thereselittleflower Posted July 18, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.67 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 18, 2015 How can someone cite a source for a non-historical event that no one has written about, that is not part of the historical record?? Your question is irrational. Your asking for an impossible source because there is no historical record for non-historical events. No one has to cite a source to confirm that a historical event never happened. That's just stupid. You only require sources for claims of particular events that are claimed to have happened. If I claimed that extra-terrestrials visited the White House during the Nixon Administration, then I would be expected to provide evidence and source material for that claim. No one is asking anyone to prove that extra-terrestrials never visited the White House during the Nixon Administration. So what your asking for is proof that Ezekiel 38 and 39 have not happened. If you think it IS historical , then the burden would be on you to show that it is, and to cite the historians who claim such. As it is, you appear to be thinking that if I, or anyone else, cannot prove that it didn't happen, then you are free to believe that Ezekiel 38, 39 are historical events because no one has proven their non-historicity and that is logically backwards. Shiloh, how do you know it has never happened? If you are going to make a de-facto, hard and fast claim something has never happened, you should be prepared to support your claim with actual evidence from expert sources since you yourself have stated you are not an expert in Jewish history. Just claiming something does not make it true. All you are doing is asserting something. Your assertion means nothing without evidence. You talk in absolute black and white terms and act as though you know many things for certain and absolutely, but when it comes time to actually prove what you know and how you know it, like here, you can't. All this means is we should take what you claim with a grain of salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 How do I know extra-terrestrials never visited the White House???? Do I need evidence to support the claim that alien creatures from another planet never visited the president of the US???? Do you not see how irrational your question is??? I can say that Ezekiel 38 and 39 have never happened because there is NO historian who claims it has happened. No one has written about it. There are no sources claiming it DID happen. So I don't have to find any evidence to prove something that never happened. You only have to provide evidence for positive claims. In a court of law, only one side as the burden of proof. The people claiming that a murder took place have to provide the evidence proving their allegation. The defense doesn't have to prove the murder didn't happen. They just have create reasonable doubt in the mind of the jury. You never prove a non-event. You are simply operating from a logical fallacy. I am not making a positive assertion, though. I am saying that Ezekiel 38 is a prophecy, not a historical event. Unless you can show that it actually happened, then my claim stands to be true, even if you are too irrational to accept it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted July 18, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.67 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 18, 2015 Shloh you got this idea that the events in Ezekiel 38 have never happened from somewhere. It didn't just pop into your head all on its own. Where did you get this idea from? This is a very simple question and should have a very simple answer. Why won't you answer it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted July 18, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.87 Content Count: 43,800 Content Per Day: 6.17 Reputation: 11,247 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted July 18, 2015 What do I need to provide evidence for?? The Bible says Iran (Persia) will attack. What evidence do I need? The Bible's claims aren't good enough for you? Are you saying there is no proof for your interpretation of this scripture? It just means what you say because you say so? Did you read the scripture therese? Oh yes I did, and have many times. What makes this scripture about an event still future to us though? Has the prophecy happened yet? No. Then its in the future. Why do you think it hasn't happened yet? Such an event has not happened in history. There is no record of such an event happening in history. Therefore it is a future prophetic event. How do you know this? Who told you this? What is your source for this information? I dont mean this to sound snarky, but I believe what the bible says. Do you? The bible is my source of information. It is a prophecy in the bible. Do you believe that that the prophecies in ezekiel are true? I believe those prophecies are true. A prophecy that has not come true yet is either a future prophecy or a false prophecy (and then the bible is false). I believe the bible is true and it is a future prophecy. What do you believe about that chapter in ezekiel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted July 18, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.67 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 18, 2015 For the sake of argument, let's take your example of knowing extra-terrestrials have never visited the white house. Do you know absolutely, with 100% certainty extra-terrestrials have never visited the white house? Or do you assume, because you have no knowledge of something like this happening, that it never has? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted July 18, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.87 Content Count: 43,800 Content Per Day: 6.17 Reputation: 11,247 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted July 18, 2015 Shloh you got this idea that the events in Ezekiel 38 have never happened from somewhere. It didn't just pop into your head all on its own. Where did you get this idea from? This is a very simple question and should have a very simple answer. Why won't you answer it? One doesnt have to be an expert or a phd scholar to know certain historical facts. All nations going against israel have not yet occurred. What do you believe about those chapters? Do you have evidence to support your belief about those chapters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Yeah, it didn't pop into my head all by itself. If the huge coalition of nations and converged upon Israel to destroy it, there would be a record of that major event, given how it is described. It would not be a footnote in history. It would the single largest full-scale invasion of any nation at any time in history and as such it would be part of the historical record of not only Israel, but of the invading nations and other nations as well. It doesn't take too much commonsense to know that such an event never happened. The fact that you would even think it is an issue that is up for debate only shows how juvenile your approach to this is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted July 18, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.67 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 18, 2015 What do I need to provide evidence for?? The Bible says Iran (Persia) will attack. What evidence do I need? The Bible's claims aren't good enough for you? Are you saying there is no proof for your interpretation of this scripture? It just means what you say because you say so? Did you read the scripture therese? Oh yes I did, and have many times. What makes this scripture about an event still future to us though? Has the prophecy happened yet? No. Then its in the future. Why do you think it hasn't happened yet? Such an event has not happened in history. There is no record of such an event happening in history. Therefore it is a future prophetic event. How do you know this? Who told you this? What is your source for this information? I dont mean this to sound snarky, but I believe what the bible says. Do you? The bible is my source of information. It is a prophecy in the bible. Do you believe that that the prophecies in ezekiel are true? I believe those prophecies are true. A prophecy that has not come true yet is either a future prophecy or a false prophecy (and then the bible is false). I believe the bible is true and it is a future prophecy. What do you believe about that chapter in ezekiel? I appreciate you don't mean to sound snarky or mean. And I don't think you are. I think we simply need to come to a basic understanding of what it means to know something or not know something versus assuming something to be true absent evidence we are aware of to the contrary (that does not mean evidence does not exist, it simply means if it does exist, we are not aware of it yet). When Ezekiel wrote those words, they can be looked at as future to the time period he wrote them in. From our perspective there have been thousands of years between then and now. That's thousands of years in which we can look for fulfillment of that prophecy. If it was fulfilled in the thousand of years between us and when Ezekiel wrote those words, then they were fulfilled in the future from his perspective which is what would matter here. That means, these words could have been fulfilled before you were even born. So given all this, how do you know that it hasn't already been fulfilled? Where did this idea his words have not yet been fulfilled come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted July 18, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.67 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 18, 2015 Shloh you got this idea that the events in Ezekiel 38 have never happened from somewhere. It didn't just pop into your head all on its own. Where did you get this idea from? This is a very simple question and should have a very simple answer. Why won't you answer it? One doesnt have to be an expert or a phd scholar to know certain historical facts. All nations going against israel have not yet occurred. What do you believe about those chapters? Do you have evidence to support your belief about those chapters? How do you know this? I am asking you to examine what you believe to be true here. Where did you get the idea that Ezekiel 38 has not yet been fulfilled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Fulfilled prophecy is mostly part of the historical record. If the prophecy of Ezekiel 38 and 39 were fulfilled thousands of years ago, given the universal, worldwide scale of the event, it would be part of the historical record. One of the ways we can chart the Bible's accuracy is how it agrees with the historical record particularly in the area of fulfilled prophecy. If it were fulfilled back then, we would use it as proof of the Bible's accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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