What is the difference in the rapture and the second coming?

[Serving]

I just want to say something about the millennial kingdom ..

 

Many will point out that the millennial kingdom ends when Christ hands control back to His Father before the new heavens & earth are created .. thus they will say it can not be eternal so it must not be what we who acknowledge it as being is & that we are mistaken.

 

Yet didn't the Jews say the same about the Messiah? That He could not be the Christ for scriptures say the Christ is eternal !!

 

They did not realize that His physical death wasn't the end, but it was a continuing process .. and the Christ IS indeed eternal as He is alive even today.

 

The millennial reign is the exact same concept .. though the physical side of it will eventually end .. it does not mean those who were physical during the millennium end too .. they just get changed, like the earthly kingdom does too .. thus that kingdom is eternal because it is only the "matter" that makes it what it is which is being changed .. both people & kingdom .. not ended .. changed .. hence it is still an eternal kingdom.

 

Does a caterpillar "end" when in it's cocoon it reverts to a slimy goo .. before emerging as a butterfly? 

 

Not forgetting this .. the physical kingdom has a spiritual side to it where spiritual saints dwell amongst them .. it is not that the millennial kingdom is made up of "spirit bricks" and such superimposed over the physical .. no .. the spiritual kingdom descending is actually describing it's occupants when portraying it's walls & structures etc ..  the kingdom descending represents the true doctrine, the truth from God .. but it's features (wall etc) are metaphor for "her" inhabitants ..

 

Example, walls protect & surround .. the spiritual "wall" represents the 144 000 (kings) who metaphorically surround the inhabitants with the truth which Christ fed them .. the truth protects & surrounds all therein. 

 

Most probably do not realise this : Resurrected saints ALSO need to be FED the truth even AFTER they are resurrected & it is revealed in revelations because ONLY the 144 000 of the last generation know that truth or "song" as it were .. the other resurrected saints are / were polluted with erroneous Christian traditions & doctrines of which will be straightened out & corrected at resurrection .. lest they boast .. they need to understand they were not as sound as they convinced themselves they were. 

 

No boasting allowed EVER .. which will serve to humble them for mocking so many of their brethren when debating and saying amongst themselves .. I am of John or better said in these days, I am of Baptists .. I am of Pentacostals .. I am of Lutheran etc etc etc .. that will not do and they need know their esteemed teachers weren't so esteemed after all but were just as fallible as the rest & with just as many mistakes within them all. 

 

There is always a purpose for everything God does .. boasting & pride will be humbled .. not overlooked .. and every Christian will be humbled when taught the real truth at resurrection .. hence we should never call a fellow believer false when really it is just a reflection of their condition at any set time to do with spiritual learning & growth .. we have all been wrong in the past & will be into the future until perfected.

 

Thus even the coming physical kingdom on earth will be eternal because it does not end at the allotted future melting .. no .. just like the caterpillar .. it is merely to be transformed.

 

God bless.

[thereselittleflower]

 

 

 

These passages are highly symbolic.   They are found in the most symbolic book of the bible.      

 

Christ is reigning now over the kings of the earth just as the apostle John tells us in Rev 1:5.

 

Hi T.L.flower,

 

Of course Christ has been given all authority & indeed has all authority .. but .. He has not yet terminated this ones stewardship over the world :

 

Luke 4

 

5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.

 

6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.

 

7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.

 

8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

 

Notice Christ did not rebuke Satan's boast over his "stewardship" but instead rebuked whom should be worshipped? 

 

Have you ever rented? By law, the owner can not just come in & kick you out, even though he is the owner, no, there must be just cause to terminate the tenancy first .. either that or wait for the lease to expire .. so until the 2nd coming, Satan still rules over his house (earth's kingdoms) which he boasted of above .. then the Son of the Master of the vineyard will return to take back what is & always was .. His.

 

Revelation 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

 

Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

 

Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

 

To rule with a rod of iron means a strong rule with swift retribution for dissent .. now compare to what has really been happening which is easily observable in the world around us these last millennia .. unrestrained lawlessness !! 

 

So what has Christ been doing all this time in regards to the unlawlessness? What of His iron rule? Luckily, scripture shines light on this matter .. a small example :   

 

Isaiah 42:14 I have long time holden my peace; I have been still, and refrained myself: now will I cry like a travailing woman; I will destroy and devour at once.

