Pope Francis: Revising the Ten Commandments

[thereselittleflower]

As already said Jeff   there are not 100 in the US who hate the Catholic Church, but there are MiLLIONS who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.

I do not doubt you can find thousands of anti catholic sites which are run by some of those MILLIONS who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.

Numerous sites repeating the same errors do not make the errors suddenly true.

 

 

[Esther4:14]

 

They can say directly "JESUS IS LORD" ,  and they don't have a clue who Jesus is.  They are not allowed by rcc doctrines, published, to serve Jesus - they have to serve the pope and the hierarchy....

 

This just demonstrates how completely people do not understand what they criticize.

This is absolutely, utterly false.

 

 

While, I do think that it is possible for you to speak for yourself.  I would believe you if you said to me that you believed that Jesus is the son of God and he died and rose again for the forgiveness of sins.  However, I find it hard to believe that you are capable of speaking on behalf of the whole Catholic church.  I do not think it is possible for you to definitively say that the whole RCC believes the same as you do, which you continuously try to do.  It would be the same if I tried to speak on behalf of an entire denomination.  It is not something that is possible to do.  There will always be error within the church until the tares are separated from the wheat.  

[thereselittleflower]

 

They can say directly "JESUS IS LORD" ,  and they don't have a clue who Jesus is.  They are not allowed by rcc doctrines, published, to serve Jesus - they have to serve the pope and the hierarchy....

 

This just demonstrates how completely people do not understand what they criticize.

This is absolutely, utterly false.

 

 

While, I do think that it is possible for you to speak for yourself.  I would believe you if you said to me that you believed that Jesus is the son of God and he died and rose again for the forgiveness of sins.  However, I find it hard to believe that you are capable of speaking on behalf of the whole Catholic church.  I do not think it is possible for you to definitively say that the whole RCC believes the same as you do, which you continuously try to do.  It would be the same if I tried to speak on behalf of an entire denomination.  It is not something that is possible to do.  There will always be error within the church until the tares are separated from the wheat.  

I'm not speaking just for myself Esther when I speak about what the Catholic Church teaches or doesn't teach.  The Catholic Church is clear on what She teaches.   This is something I have studied in depth.  However, many people get it wrong.

Now when it comes to what individual Catholics believe, as I've said, cradle catholics are well known for not having been correctly taught the Catholic faith so I would not be surprised to hear all sorts of things, but I will say this.  I have never met a cradle Catholic who could not distinguish between worship due God alone and honor given to others. I have never met a cradle catholic who didn't believe Jesus was their savior.   

How well a person understands the Catholic faith is dependent on how well they were taught the Catholic faith.  As I've said before, from the middle of the last century, catechesis has not been very good.   I was not catechized in the Catholic Church.   I came to my understanding through in depth research.  I have been told by other Catholics who know their Catholic faith that I know it better than 99% of Catholics in the US, which is a very sad thing.

 

 

 

[Esther4:14]

 

They can say directly "JESUS IS LORD" ,  and they don't have a clue who Jesus is.  They are not allowed by rcc doctrines, published, to serve Jesus - they have to serve the pope and the hierarchy....

 

This just demonstrates how completely people do not understand what they criticize.

This is absolutely, utterly false.

 

 

While, I do think that it is possible for you to speak for yourself.  I would believe you if you said to me that you believed that Jesus is the son of God and he died and rose again for the forgiveness of sins.  However, I find it hard to believe that you are capable of speaking on behalf of the whole Catholic church.  I do not think it is possible for you to definitively say that the whole RCC believes the same as you do, which you continuously try to do.  It would be the same if I tried to speak on behalf of an entire denomination.  It is not something that is possible to do.  There will always be error within the church until the tares are separated from the wheat.  

 

I'm not speaking just for myself Esther when I speak about what the Catholic Church teaches or doesn't teach.  The Catholic Church is clear on what She teaches.   This is something I have studied in depth.  However, many people get it wrong.

