The Revelation of Jesus - The Judge & Creator. (Vision 4. ch. 17 & 18)

[Marilyn C]

REVELATION 17 & 18.

In the unveiling by God the Father, I believe the fourth vision of the Lord is -

Vision 4.    CHRIST -  JUDGE & CREATOR.  (Rev. 14 – 22)

 

This reveals the entitled Son of Man as the Sublime Adjudicator

 `in His hand is a sharp sickle.`

 

 

The Lord said, “ For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son.` (John 5: 22)

 

 

So what do you see in Rev. 17 & 18 as the details of the judgments of the Son?

 

And what does this reveal of Christ`s character?

 

Marilyn

 

 

[Marilyn C]

 

Q. So what do you see in Rev. 17 & 18 as the details of the judgments of the Son?

 

First I see that God not only judges people but also man`s system of Government. We are given quite a description of it & how it operates.

 

`And great Babylon was remembered before God, to her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath.` (Rev. 16: 19)

                  

The city of Babylon in Iraq is being rebuilt & it is destined I believe, to become the centre of the last Gentile Global Government. The Anti-Christ will rule from Babylon with the 10 kings, over the whole world. The Political, Economic & Religious aspects of people`s lives will all be controlled from this demonic centre.

 

`And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth.` (Rev. 17: 18)

 

The river Euphrates is even now being deepened so that ocean liners can navigate the river right up to the city of Babylon. The wealth of the world will be brought right into the heart of Babylon along the river which flows through it.

 

 `that great city, in which all who had ships on the sea became rich by her wealth.` (Rev. 18: 19)

 

Historically the city of Babylon was where man attempted to `make a name` for himself. The region was called the land of Shinar & this is where man sought to build a very tall tower to give himself prominence. God however confused their language & thus the name Babylon came to mean confusion. 

 

`they found a plain in the land of Shinar... Come let us build a city & a tower .... Let us make a name for ourselves.. The Lord confused their language ...& scattered them....`(Gen.10: 2, 4 & 9)

 

 Babylon – Heb. word `Babel,` meaning confusion.

 

 

Now at the end of the Gentile`s rule we see again man `building a city` with the desire for world dominance. This has been foretold by the prophet Zechariah who presented it as a metaphoric picture. Babylon will again become the prominent city at the end of this age.

 

 `this is a woman .....this is Wickedness.`To be set `in the land of Shinar.` (Babylon, Iraq) (Zech. 5: 7, 8  & 11)

 

Marilyn.

 

 

     

                                                                                                  

 

 

Edited August 21, 2015 by Marilyn C

[Marilyn C]

The first aspect of the city of Babylon that we are shown, is the Religious system. The false prophet brings together all the religions of the world & this is revealed to us in symbolic form as a great prostitute – a great profanity of blasphemy & a violation of sacred things. (Rev.13: 12)

 

`Then one of the 7 angels who had the 7 bowls came & talked to me, saying to me,  “Come, I will show you the judgment of the great prostitute...`  (Rev. 17: 1)

Prostitute – Heb. word, `chalal,`  figurative meaning -  to profane.

 

This great prostitute, man`s religious system is very richly adorned & seduces by offering wonderful things, `a golden cup,` but actually it is filled with abominations & filthiness.

 

 `The woman was arrayed in purple & scarlet, & adorned with gold & precious stones & pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations & the filthiness of her fornication.`(Rev. 17: 4)

 

These are the works of the flesh –

 

`which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery,  hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revels & the like...` (Gal: 5: 19 – 21)                                 

  

`And on her forehead a name was written: Mystery, Babylon the great, the mother of prostitutes (profanities) & of the abominations of the earth.`(Rev. 17: 5)

 

 

Instead of honouring God their Creator, people are deceived into worshipping the creation. Thus having no accountability they are given over to all manner of uncleaness.

 

 

`Professing to be wise, they became fools, & changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man. Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts to dishonour their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie,& worshipped & served the creature rather than the Creator,...`(Rom. 1: 25)  

         

`because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.... God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,..` (2 Thess. 2: 8 – 12) 

 

Marilyn.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 22, 2015 by Marilyn C

[Marilyn C]

 

The picture we now see is of this religious system in a close relationship with the Political aspect of the Global Government : `the woman sitting on a scarlet beast.` This shows that the `beast` is carrying or using religion for its own ends.