 

He has been holding His peace .. opposite to ruling with a rod of iron 

 

He has been still .. opposed to ruling with a rod of iron

 

He has been refraining Himself .. opposite to ruling with a rod of iron

 

BUT .. the time will come when :

 

NOW (at the set time to come) will He cry like a travailing woman .. no more holding His peace

 

He will destroy & devour at once .. No longer is "still" .. & .. no more refraining .. now (at the set time to come) comes the rod of iron.

 

It is impossible to say that Christ has "hands on rule" over this lawless world at the moment, haven't you read the Apostles complaint about the wicked thriving even unto his death? How his evil deeds are not punished in this current world .. no .. this is not the rod of iron period .. this is the holding His peace, being still & refraining Himself period .. that is .. Satan's stewardship .. so no, the Lord is not yet reigning over the earth though He is king over ALL creation .. His creation !!

 

So don't overlook the wicked stewards who are ruling & will continue to rule until the return of the Son of the Master of the vineyard to reclaim that which is already His.

 

Regards.

 

 

Hi there.

 

I'm glad we agree that Christ has been given all authority and has all authority.

 

I find your next statement to be a curious along with its scriptural basis.

 

You are using the temptation in the wilderness to support your position that the devil is still in control of this world, that Jesus is not.

 

Yet this very encounter was before Jesus started his ministry as savior of the world.   He had to be tempted and, unlike Adam, not sin.      The scriptures call Jesus the New Adam and they do so for a reason.   For what Adam did in the fall by disobedience, Jesus undid through his obedience.  Until that happened, yes satan still had the same power over the world he had before.  So I would not expect to see any rebuke of the nature you want to find there for the plain language of Rev 1:5 to be true -  Jesus reigns over the kings of the earth now.

 

And again,  Revelation is the most symbolic book of the bible, its language is symbolilc, not literal.  These passages in Revelation are symbolic language.    The book is an apocalyptic writing in the apocalyptic genre and so must be understood to be language used symbolically, not literally.   There is no literal rod of iron. 

 

Now you might say, 'Wait a minute, you're saying that the passage I just used can't be understood in a literal sense, but you just said the verse in chapter one is plain language - either the book of Revelation is symbollic or its not!"

 

Well, the answer to that is this -  the portion I quoted from in Rev 1:5 is a preamble and not part of the apocalyptic writing in the book.  It is an introduction to the writing and thus is interpreted with that understanding. But when John begins to relate the "vision," that is when we enter fully into  the apocalyptic nature of this book which continues until the very end, and everything from that point is highly symbolic.

 

 

Hi T.L.flower,

 

Yes we agree on point #1 .. I don't think anyone holding the same position as I do would disagree with that, I would be shocked if they did !!

 

Think about this .. the 10 kings give their kingdom to the beast .. remember that Satan also gives the beast great power & authority .. think about that .. HOW has Satan this authority to give if he were not ruling?

 

Simply .. he could not !!

 

Thus it becomes evident that Satan, even up until that near future event, which has obviously not yet come yet (mark of the beast etc) .. is still ruling over the kingdoms of the world !! 

 

But lets never forget one very important thing .. Satan is still only ruling within set parameters set by God Himself .. he has lines he can not cross even though he is ruling at the moment .. just like a renter has conditional reign over his what he can & can not do in said house .. almost the same concept at play here .. so again, God is still in control even though the wicked vinedressers are still ruling .. they do not have absolute free reign but reign within set parameters set by God Himself UNTIL the Son returns to reclaim what is & always was .. His.

 

Regards.

 

 

 

Hi again,

 

Keeping in mind that the book of Revelation is highly symbolic,  we would need to consider the symbolic meaning of the 10 kings.     Are these yet a future 10 kings from the pov of John when he penned those words?   Or was he referring to something the readers would have already been familiar with in his day?

 

Being in the genre of apocalyptic literature which was a very popular genre, and a genre like poetry is a genre, or history is a genre, etc., we have to look at the genre first before anything else.  What genre a book is written in will tell us how we are to approach it.   Since Revelation is of the apocalyptic genre, it is not a prophetically explicit foretelling of a chronology of future events.  It may not be about future events at all.  It may indeed be a book about the current events and experiences of the christians at the end of the 1st century using symbolic words they would have understood for current rulers, nations, etc.