Now when it comes to what individual Catholics believe, as I've said, cradle catholics are well known for not having been correctly taught the Catholic faith so I would not be surprised to hear all sorts of things, but I will say this.  I have never met a cradle Catholic who could not distinguish between worship due God alone and honor given to others. I have never met a cradle catholic who didn't believe Jesus was their savior.   

How well a person understands the Catholic faith is dependent on how well they were taught the Catholic faith.  As I've said before, from the middle of the last century, catechesis has not been very good.   I was not catechized in the Catholic Church.   I came to my understanding through in depth research.  I have been told by other Catholics who know their Catholic faith that I know it better than 99% of Catholics in the US, which is a very sad thing.

 

 

 

Well this may be true to a certain extent too.  It does appear that you desire to defend the aspects of the Catholic church that motivated you to become a member of that denomination.  However, this still does not suggest that because of the favoritism of some aspects, sometimes you do not seem very willing to look at things which are documented and are errors within this denomination of the body of Christ.  Instead, you suggest that they are only the delusion of the person you are in conversation with as opposed to saying that the teaching representing the Catholic Church is in error because you do not agree with this teaching either.  Instead, you suggest it doesn't exist.  

Edited September 15, 2015 by Esther4:14

[thereselittleflower]

 

They can say directly "JESUS IS LORD" ,  and they don't have a clue who Jesus is.  They are not allowed by rcc doctrines, published, to serve Jesus - they have to serve the pope and the hierarchy....

 

This just demonstrates how completely people do not understand what they criticize.

This is absolutely, utterly false.

 

 

While, I do think that it is possible for you to speak for yourself.  I would believe you if you said to me that you believed that Jesus is the son of God and he died and rose again for the forgiveness of sins.  However, I find it hard to believe that you are capable of speaking on behalf of the whole Catholic church.  I do not think it is possible for you to definitively say that the whole RCC believes the same as you do, which you continuously try to do.  It would be the same if I tried to speak on behalf of an entire denomination.  It is not something that is possible to do.  There will always be error within the church until the tares are separated from the wheat.  

 

I'm not speaking just for myself Esther when I speak about what the Catholic Church teaches or doesn't teach.  The Catholic Church is clear on what She teaches.   This is something I have studied in depth.  However, many people get it wrong.

Now when it comes to what individual Catholics believe, as I've said, cradle catholics are well known for not having been correctly taught the Catholic faith so I would not be surprised to hear all sorts of things, but I will say this.  I have never met a cradle Catholic who could not distinguish between worship due God alone and honor given to others. I have never met a cradle catholic who didn't believe Jesus was their savior.   

How well a person understands the Catholic faith is dependent on how well they were taught the Catholic faith.  As I've said before, from the middle of the last century, catechesis has not been very good.   I was not catechized in the Catholic Church.   I came to my understanding through in depth research.  I have been told by other Catholics who know their Catholic faith that I know it better than 99% of Catholics in the US, which is a very sad thing.

 

 

 

Well this may be true to a certain extent too.  It does appear that you desire to defend the aspects of the Catholic church that motivated you to become a member of that denomination.  However, this still does not suggest that because of the favoritism of some aspects, sometimes you do not seem very willing to look at things which are documented and are errors within this denomination of the body of Christ.  Instead, you suggest that they are only the delusion of the person you are in conversation with as opposed to saying that the teaching representing the Catholic Church is in error because you do not agree with this teaching either.  Instead, you suggest it doesn't exist.  

Actually I honestly and deeply looked at everything that has been called an error in their teaching.  What I learned is what we called errors are usually only errors in our perceptions of what the Catholic Church teaches.  Not actually what She teaches.

The vast majority, in fact 99% of doctrines are also found in protestantism.  To take issue with them in Catholicism is to take issue with them in Protestantism as well.   it's not really a Catholic vs Protestant issue.   It is do we believe this or that issue.    We disagree on some doctrines, but it's not because I am Catholic.   I came to these beliefs before I became Catholic.

I came to my beliefs through careful and prayful study of scripture, history and the ECF's. This is after 30+ years of believing they were pretty much wrong and had  lost their way.