    

 `So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having 7 heads & 10 horns.`

                                                                          

 `And when I saw her, I marvelled with great amazement.  But the angel said to me, “Why did you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman & of the beast that carries her, which has 7 heads & 10 horns.`(Rev. 17: 3, 6 & 7)

 

 

 Satan who comes out of hell is the power behind the Global Government, the `beast.` He takes possession of the Anti-Christ, (leader of the beastly Global Government) who seemingly died & came to life again. This is what the phrase `was, & is not & yet is,` refers to.

 

 `The beast that you saw was, & is not, & will ascend out of the bottomless pit & go to perdition.  And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, & is not & yet is.`(Rev. 17: 8)

 

 

We are now given details of the leadership of this Global Government. The 7 heads, are symbolically 7 mountains meaning they have the highest position in the world: its leaders. They are the `7 kings,`  the 7 Political leaders who arise consecutively one at a time, to rule the `beastly` Global Government.

 

`Here is the mind which has wisdom: the 7 heads are 7 mountains on which the woman sits & they are7 kings. (NAS)` (Rev. 17: 9)

 

There were five leaders prior to the tribulation (have fallen) & the 6^th rules during its beginning. Finally the Anti-Christ rises to power & rules for the last three & a half years.  Satan is the 8^th entity but becomes part of the 7, when he enters, influences the Anti-Christ.

 

 

 ` 5 have fallen, one is, & the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. And the beast that was, & is not, is himself also the 8<sup>th</sup>, & is of the 7, & is going to perdition.`(Rev. 17: 10 & 11) 

 

 

 

Marilyn.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 22, 2015 by Marilyn C

[Sonseeahray]

Revelation Chapter 17 (NASB)
⁸  "The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come.
⁹  "Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits,
¹⁰  and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while.
¹¹  "The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction. 

This is not as complicated as it seems in the light of history. It all begins with the King who now is. this would be number 6. This is our anchor point in the sequence of the eight Kings. This historically was Domitian. So now we can make our list of Kings. Note that there is no requirement to start with Augustus - the first  "King." (Emperor) It just says “they are seven Kings.” King number one and two are not important and are only place markers in the list. Nero is important because he is one of the seven.

1. Caligula          Fallen (dead)

2. Claudius         Fallen

3. Nero               Fallen

4. Vespasian      Fallen

5.Titus                Fallen

6. Domitian - the ONE IS "King"

7. Nero      The one who is a member of the seven (#3). The one who was and is not and will come out of the abyss. When he comes he will remain a little while. This was the persecution under Domitian which lasted about three and a half years. 93 to 96AD.

8. Nero + Domitian      The beast that was and is not is also an eighth .

John here is playing on the popular myth of the day that Nero was not really dead but had fled to Parthia and would one day re-cross the Euphrates river and retake the Roman empire.(Redivivus Myth) This myth persisted for over 20 years after his death in 68AD. However there were die-hards who believed that he would be resurrected from the dead long after the 20 years to accomplish this.

So what is Johns simple message in this riddle written to THE FIRST CENTURY CHRISTIANS? It was simple - he was telling them that there was a second persecution (The first was under Nero) coming on the church. He is saying that the evil cruel spirit that controlled Nero was going to come upon Domitian which would cause the second persecution of the Church.. Did this happen historically? Indeed it did.

Here is what history tells us. Domitian was a mild ruler when he took office in 81AD after his brother Titus had died - some say with Domitian's help. In 89AD Saturninus made an attempt to take over Domitian's throne. This failed mainly because the two Legions of troops that Saturninus had enlisted in his cause were unable to assist him in his effort because the river Tiber had thawed unexpectedly that spring so the two legions could not cross to come to his aid. This event caused a radical change in Domitian's character in 89AD for the worst and it was after this that this evil spirit took him over and it wasn't very long before he started killing Christians - in 93AD - according to Will Durant who says that this point in time Domitian's whole personality changed for the worst. It was not just the Christians that he persecuted but there was a general bloodbath of any that he even suspected of being disloyal.