 

One such approach to the interpretation of Revelation is to look at it as a book of messages in a "code" that the christians alive then would have clearly understood, using terms they used to speak of the Roman Emperors, etc without drawing attention to itself or to those who read it or possessed it.   

 

Another approach sees the liturgical worship of the first century believers in heaven and earth as the structure for the apocalyptic message of God's ultimate trumph over satan and evil.

 

The approach of looking at the book of Revelation as an actual foretelling of future events and interpreting numbers literally is something fairly new and not held to by the vast majority of believers in Christ.  In fact, given it's genre is apocalyptic literature, it makes no sense to interpret any numbers literally as they are the most symbolic element of apocalyptic literature and we must look for their symbolic meaning.  Hence there is no literal 1000 years.   "A thousand years" has a symbolic meaning that has nothing to do with the literal meaning of the words used.  So it is not literally 1000 years.    Same with days and weeks and years elsewhere.

 

One must first and foremost approach this book, originally called The Apocalypse of John, as part of a much bigger genre, the hallmark of which is its highly symbolic language.  If we do not, we end up with erroneous interpretations of these scriptures, making what is symbolic, literal and what is literal, symbolic, and then one loses their way.

 

 

So the 10 kings must be understood the way the first century christians understood them.   

 

When it comes to satan's power and authority we must again remember we are dealing with the most symbolic book of the bible, and so must seek the symbolic meaning of these words.

 

Satan is the usurper.   Even though Christ is ruling over the kings of the earth now, the fact is those who refuse to submit to his kingship, rather submit to satan, even if unaware.   Just because Jesus is ruling now doesn't mean we have lost our free will to choose if we follow him or satan.      And it doesn't mean that satan has been stripped of all his power and authority.   The words in Revelation say he is restrained.   And if he is not restrained in his dealings with believers, then we can't be saved, for Jesus said that to plunder the strong man he must first be restrained - and this was said in regards to the deliverance of a woman from demonic control.   If Jesus did not first restrain satan, then by his own words he could not have saved her, and cannot save us from satan's grasp either.

 

But he can and he did, because he was restraining satan first. And John depicts this restraining symbolically in Revelation.  To restrain does not have to mean that all power and influence is absent.  It also means 

 

RESTRAIN

 to keep (something) under control.

 

 

And satan is most definitely under control and only allowed to do what God permits.    He is most definitely restrained, bound.  You yourself said 

 

" Satan is still only ruling within set parameters set by God Himself .. he has lines he can not cross "

 

 

if there are parameters set by God, then satan is bound to stay within those paramenters, he is restrained to be within those parameters.   If he has lines he cannot cross, he is restrained, bound by those lines.    

 

Think of someone who is under house arrest wearing a ankle monitor - he can go only so far outside his door and no farther.  

 

He is bound to the house by this system.   He is restrained by it from going where ever he wants.  He is under the control of another.

 

 

Satan is likewise under control,  bound, restrained now.

[Serving]

Hi Serving,

 

Quite understand & pleased to hear a bit of Aussie honesty there. I`m sure you are compassionate most of the time. Anyway, back to our discussion. Now I do agree with a lot of what you say, & can see from your perspective re: Jesus/David shepherd. I thought you might use that tack, if I can say that. Sounds like a chess move. I do love chess, though haven`t played for quite a while. So when I post I do think of what others would say & then know my next move. So that I am not addressing everything at once. I do appreciate 1 Cor. 15: 20 - 28, & thank you for bringing it up. We`ll probably go there again.

 

But for now I would like, if you have time, to consider the following.