What I suggest is that what you perceive as error is a result of a misunderstanding of what Catholics believe, how they beleive it, and where its place is in the bigger scheme of Catholic doctrines and dogmas.

People who take issue with Catholic teaching have never been able to correctly describe the teaching they have issues with.   They present a distortion of that teaching and if the teaching was the way they presented it, I would have issues with it to. 

If a Catholic tells someone they have distorted view of a teaching, the logical thing to do is to  understand why the  Catholic says this and to find out how their own view of it is distorted.  However, such a response rarely happens.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2015 by thereselittleflower

[Esther4:14]

On 9/15/2015 at 0:31 AM, thereselittleflower said:

On 9/15/2015 at 0:09 AM, Esther4:14 said:

On 9/14/2015 at 11:54 PM, thereselittleflower said:

On 9/14/2015 at 11:41 PM, Esther4:14 said:

On 9/14/2015 at 4:29 PM, thereselittleflower said:

On 9/14/2015 at 9:54 AM, simplejeff said:

 

They can say directly "JESUS IS LORD" ,  and they don't have a clue who Jesus is.  They are not allowed by rcc doctrines, published, to serve Jesus - they have to serve the pope and the hierarchy....

 

This just demonstrates how completely people do not understand what they criticize.

This is absolutely, utterly false.

 

 

While, I do think that it is possible for you to speak for yourself.  I would believe you if you said to me that you believed that Jesus is the son of God and he died and rose again for the forgiveness of sins.  However, I find it hard to believe that you are capable of speaking on behalf of the whole Catholic church.  I do not think it is possible for you to definitively say that the whole RCC believes the same as you do, which you continuously try to do.  It would be the same if I tried to speak on behalf of an entire denomination.  It is not something that is possible to do.  There will always be error within the church until the tares are separated from the wheat.  

 

I'm not speaking just for myself Esther when I speak about what the Catholic Church teaches or doesn't teach.  The Catholic Church is clear on what She teaches.   This is something I have studied in depth.  However, many people get it wrong.

Now when it comes to what individual Catholics believe, as I've said, cradle catholics are well known for not having been correctly taught the Catholic faith so I would not be surprised to hear all sorts of things, but I will say this.  I have never met a cradle Catholic who could not distinguish between worship due God alone and honor given to others. I have never met a cradle catholic who didn't believe Jesus was their savior.   

How well a person understands the Catholic faith is dependent on how well they were taught the Catholic faith.  As I've said before, from the middle of the last century, catechesis has not been very good.   I was not catechized in the Catholic Church.   I came to my understanding through in depth research.  I have been told by other Catholics who know their Catholic faith that I know it better than 99% of Catholics in the US, which is a very sad thing.

 

 

 

Well this may be true to a certain extent too.  It does appear that you desire to defend the aspects of the Catholic church that motivated you to become a member of that denomination.  However, this still does not suggest that because of the favoritism of some aspects, sometimes you do not seem very willing to look at things which are documented and are errors within this denomination of the body of Christ.  Instead, you suggest that they are only the delusion of the person you are in conversation with as opposed to saying that the teaching representing the Catholic Church is in error because you do not agree with this teaching either.  Instead, you suggest it doesn't exist.  

Actually I honestly and deeply looked at everything that has been called an error in their teaching.  What I learned is what we called errors were only errors in our perceptions of what the Catholic Church teaches.  Not actually what She teaches.

The vast majority, in fact 99% of doctrines are also found in protestantism.  To take issue with them in Catholicism is to take issue with them in Protestantism as well.   it's not really a Catholic vs Protestant issue.   It is do we believe this or that issue.    We disagree on some doctrines, but it's not because I am Catholic.   I came to these beliefs before I became Catholic.

I came to my beliefs through careful study of scripture, history and the ECF's.

What I suggest is that what you perceive as error is a result of a misunderstanding of what Catholics believe, how they beleive it, and where its place is in the bigger scheme of Catholic doctrines and dogmas.