Because of his new paranoia about disloyalty - he wrote laws requiring all subjects of the Empire to stand before a statue of himself and annually declare that "Caesar is Lord is God."  The Christians would not do this "act of loyalty" and so they were martyred. This was a big problem in the Church. But this combined spirit of Nero operating in Domitian could only stay for a little while - 3 1/2 years before Domitian was assassinated. This was the eighth King – Domitian possessed by the evil spirit like that of Nero

Those subjects of the Empire who did sacrifice before a statue of the “King” (read Emperor) were given a legal signed (by the city magistrates) document called a Sybillis that verified that the holder had completed his required oath of allegiance to the emperor and now was a subject of the empire in good standing – for a year. The Sybillis allowed that subject to buy and sell. The Christians did not have a Sybillis because they would not sacrifice before the statue so they could not buy or sell. A major problem for the persecuted Church at the end of the first century. The Christian Encyclopedia lists the number of Martyrs under Nero as 5,000. Under Domitian – 2,000. The greatest number of martyrs was under Diocletian who killed an estimated 450,000 Christians. But Domitian was the one who began this practice of forcing the Christians to perform this Roman Cultic rite generally called “The Imperial Cult.”

How about Chapter 17 from where we left off? This is completely different story. 17:12 begins a new subject. From 17:12 to 18:20 is a historical review of the judgment of God on Rome – it is a review of the great fire of Rome in 64AD. John has a message embedded in his review of history and tells us of a number of things that we and even history does not know. Chapter 18:21 is a passage about the final Judgment of Rome which was fulfilled on 410AD with the invasion of Alaric the Visigoth.

I can cover the fire of Rome if anyone is interested. Nerva succeeded Domitian and cancelled this annual oath of allegiance but it never completely went away. Here is the letter of Pliney to Trajan on the subject of Christians. The persecution under Domitian ended or subsided in 96AD when Domitian was assassinated.

Pliny the Younger was governor of Pontus/Bithynia from 111-113 AD. We have a whole set of exchanges of his letters with the emperor Trajan on a variety of administrative political matters. These two letters are the most famous, in which Pliney encounters Christianity for the first time.

Pliny, Letters 10.96-97

Pliny to the Emperor Trajan

It is my practice, my lord, to refer to you all matters concerning which I am in doubt. For who can better give guidance to my hesitation or inform my ignorance? I have never participated in trials of Christians. I therefore do not know what offenses it is the practice to punish or investigate, and to what extent. And I have been not a little hesitant as to whether there should be any distinction on account of age or no difference between the very young and the more mature; whether pardon is to be granted for repentance, or, if a man has once been a Christian, it does him no good to have ceased to be one; whether the name itself, even without offenses, or only the offenses associated with the name are to be punished.

Meanwhile, in the case of those who were denounced to me as Christians, I have observed the following procedure: I interrogated these as to whether they were Christians; those who confessed I interrogated a second and a third time, threatening them with punishment; those who persisted I ordered executed. For I had no doubt that, whatever the nature of their creed, stubbornness and inflexible obstinacy surely deserve to be punished. There were others possessed of the same folly; but because they were Roman citizens, I signed an order for them to be transferred to Rome.

Soon accusations spread, as usually happens, because of the proceedings going on, and several incidents occurred. An anonymous document was published containing the names of many persons. Those who denied that they were or had been Christians, when they invoked the gods in words dictated by me, offered prayer with incense and wine to your image, which I had ordered to be brought for this purpose together with statues of the gods, and moreover cursed Christ--none of which those who are really Christians, it is said, can be forced to do--these I thought should be discharged. Others named by the informer declared that they were Christians, but then denied it, asserting that they had been but had ceased to be, some three years before, others many years, some as much as twenty-five years. They all worshipped your image and the statues of the gods, and cursed Christ.

They asserted, however, that the sum and substance of their fault or error had been that they were accustomed to meet on a fixed day before dawn and sing responsively a hymn to Christ as to a god, and to bind themselves by oath, not to some crime, but not to commit fraud, theft, or adultery, not falsify their trust, nor to refuse to return a trust when called upon to do so. When this was over, it was their custom to depart and to assemble again to partake of food--but ordinary and innocent food. Even this, they affirmed, they had ceased to do after my edict by which, in accordance with your instructions, I had forbidden political associations. Accordingly, I judged it all the more necessary to find out what the truth was by torturing two female slaves who were called deaconesses. But I discovered nothing else but depraved, excessive superstition.