 

We know that the Lord Jesus Christ is at the right hand of the Father in the third heaven. This we know is the eternal throne, seat of power of God. Actually He is even over that realm, (over all He created). Then we know that the Lord will be given His own throne, authority to deal with every power & authority, as you said, then give it all up to God the Father. The Lord is -

 

`far above all rule & authority & power & dominion, & every name that is named, not only in this age, but also in the one to come, And He (Father) put all things in subjection under His feet,....` (Eph. 1: 21 & 22)

 

So we see the Lord is over every authority, power & dominion....in the age to come...also. Thus for the Lord to rule physically on the earth He would be below other authorities, powers & even dominions. He would be ruling from His footstool. Whereas Isaiah tells us that heaven is His throne & the earth is His footstool. (Isa. 66: 1)

 

It would be like the Queen over the Commonwealth coming & ruling from my little town nearby! You know she rules over Australia but from England. Her power is over us, & in our courts etc.

 

I have more but you may like to address these thoughts, so far.

 

 

Marilyn.

 

Thanks Marilyn .. I appreciate that ..

 

Lol .. I like chess too but never get to play with anyone anymore .. not the same playing against a computer either !! Can't tease the computer when / if  winning !!

 

I hear your logic sister M (hope you don't mind me addressing you this way? it's quicker to type) .. but there is another logic, please let me elaborate ..  

 

When Christ returns, the real power behind man will be taken and locked up for the 1000k .. that is, Satan himself, the prince of this world as described by Jesus in the gospels !! .. so Christ will not be under any other principalities since their rule is disbanded and usurped by His rule .. thus He who dwells on High .. the Father Himself, will be the only Power "above" at that time.

 

Satan's angels however will not be locked up but will dwell in the ruins of all the cities of the world as described in revelations .. project your spiritual eyes forward as to why God would do this .. simply put, they will help with the resistance amongst those who will not accept Christ's rule even during the millennium .. they will be like a magnet for those who will join Gog for the final confrontation .. like in days gone past, many cults etc met in ruins to "contact" the deceased & worship in secret .. same concept .. 

 

Notice the kingdom's "borders" by measure reach up to the edge of space & also cover the "roof" area likewise (cube shape) .. this is so no prying eyes (fallen angels) can look therein.

 

Yet when Gog see's the kingdom area, this barrier seems to be removed .. WHY? .. it's called a false flag .. Satan (who will be with Gog) will be emboldened and think his little foray can continue as it has all these millennia .. but it will be a snare unto him .. a trap to make sure they all gather in one place for to be destroyed .. just like what God is doing for Armageddon .. gathering them in one place before destroying them.

 

So again, when Christ comes down to rule, there will be no authority "above" Him because He Himself removes them from their rule & the only other power left "above Him" will be His own Father, something not at all undesirable.

 

God bless.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Serving,

 

Interesting thoughts there bro. However ...

 

Let`s say Christ is ruling on the earth - So please tell me about -

 

1. Who is upholding the universe etc?

2. Who is directing the myriads of angels as Christ is their Captain?

3. Who is looking after those who are in the General Assembly awaiting their inheritance in the New Jerusalem?

4. Who is looking after those who will be dying in the millennium?

5. And why are people sick & dying when the Lord is supposed to be there?

6. And why is it that the Lord is `holed up` in the camp of the saints when Satan is released & surrounds them with the nations?

7. Why does the Lord not consume them with the brightness of His glory?

 

etc etc  etc & I could go on, but you get the general feel of what I am saying.

 

Marilyn.

[Guest shiloh357]

Marilyn,

 

David will serve as a co-regent with Jesus ON earth.   It really is simple when you believe the Bible and are not employing sloppy exegesis.

[Serving]

 

 

 

 

These passages are highly symbolic.   They are found in the most symbolic book of the bible.      

 

Christ is reigning now over the kings of the earth just as the apostle John tells us in Rev 1:5.

 

Hi T.L.flower,

 

Of course Christ has been given all authority & indeed has all authority .. but .. He has not yet terminated this ones stewardship over the world :

 

Luke 4

 

5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.

 

6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.

 

7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.

 

8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

 

Notice Christ did not rebuke Satan's boast over his "stewardship" but instead rebuked whom should be worshipped? 

 

Have you ever rented? By law, the owner can not just come in & kick you out, even though he is the owner, no, there must be just cause to terminate the tenancy first .. either that or wait for the lease to expire .. so until the 2nd coming, Satan still rules over his house (earth's kingdoms) which he boasted of above .. then the Son of the Master of the vineyard will return to take back what is & always was .. His.