People who take issue with Catholic teaching have never been able to correctly describe the teaching they have issues with.   They present a distortion of that teaching and if the teaching was the way they presented it, I would have issues with it to. 

If a Catholic tells someone they have distorted view of a teaching, the logical thing to do is to  understand why the  Catholic says this and to find out how their own view of it is distorted.  However, such a response rarely happens.

 

 

 

 

Okay then, on June 25, 2014, Pope Francis is on videotape saying verbatim, "There are those who believe you can have a personal, direct, and immediate relationship with Jesus Christ outside the communion and mediation of the church.  These temptations are dangerous and harmful.  They are, in the words of the great Pope Paul VI, 'absurd dichotomies."  Now, these are the direct words that he used before a large audience.

Now, I realize that what he is saying is a subtle error because the only real issue I have with what he is saying is the part about the necessity of the mediation of the church.  Most people agree with the benefit of communion with believers.  There is no disagreement with this, but he works in that the it is dangerous to consider yourself as having a relationship with Jesus that is not dependent on the mediation of the church; and, NO, I do not need mediation from the church.  I share the gifts of the Spirit that He has given me and participate in communion with the body of Christ as a free agent.  The teaching of Ignatius may have spoke on blind authority to a Bishop, but the apostles never talked about blindly following authority or requiring mediation from the church.  John said, "do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God," (1 John 4:1).  To me, requiring mediation and overlooking the responsibility of testing the spirits, is a hop, skip, and jump away from being returning to a oppressive legalistic setting.   

So, do you see error in what Pope Francis is saying?  

 

Edited May 6, 2017 by OneLight
Removed YouTube Link

[thereselittleflower]

On 9/15/2015 at 1:00 AM, Esther4:14 said:

On 9/15/2015 at 0:31 AM, thereselittleflower said:

On 9/15/2015 at 0:09 AM, Esther4:14 said:

On 9/14/2015 at 11:54 PM, thereselittleflower said:

On 9/14/2015 at 11:41 PM, Esther4:14 said:

On 9/14/2015 at 4:29 PM, thereselittleflower said:

On 9/14/2015 at 9:54 AM, simplejeff said:

 

They can say directly "JESUS IS LORD" ,  and they don't have a clue who Jesus is.  They are not allowed by rcc doctrines, published, to serve Jesus - they have to serve the pope and the hierarchy....

 

This just demonstrates how completely people do not understand what they criticize.

This is absolutely, utterly false.

 

 

While, I do think that it is possible for you to speak for yourself.  I would believe you if you said to me that you believed that Jesus is the son of God and he died and rose again for the forgiveness of sins.  However, I find it hard to believe that you are capable of speaking on behalf of the whole Catholic church.  I do not think it is possible for you to definitively say that the whole RCC believes the same as you do, which you continuously try to do.  It would be the same if I tried to speak on behalf of an entire denomination.  It is not something that is possible to do.  There will always be error within the church until the tares are separated from the wheat.  

 

I'm not speaking just for myself Esther when I speak about what the Catholic Church teaches or doesn't teach.  The Catholic Church is clear on what She teaches.   This is something I have studied in depth.  However, many people get it wrong.

Now when it comes to what individual Catholics believe, as I've said, cradle catholics are well known for not having been correctly taught the Catholic faith so I would not be surprised to hear all sorts of things, but I will say this.  I have never met a cradle Catholic who could not distinguish between worship due God alone and honor given to others. I have never met a cradle catholic who didn't believe Jesus was their savior.   

How well a person understands the Catholic faith is dependent on how well they were taught the Catholic faith.  As I've said before, from the middle of the last century, catechesis has not been very good.   I was not catechized in the Catholic Church.   I came to my understanding through in depth research.  I have been told by other Catholics who know their Catholic faith that I know it better than 99% of Catholics in the US, which is a very sad thing.