I therefore postponed the investigation and hastened to consult you. For the matter seemed to me to warrant consulting you, especially because of the number involved. For many persons of every age, every rank, and also of both sexes are and will be endangered. For the contagion of this superstition has spread not only to the cities but also to the villages and farms. But it seems possible to check and cure it. It is certainly quite clear that the temples, which had been almost deserted, have begun to be frequented, that the established religious rites, long neglected, are being resumed, and that from everywhere sacrificial animals are coming, for which until now very few purchasers could be found. Hence it is easy to imagine what a multitude of people can be reformed if an opportunity for repentance is afforded.

Trajan to Pliny

You observed proper procedure, my dear Pliny, in sifting the cases of those who had been denounced to you as Christians. For it is not possible to lay down any general rule to serve as a kind of fixed standard. They are not to be sought out; if they are denounced and proved guilty, they are to be punished, with this reservation, that whoever denies that he is a Christian and really proves it--that is, by worshiping our gods--even though he was under suspicion in the past, shall obtain pardon through repentance. But anonymously posted accusations ought to have no place in any prosecution. For this is both a dangerous kind of precedent and out of keeping with the spirit of our age.

 

 

[Marilyn C]

The Prophet Daniel was given a good description of the Anti-Christ.

 

 `At the appointed time.....forces shall be mustered by him, then the king (of the North) shall do according to his own will: He shall exalt & magnify himself above every god, shall speak blasphemies against the God of gods,.....` (Dan. 11: 29 – 37)

 

 

He is called the King of the North . (Note this is the area just north of Israel & not the far north which is Russia. Ez. 39: 2) This is the region of old Assyria that has now been divided into 3 countries: Iraq, Syria & Jordan. These will consolidate together and become the power base of the Anti-Christ.

 

The Anti-Christ is thus called the Assyrian, (Isa. 10: 24,  31: 8   &  Micah 5: 5) and he brings together the 3 countries, Iraq, Syria & Jordan with 7 other countries to form the Islamic confederation of 10.  These are the 10 kings that receive authority & power with the Anti-Christ for three & a half years.

 

 

 `And the 10 horns which you saw are 10 kings  who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast.`(Rev. 17: 12)

 

 

They believe that the Anti-Christ is their long awaited Messiah & thus even make war with the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.

 

 

 `These are of one mind, & they will give their power & authority to the beast.These will make war with the Lamb, & the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords & King of kings; & those who are with Him are called, chosen, & faithful.`(Rev. 17: 13 & 14)

 

 

Before this climatic event though, the 10 kings of the Islamic confederation destroy the religious system. They have no more use for it as they desire that all peoples worship their Messiah, the Anti-Christ. Thus all buildings, infrastructure & people leading this religious system are destroyed. 

 

`And the 10 horns will hate the prostitute, make her desolate, & naked, eat her flesh, & burn her with fire. For God has put it into their hearts to fulfil His purpose,  to be of one mind, & to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled.`(Rev. 17: 16 & 17)

 

 

 Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

 

Q. So what do you see in Rev. 17 & 18 as the details of the judgments of the Son?

                       

I see that the city of Babylon will not only be the centre of man`s Religious System, which gets destroyed, but also the centre of commerce & finance – the Global Economy.  We are given a picture of this aspect of the city of Babylon. It is called a `prison` & `a habitation of demons.` What a terrifying prospect for those who worship the `beast.`

 

 

 `And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth.` (Rev. 17: 18)

 

The Lord with `great authority`  & `glory.`  declares the judgments upon Babylon -`fallen, fallen,` indicating the downfall of the religious & economic aspects of this demonic government.

                                        

 

 `After these things I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, & the earth was illuminated with His glory. And He cried mightily with a loud voice saying, “Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, & has become a habitation of demons, a prison for every foul spirit, & a cage for every unclean & hated bird!`(Rev. 18: 1 & 2)

 

 

This centre of the world`s trading has made the `merchants of the earth` very wealthy. These are the multi-nationals & traders from all over the world. This selfish abundance of trade is a mark of Satan who by his trade has increased his riches & become proud.  (Ez. 28: 5)

 

 `For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, & the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury”  (Rev. 18: 3)

 

 Fornication – Gk. word, `pornos,`  fig. means – idolatry.