 

Revelation 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

 

Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

 

Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

 

To rule with a rod of iron means a strong rule with swift retribution for dissent .. now compare to what has really been happening which is easily observable in the world around us these last millennia .. unrestrained lawlessness !! 

 

So what has Christ been doing all this time in regards to the unlawlessness? What of His iron rule? Luckily, scripture shines light on this matter .. a small example :   

 

Isaiah 42:14 I have long time holden my peace; I have been still, and refrained myself: now will I cry like a travailing woman; I will destroy and devour at once.

 

He has been holding His peace .. opposite to ruling with a rod of iron 

 

He has been still .. opposed to ruling with a rod of iron

 

He has been refraining Himself .. opposite to ruling with a rod of iron

 

BUT .. the time will come when :

 

NOW (at the set time to come) will He cry like a travailing woman .. no more holding His peace

 

He will destroy & devour at once .. No longer is "still" .. & .. no more refraining .. now (at the set time to come) comes the rod of iron.

 

It is impossible to say that Christ has "hands on rule" over this lawless world at the moment, haven't you read the Apostles complaint about the wicked thriving even unto his death? How his evil deeds are not punished in this current world .. no .. this is not the rod of iron period .. this is the holding His peace, being still & refraining Himself period .. that is .. Satan's stewardship .. so no, the Lord is not yet reigning over the earth though He is king over ALL creation .. His creation !!

 

So don't overlook the wicked stewards who are ruling & will continue to rule until the return of the Son of the Master of the vineyard to reclaim that which is already His.

 

Regards.

 

 

Hi there.

 

I'm glad we agree that Christ has been given all authority and has all authority.

 

I find your next statement to be a curious along with its scriptural basis.

 

You are using the temptation in the wilderness to support your position that the devil is still in control of this world, that Jesus is not.

 

Yet this very encounter was before Jesus started his ministry as savior of the world.   He had to be tempted and, unlike Adam, not sin.      The scriptures call Jesus the New Adam and they do so for a reason.   For what Adam did in the fall by disobedience, Jesus undid through his obedience.  Until that happened, yes satan still had the same power over the world he had before.  So I would not expect to see any rebuke of the nature you want to find there for the plain language of Rev 1:5 to be true -  Jesus reigns over the kings of the earth now.

 

And again,  Revelation is the most symbolic book of the bible, its language is symbolilc, not literal.  These passages in Revelation are symbolic language.    The book is an apocalyptic writing in the apocalyptic genre and so must be understood to be language used symbolically, not literally.   There is no literal rod of iron. 

 

Now you might say, 'Wait a minute, you're saying that the passage I just used can't be understood in a literal sense, but you just said the verse in chapter one is plain language - either the book of Revelation is symbollic or its not!"

 

Well, the answer to that is this -  the portion I quoted from in Rev 1:5 is a preamble and not part of the apocalyptic writing in the book.  It is an introduction to the writing and thus is interpreted with that understanding. But when John begins to relate the "vision," that is when we enter fully into  the apocalyptic nature of this book which continues until the very end, and everything from that point is highly symbolic.

 

 

Hi T.L.flower,

 

Yes we agree on point #1 .. I don't think anyone holding the same position as I do would disagree with that, I would be shocked if they did !!

 

Think about this .. the 10 kings give their kingdom to the beast .. remember that Satan also gives the beast great power & authority .. think about that .. HOW has Satan this authority to give if he were not ruling?

 

Simply .. he could not !!

 

Thus it becomes evident that Satan, even up until that near future event, which has obviously not yet come yet (mark of the beast etc) .. is still ruling over the kingdoms of the world !! 

 

But lets never forget one very important thing .. Satan is still only ruling within set parameters set by God Himself .. he has lines he can not cross even though he is ruling at the moment .. just like a renter has conditional reign over his what he can & can not do in said house .. almost the same concept at play here .. so again, God is still in control even though the wicked vinedressers are still ruling .. they do not have absolute free reign but reign within set parameters set by God Himself UNTIL the Son returns to reclaim what is & always was .. His.

 

Regards.

 

 

 

Hi again,

 

Keeping in mind that the book of Revelation is highly symbolic,  we would need to consider the symbolic meaning of the 10 kings.     Are these yet a future 10 kings from the pov of John when he penned those words?   Or was he referring to something the readers would have already been familiar with in his day?