 

 

 

Well this may be true to a certain extent too.  It does appear that you desire to defend the aspects of the Catholic church that motivated you to become a member of that denomination.  However, this still does not suggest that because of the favoritism of some aspects, sometimes you do not seem very willing to look at things which are documented and are errors within this denomination of the body of Christ.  Instead, you suggest that they are only the delusion of the person you are in conversation with as opposed to saying that the teaching representing the Catholic Church is in error because you do not agree with this teaching either.  Instead, you suggest it doesn't exist.  

Actually I honestly and deeply looked at everything that has been called an error in their teaching.  What I learned is what we called errors were only errors in our perceptions of what the Catholic Church teaches.  Not actually what She teaches.

The vast majority, in fact 99% of doctrines are also found in protestantism.  To take issue with them in Catholicism is to take issue with them in Protestantism as well.   it's not really a Catholic vs Protestant issue.   It is do we believe this or that issue.    We disagree on some doctrines, but it's not because I am Catholic.   I came to these beliefs before I became Catholic.

I came to my beliefs through careful study of scripture, history and the ECF's.

What I suggest is that what you perceive as error is a result of a misunderstanding of what Catholics believe, how they beleive it, and where its place is in the bigger scheme of Catholic doctrines and dogmas.

People who take issue with Catholic teaching have never been able to correctly describe the teaching they have issues with.   They present a distortion of that teaching and if the teaching was the way they presented it, I would have issues with it to. 

If a Catholic tells someone they have distorted view of a teaching, the logical thing to do is to  understand why the  Catholic says this and to find out how their own view of it is distorted.  However, such a response rarely happens.

 

 

 

 

Okay then, on June 25, 2014, Pope Francis is on videotape saying verbatim, "There are those who believe you can have a personal, direct, and immediate relationship with Jesus Christ outside the communion and mediation of the church.  These temptations are dangerous and harmful.  They are, in the words of the great Pope Paul VI, 'absurd dichotomies."  Now, these are the direct words that he used before a large audience. 

Now, I realize that what he is saying is a subtle error because the only real issue I have with what he is saying is the part about the necessity of the mediation of the church.  Most people agree with the benefit of communion with believers.  There is no disagreement with this, but he works in that the it is dangerous to consider yourself as having a relationship with Jesus that is not dependent on the mediation of the church; and, NO, I do not need mediation from the church.  I share the gifts of the Spirit that He has given me and participate in communion with the body of Christ as a free agent.  The teaching of Ignatius may have spoke on blind authority to a Bishop, but the apostles never talked about blindly following authority or requiring mediation from the church.  John said, "do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God," (1 John 4:1).  To me, requiring mediation and overlooking the responsibility of testing the spirits, is a hop, skip, and jump away from being returning to a oppressive legalistic setting.   

So, do you see error in what Pope Francis is saying?  

 

First, one must dissuade themselves of the notion that everything the Pope says is infallible or Church teaching.   The Pope is not personally infallible.  He can make errors in speaking, misspeak, not be clear, etc just as we all can.   I am not saying he mispoke, but we must understand this was a General Audience and not official Magesterial Proclamation.

Keep in mind that in Catholic teaching, all believers are united to the one and same Church, whether they are formally members of the Catholic Church or not.

Next we need to look at the context, for words stripped of their context can be made to appear to say anything.  Here is the fuller context of what he said:

3. We are able to live this journey not only because of others, but together with others. In the Church there is no “do it yourself”, there are no “free agents”. How many times did Pope Benedict “describe the Church as an ecclesial ‘we’”! At times one hears someone say: “I believe in God, I believe in Jesus, but I don’t care about the Church...”. How many times have we heard this? And this is not good. There are those who believe they can maintain a personal, direct and immediate relationship with Jesus Christ outside the communion and the mediation of the Church. These are dangerous and harmful temptations. These are, as the great Paul VI said, absurd dichotomies. It is true that walking together is challenging, and at times can be tiring: it can happen that some brother or some sister creates difficulties, or shocks us.... But the Lord entrusted his message of salvation to a few human beings, to us all, to a few witnesses; and it is in our brothers and in our sisters, with their gifts and limitations, that he comes to meet us and make himself known. And this is what it means to belong to the Church. Remember this well: to be Christian means belonging to the Church. The first name is “Christian”, the last name is “belonging to the Church”.