 

 

Thus judgment has been pronounced, double for her sins. And a warning goes out for any of God`s people who are in that city, to flee before the coming hand of God in judgment.

 

 `And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, My people, lest you share in her sins, & lest you receive of her plagues, for her sins have reached to heaven, & God has remembered her iniquities. Render to her just as she rendered to you, & repay her double according to her works; in a cup which she has mixed, mix for her double.`(Rev. 18: 4 – 6) 

 

Marilyn.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2015 by Marilyn C

[MorningGlory]

Revelation Chapter 17 (NASB)
⁸  "The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come.
⁹  "Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits,
¹⁰  and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while.
¹¹  "The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction. 

This is not as complicated as it seems in the light of history. It all begins with the King who now is. this would be number 6. This is our anchor point in the sequence of the eight Kings. This historically was Domitian. So now we can make our list of Kings. Note that there is no requirement to start with Augustus - the first  "King." (Emperor) It just says “they are seven Kings.” King number one and two are not important and are only place markers in the list. Nero is important because he is one of the seven.

1. Caligula          Fallen (dead)

2. Claudius         Fallen

3. Nero               Fallen

4. Vespasian      Fallen

5.Titus                Fallen

6. Domitian - the ONE IS "King"

7. Nero      The one who is a member of the seven (#3). The one who was and is not and will come out of the abyss. When he comes he will remain a little while. This was the persecution under Domitian which lasted about three and a half years. 93 to 96AD.

8. Nero + Domitian      The beast that was and is not is also an eighth .

John here is playing on the popular myth of the day that Nero was not really dead but had fled to Parthia and would one day re-cross the Euphrates river and retake the Roman empire.(Redivivus Myth) This myth persisted for over 20 years after his death in 68AD. However there were die-hards who believed that he would be resurrected from the dead long after the 20 years to accomplish this.

So what is Johns simple message in this riddle written to THE FIRST CENTURY CHRISTIANS? It was simple - he was telling them that there was a second persecution (The first was under Nero) coming on the church. He is saying that the evil cruel spirit that controlled Nero was going to come upon Domitian which would cause the second persecution of the Church.. Did this happen historically? Indeed it did.

Here is what history tells us. Domitian was a mild ruler when he took office in 81AD after his brother Titus had died - some say with Domitian's help. In 89AD Saturninus made an attempt to take over Domitian's throne. This failed mainly because the two Legions of troops that Saturninus had enlisted in his cause were unable to assist him in his effort because the river Tiber had thawed unexpectedly that spring so the two legions could not cross to come to his aid. This event caused a radical change in Domitian's character in 89AD for the worst and it was after this that this evil spirit took him over and it wasn't very long before he started killing Christians - in 93AD - according to Will Durant who says that this point in time Domitian's whole personality changed for the worst. It was not just the Christians that he persecuted but there was a general bloodbath of any that he even suspected of being disloyal.

Because of his new paranoia about disloyalty - he wrote laws requiring all subjects of the Empire to stand before a statue of himself and annually declare that "Caesar is Lord is God."  The Christians would not do this "act of loyalty" and so they were martyred. This was a big problem in the Church. But this combined spirit of Nero operating in Domitian could only stay for a little while - 3 1/2 years before Domitian was assassinated. This was the eighth King – Domitian possessed by the evil spirit like that of Nero

Those subjects of the Empire who did sacrifice before a statue of the “King” (read Emperor) were given a legal signed (by the city magistrates) document called a Sybillis that verified that the holder had completed his required oath of allegiance to the emperor and now was a subject of the empire in good standing – for a year. The Sybillis allowed that subject to buy and sell. The Christians did not have a Sybillis because they would not sacrifice before the statue so they could not buy or sell. A major problem for the persecuted Church at the end of the first century. The Christian Encyclopedia lists the number of Martyrs under Nero as 5,000. Under Domitian – 2,000. The greatest number of martyrs was under Diocletian who killed an estimated 450,000 Christians. But Domitian was the one who began this practice of forcing the Christians to perform this Roman Cultic rite generally called “The Imperial Cult.”