 

Being in the genre of apocalyptic literature which was a very popular genre, and a genre like poetry is a genre, or history is a genre, etc., we have to look at the genre first before anything else.  What genre a book is written in will tell us how we are to approach it.   Since Revelation is of the apocalyptic genre, it is not a prophetically explicit foretelling of a chronology of future events.  It may not be about future events at all.  It may indeed be a book about the current events and experiences of the christians at the end of the 1st century using symbolic words they would have understood for current rulers, nations, etc.

 

One such approach to the interpretation of Revelation is to look at it as a book of messages in a "code" that the christians alive then would have clearly understood, using terms they used to speak of the Roman Emperors, etc without drawing attention to itself or to those who read it or possessed it.   

 

Another approach sees the liturgical worship of the first century believers in heaven and earth as the structure for the apocalyptic message of God's ultimate trumph over satan and evil.

 

The approach of looking at the book of Revelation as an actual foretelling of future events and interpreting numbers literally is something fairly new and not held to by the vast majority of believers in Christ.  In fact, given it's genre is apocalyptic literature, it makes no sense to interpret any numbers literally as they are the most symbolic element of apocalyptic literature and we must look for their symbolic meaning.  Hence there is no literal 1000 years.   "A thousand years" has a symbolic meaning that has nothing to do with the literal meaning of the words used.  So it is not literally 1000 years.    Same with days and weeks and years elsewhere.

 

One must first and foremost approach this book, originally called The Apocalypse of John, as part of a much bigger genre, the hallmark of which is its highly symbolic language.  If we do not, we end up with erroneous interpretations of these scriptures, making what is symbolic, literal and what is literal, symbolic, and then one loses their way.

 

 

So the 10 kings must be understood the way the first century christians understood them.   

 

When it comes to satan's power and authority we must again remember we are dealing with the most symbolic book of the bible, and so must seek the symbolic meaning of these words.

 

Satan is the usurper.   Even though Christ is ruling over the kings of the earth now, the fact is those who refuse to submit to his kingship, rather submit to satan, even if unaware.   Just because Jesus is ruling now doesn't mean we have lost our free will to choose if we follow him or satan.      And it doesn't mean that satan has been stripped of all his power and authority.   The words in Revelation say he is restrained.   And if he is not restrained in his dealings with believers, then we can't be saved, for Jesus said that to plunder the strong man he must first be restrained - and this was said in regards to the deliverance of a woman from demonic control.   If Jesus did not first restrain satan, then by his own words he could not have saved her, and cannot save us from satan's grasp either.

 

But he can and he did, because he was restraining satan first. And John depicts this restraining symbolically in Revelation.  To restrain does not have to mean that all power and influence is absent.  It also means 

 

RESTRAIN

 to keep (something) under control.

 

 

And satan is most definitely under control and only allowed to do what God permits.    He is most definitely restrained, bound.  You yourself said 

 

" Satan is still only ruling within set parameters set by God Himself .. he has lines he can not cross "

 

 

if there are parameters set by God, then satan is bound to stay within those paramenters, he is restrained to be within those parameters.   If he has lines he cannot cross, he is restrained, bound by those lines.    

 

Think of someone who is under house arrest wearing a ankle monitor - he can go only so far outside his door and no farther.  

 

He is bound to the house by this system.   He is restrained by it from going where ever he wants.  He is under the control of another.

 

 

Satan is likewise under control,  bound, restrained now.

 

 

HI Therese ,

 

I will answer you after work tomorrow night so please don't think me rude .. I must start getting ready to go out for a family gathering ..

 

God bless.

[Guest shiloh357]

Littleflower has a one-dimensional approach to the book of Revelation.   Here entire argument against what the Bible says rests on the assumption that she brush away anything she doesn't agree with in Revelation by simply "symbolic."  

 

You don't have to believe anything in the Bible when you operate that way.  Not everything in Revelation is symbolic; that is an uncomfortable truth that littleflower can't face up to.  

[Marilyn C]

Marilyn,

 

David will serve as a co-regent with Jesus ON earth.   It really is simple when you believe the Bible and are not employing sloppy exegesis.

