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also" (Matthew 5:39). "Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword" (Matthew 26:52). "For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ" (2 Corinthians 10:3-5). "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints" (Ephesians 6:12-18). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew T. Posted May 31, 2015 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 481 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 537 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/20/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/08/1959 Share Posted May 31, 2015 (edited) I'm not at all sure I'm up to this, but I promised Gary I would not forget about this. He specifically requested New Covenant scripture supporting the use of firearms for whatever the reasons. At the time, I hadn't specifically looked at scripture with this in mind, I only knew I had not encountered anything in scripture that would lead my conscience to struggle over the ownership and use of firearms. Since then I have been watching... and listening... and what I've seen has at times been a little overwhelming? But also I've realized how it is among people. When you encounter a subject such as this, which literally even didn't exist in Biblical times, people are going to take their "personal convictions" in matters of heart... and live by them. THEN, when we are FORCED to stand up and say SOMETHING to "try" and back up our convictions, we will deploy the word of God in any way we can to accommodate. OR? Some may actually think scripture to be interpreted the way they have presented it. I don't know which is which by looking at all the scriptural ping pong that gets played. I mean honestly folks. Scripture doesn't contradict itself. You have to ask yourself: Is the scripture I'm posting, if I'm saying scripture in "insinuating" that firearms are evil, is the subject of that scripture the evil of firearms? HAHAHHAHA. I mean... really. Just for an example: When Peter whacked off that ear while defending Jesus, to prevent the arrest of Jesus, why did Jesus rebuke him? One thing you could do is read all FOUR Gospels to get a more complete understanding. It's clear that it is commonplace to use weapons against criminals... and Jesus didn't rebuke Peter for defending Him, He rebuked Peter for hindering God's will in the matter. For those that wish, you can read the account of all four gospels and see what you think, also. My take on it all is this. There is a time and place for everything under the sun. In all things a man should ask Himself what the will of God is in any given situation and strive NEVER to hinder God's will, with or without a sword. There is nothing biblical requiring men to lay down their weapons, only the requirement that it not hinder God's will. Self-defense is certainly allowed. There is a time for formal war also, a time for peace. But also? This "body" of Christ...of which we are all part... It's different, one part from the other. Not everyone is called to be a head, or brain... Not all are called to be the heart... not all are gifted with desire and ability to be the hands, back, abdomen or feet. Each one different, yes. But we are ALL supposed to be a TEAM! You know? A TEAM... It isn't the job of the mouth to wield the hands. It isn't the job of the heart to work the feet or make all other parts the heart. It's a team effort. Each part of the body has a very specific job with the ultimate result of determining one course of action in accordance with the will of God. Where's the "team effort" in this thread? It's here... but what you see more than anything is division, one part of the body not even recognizing the other. Let me give an impersonal example: Legal immigration to this country; I have absolutely no qualms with legal immigration in that, I would hope MANY people from every nation can be afforded the opportunity to have life, liberty and the "pursuit" of happiness. I don't know how any part of the body would have a problem with that, as we were originally blessed as Gentiles the way we've been in this nation because God saw the blessing we would be to Israel, and anyone who blesses Israel, will be blessed themselves. But when it comes to immigration, God gave us some stringent standards to keep the land from being polluted. Within those protocols, any legal immigrant should recognize that The God of Abraham is the God of this country and therefore swear to be obedient to our God, to the best of their ability. They are to know that they have the freedom to worship GOD in any way they wish... but God, only. Our God. the only real God. Instead? We no longer have such recognition as part of our acceptance/approval procedures. Instead, people are even "encouraged" to bring their god into the country and live for it, even if iT calls iT disciples to war against this nation. There were some "heads" and "hearts" in the body that dropped that ball, or allowed it to be dropped. Now? The hands and feet find themselves pressed in ways completely unnatural in terms of "defense" of this country. My point being, because one part of the body dropped the ball or failed to interpret God's instruction or apply the wisdom thereof, NOW that hands and feet are stressed much more than they should have been, had God's instruction been sustained. You can see the exact same thing going on here... one part of the body warring with the other, each being upset because one part doesn't understand the nature of the other part. Even down to this scriptural ping pong everyone plays now days where the word of God is disgraced by being misrepresented in all kinds of ways. And we are supposed to be the examples? In short? Let the body be the body... from one part to the other, let those be who they are called to be. If God has not expressly forbid their lifestyle and decision in the word of God? Neither should we. We need to concern ourselves more with being who "we" are meant to be... then put forth an effort to be our God-given part of the team. Edited May 31, 2015 by Matthew T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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