How about Chapter 17 from where we left off? This is completely different story. 17:12 begins a new subject. From 17:12 to 18:20 is a historical review of the judgment of God on Rome – it is a review of the great fire of Rome in 64AD. John has a message embedded in his review of history and tells us of a number of things that we and even history does not know. Chapter 18:21 is a passage about the final Judgment of Rome which was fulfilled on 410AD with the invasion of Alaric the Visigoth.

I can cover the fire of Rome if anyone is interested. Nerva succeeded Domitian and cancelled this annual oath of allegiance but it never completely went away. Here is the letter of Pliney to Trajan on the subject of Christians. The persecution under Domitian ended or subsided in 96AD when Domitian was assassinated.

Pliny the Younger was governor of Pontus/Bithynia from 111-113 AD. We have a whole set of exchanges of his letters with the emperor Trajan on a variety of administrative political matters. These two letters are the most famous, in which Pliney encounters Christianity for the first time.

Pliny, Letters 10.96-97

Pliny to the Emperor Trajan

It is my practice, my lord, to refer to you all matters concerning which I am in doubt. For who can better give guidance to my hesitation or inform my ignorance? I have never participated in trials of Christians. I therefore do not know what offenses it is the practice to punish or investigate, and to what extent. And I have been not a little hesitant as to whether there should be any distinction on account of age or no difference between the very young and the more mature; whether pardon is to be granted for repentance, or, if a man has once been a Christian, it does him no good to have ceased to be one; whether the name itself, even without offenses, or only the offenses associated with the name are to be punished.

Meanwhile, in the case of those who were denounced to me as Christians, I have observed the following procedure: I interrogated these as to whether they were Christians; those who confessed I interrogated a second and a third time, threatening them with punishment; those who persisted I ordered executed. For I had no doubt that, whatever the nature of their creed, stubbornness and inflexible obstinacy surely deserve to be punished. There were others possessed of the same folly; but because they were Roman citizens, I signed an order for them to be transferred to Rome.

Soon accusations spread, as usually happens, because of the proceedings going on, and several incidents occurred. An anonymous document was published containing the names of many persons. Those who denied that they were or had been Christians, when they invoked the gods in words dictated by me, offered prayer with incense and wine to your image, which I had ordered to be brought for this purpose together with statues of the gods, and moreover cursed Christ--none of which those who are really Christians, it is said, can be forced to do--these I thought should be discharged. Others named by the informer declared that they were Christians, but then denied it, asserting that they had been but had ceased to be, some three years before, others many years, some as much as twenty-five years. They all worshipped your image and the statues of the gods, and cursed Christ.

They asserted, however, that the sum and substance of their fault or error had been that they were accustomed to meet on a fixed day before dawn and sing responsively a hymn to Christ as to a god, and to bind themselves by oath, not to some crime, but not to commit fraud, theft, or adultery, not falsify their trust, nor to refuse to return a trust when called upon to do so. When this was over, it was their custom to depart and to assemble again to partake of food--but ordinary and innocent food. Even this, they affirmed, they had ceased to do after my edict by which, in accordance with your instructions, I had forbidden political associations. Accordingly, I judged it all the more necessary to find out what the truth was by torturing two female slaves who were called deaconesses. But I discovered nothing else but depraved, excessive superstition.

I therefore postponed the investigation and hastened to consult you. For the matter seemed to me to warrant consulting you, especially because of the number involved. For many persons of every age, every rank, and also of both sexes are and will be endangered. For the contagion of this superstition has spread not only to the cities but also to the villages and farms. But it seems possible to check and cure it. It is certainly quite clear that the temples, which had been almost deserted, have begun to be frequented, that the established religious rites, long neglected, are being resumed, and that from everywhere sacrificial animals are coming, for which until now very few purchasers could be found. Hence it is easy to imagine what a multitude of people can be reformed if an opportunity for repentance is afforded.