Hi shiloh357,

 

Yes indeed, David will be co-regent with the Lord but not on earth. You can drum all you like about `sloppy exegesis,` (I have been to Bible College, not that you need that to correctly interpret God`s word) but I have NOT, repeat NOT seen you post ONE scripture that shows that Christ will be ruling ON earth for the duration of the millennium!

 

Marilyn.

[Serving]

Hi Serving,

 

Interesting thoughts there bro. However ...

 

Let`s say Christ is ruling on the earth - So please tell me about -

 

1. Who is upholding the universe etc?

2. Who is directing the myriads of angels as Christ is their Captain?

3. Who is looking after those who are in the General Assembly awaiting their inheritance in the New Jerusalem?

4. Who is looking after those who will be dying in the millennium?

5. And why are people sick & dying when the Lord is supposed to be there?

6. And why is it that the Lord is `holed up` in the camp of the saints when Satan is released & surrounds them with the nations?

7. Why does the Lord not consume them with the brightness of His glory?

 

etc etc  etc & I could go on, but you get the general feel of what I am saying.

 

Marilyn.

 

Hi sister M ..

 

There's a lot of points there   .. I like that I must confess, kinda like chess moves Lol.

 

I am to get ready to go out for tonight but will briefly answer now since we are already here & already discussing ..

 

1 > Who is upholding the universe etc? God upholds the universe with His will .. His location is moot.

 

2 > Who is directing the myriads of angels as Christ is their Captain? Scripture states that Christ comes with His angels, so He is still directing them .. btw, that angel who was the captain of the hosts of heaven was likely Michael for he had his sword in His hand .. Christ's "sword" however is in His mouth .. that is, His spoken word.

 

3 > Who is looking after those who are in the General Assembly awaiting their inheritance in the New Jerusalem? Wherever Christ is, there too is the assembly.

 

4 > Who is looking after those who will be dying in the millennium?  The dead are in the grave until resurrected .. even then .. the dead need no "looking after". 

 

5 > And why are people sick & dying when the Lord is supposed to be there? That (the sick ) are only those who are outside of the kingdom borders (the rest of the world's surface where death also still occurs), there will be no suffering within the kingdom's borders themselves however.. people will ONLY die of OLD age in the kingdom borders (ever heard it said, died PEACEFULLY in their sleep?), however the resurrected saints can not die & don't, but the human inhabitants can & do.

 

6 > And why is it that the Lord is `holed up` in the camp of the saints when Satan is released & surrounds them with the nations? If you look at my post a little further above, I mentioned something relating to this question funnily enough !!

 

7 > Why does the Lord not consume them with the brightness of His glory? Two reasons, 1 reason is exactly why the Apostles weren't consumed when He revealed Himself to them in the flesh though He is really Spirit .. secondly, the consuming is only aimed at the wicked & not at the "good".

 

 

.. Your move now sis .. so I'll get back to you tomorrow night after work .. no wait !! .. going out tomorrow night too .. get back to you Monday after work okay .. I promise. 

 

God bless.

Edited July 18, 2015 by Serving

[Guest shiloh357]

I have repeatedly made the scriptural case that the Messianic Kingdom will be on the earth.   I have posted plenty of Scripture and scriptural arguments to that end.   It is not  my fault you failed to read those posts.  To sum up what I said previously,

 

1.  The OT references to the Messianic Kingdom, in Isaiah, Ezekiel, Micah, Amos, etc.  all place that Kingdom on the earth, and in Israel, specifically

 

2.  Revelation 19:11 to the end of chapter 20 have their primary theater on earth, not in heaven.

 

3.  Jesus still has messianic prophecies related to his role as Israel's Messiah that must be fulfilled to Israel on earth, not in heaven.

 

4.  Ezekiel's temple will have the throne Jesus will sit upon and that temple is on earth, not in heaven and it is still a future temple.  It will be the millennial temple.

 

5. Revelation 20: 8,9 tells us of a final rebellion on the earth against the saints who are there on the earth after Satan is released.   Satan isn't leading a rebellion up in heaven.  He is leading an assault on the earth against the saints on the earth, which means that the saints were NOT taken to heaven when Jesus came back.