Trajan to Pliny

You observed proper procedure, my dear Pliny, in sifting the cases of those who had been denounced to you as Christians. For it is not possible to lay down any general rule to serve as a kind of fixed standard. They are not to be sought out; if they are denounced and proved guilty, they are to be punished, with this reservation, that whoever denies that he is a Christian and really proves it--that is, by worshiping our gods--even though he was under suspicion in the past, shall obtain pardon through repentance. But anonymously posted accusations ought to have no place in any prosecution. For this is both a dangerous kind of precedent and out of keeping with the spirit of our age.

So what is your answer to the OPs question? 

.   

[Marilyn C]

 

 

The Judgment of Economic Babylon.

 

This capital of the world`s economy will boast that it is secure from any financial & commercial difficulty - `will see no sorrow.`  Man thinks that he has finally put together a system that controls everyone on earth by a mark, number or name. (Rev. 13: 16 & 17) But it is God who will judge this demonic system of abuse of power & corruption. 

 

`In the measure that she glorified herself & lived luxuriously, in the same measure give her torment & sorrow;  for she says in her heart, “I sit as queen, & am no widow, & will not see sorrow.” Therefore her plagues will come in one day  – death & mourning & famine.  And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges her.` (Rev. 18: 7 & 8)

 

We are shown all those who profited from this unlawful system. Firstly the Kings, the leaders of the nations mourned over Babylon`s fall.

  

 “And the kings of the earth who committed fornication (idolatry)& lived luxuriously with her will weep & lament for her, when they see the smoke of her burning, standing at a distance for fear of her torment, saying,“ Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! For in one hour your judgment has come.”(Rev. 18: 9 & 10)

 

Next we see the merchants, the traders who sold everything from precious stones to the precious bodies & souls of man. How utterly despicable.

 

`And the merchants of the earth will weep & mourn over her,  for no one buys their merchandise any more: Merchandise of gold & silver, precious stones & pearls, fine linen & purple, silk & scarlet, every kind of citron wood, every kind of object of ivory,

every kind of object of most precious wood, bronze, iron & marble; & cinnamon & incense, fragrant oil & frankincense, wine & oil, fine flour & wheat, cattle & sheep, horses & chariots,  & bodies & souls of men. And the fruit that your soul longed for has gone from you, & all the things which are rich & splendid have gone from you, & you shall find them no more at all.

 

The merchants of these things, who became rich by her, will stand at a distance for fear of her torment, weeping & wailing, & saying, “Alas, alas, that great city that was clothed in fine linen, purple, & scarlet, & adorned with gold & precious stones & pearls! For is one hour such great riches came to nothing”(Rev. 18: 11 - 17)

 

Now we see that the owners of every kind of ship cry out when they see the city of Babylon burning & how quickly it is made desolate.

 

 `And every shipowner, all who travel by sea, stood at a distance & cried out when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, “What is like this great city? And they threw dust on their heads & cried out, weeping & wailing, & saying,  “Alas, alas, that great city, in which all who had ships on the sea, became rich by her wealth! For in one hour she is made desolate.”(Rev. 18: 17 – 19)

 

Here then is the picture of Babylon`s fall. It is a quick & complete work, pulverising & completely destroying that great city of Babylon.

 

 “Rejoice over her, O heaven, & you holy apostles & prophets, for God has avenged you on her!” Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a millstone & threw it into the sea, saying, “Thus with violence the great city Babylon shall be thrown down, & shall not be found any more.`(Rev. 18: 20 & 21)

 

By sorcery & witchcraft it deceived the peoples of the world – `false signs & wonders,`  (Rev. 13: 13 & 14) & shed the blood of prophets & saints. Thus no musicians, or craftsmen or wedding feasts will be celebrated there, for the Lord God has judged it. 

 

 

`The sound of harpists, musicians, flautists, & trumpeters shall not be heard in you anymore. And no craftsman of any craft shall be found in you anymore. And the sound of a millstone shall not be heard in you anymore. And the light of a lamp shall not shine in you anymore. And the voice of bridegroom & bride shall not be heard in you anymore. For your merchants were the great men of the earth for by your sorcery all the nations were deceived. And in her was found the blood of prophets & saints, & of all who were slain on the earth`.(Rev. 18: 22 – 24) 

 

 

Marilyn.

 

 

 

 

 

                                                  

 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2015 by Marilyn C