What I see isn't error, but a failure to understand what he said, understanding certain words in ways he did not intend them to be understood.  It seems to me that you understood him to imply one must be a formal member of the Catholic Church.  

That is not what he was saying.

He could have said  "the body of Christ" instead of "Church" and convey the same idea, then you would not have seen it as saying one must be a formal member of the Body of Christ.    He is saying christianity is not a "go it alone" faith - it is a faith in communion with other believers in the body of Christ, we are one together.   This is even more clear in the part that follows what you quoted - he even defines what he means by "the Church":

 It is true that walking together is challenging, and at times can be tiring: it can happen that some brother or some sister creates difficulties, or shocks us.... But the Lord entrusted his message of salvation to a few human beings, to us all, to a few witnesses; and it is in our brothers and in our sisters, with their gifts and limitations, that he comes to meet us and make himself known. And this is what it means to belong to the Church. 

 

In regards to the mediation of the Church - when we pray for each other we become mediators. We stand in the middle for another and God.   We need each other.   That is what he is saying.  When you share the gifts of the Spirit you are mediating  - you are standing in the middle between the Holy Spirit and another, being the avenue through which the gift is shared with them.  A mediator is simply one who stands in the middle.   This is how the Body of Christ works.  This is how the Church works.  The Church is a Church of mediation among the members.  This is the mediation of the Church.

In his final words this is made even more clear:

Dear friends, let us ask the Lord ... for the grace never to fall into the temptation of thinking we can make it without the others, that we can get along without the Church, that we can save ourselves on our own, of being Christians from the laboratory. On the contrary, you cannot love God without loving your brothers, you cannot love God outside of the Church; you cannot be in communion with God without being so in the Church, and we cannot be good Christians if we are not together with those who seek to follow the Lord Jesus, as one single people, one single body, and this is the Church. Thank you.

 

This is the context of his words.

 

 

 

 

[Guest shiloh357]

 

You don't think Catholics have faith in Jesus Christ?

No, I don't.   They put more faith in praying to saints, baptism, sacraments, self-piety, Mary and the RCC itself than they do in Jesus. 

This proves how very poorly you understand what you criticize.  For those who actually understand what the Catholic Church teaches, nothing could be further from the Truth.   Jesus is at the very center of their faith.

 

 

 

 

You don't think Catholics have faith in Jesus Christ?

No, I don't.   They put more faith in praying to saints, baptism, sacraments, self-piety, Mary and the RCC itself than they do in Jesus. 

So, every Catholic is the same ? Even in my ignorance of the RCC I would find that hard to believe.

They  make no secret of it.  A cradle to grave Catholic is taught to trust in self-piety and works in addition to faith in order to obtain salvation.   In RCC theology, salvation is not a free gift of God's grace.  For them, salvation is something based on how good you are, how well you managed to purify yourself.   Essentially, you don't really know until after you die if you are saved, in RCC theology.    It isn't about Jesus, in the RCC  it is about salvation coming through personal efforts and personal merit.

People really should not criticize what they do not understand.

In RCC theology, salvation is not a free gift of God's grace.

This is also utterly false.

 It isn't about Jesus, in the RCC 

This is also utterly false.

The rest presents a distorted picture of what the Catholic Church teaches.

 

 

 

 

You don't think Catholics have faith in Jesus Christ?

No, I don't.   They put more faith in praying to saints, baptism, sacraments, self-piety, Mary and the RCC itself than they do in Jesus. 

 

TY s.  I really appreciate you answering my questions.

When did you first come to the realization that Catholics don't have faith in Jesus Christ?

 

When Catholics told me how they viewed salvation.

 

There's the problem right there Shiloh.

The source of your information.

 

You've formed your opinions of what the Catholic Church teaches from those unqualified to tell you what the Catholic Church teaches because they never properly understood what the Catholic Church teaches because they were never properly catechized in the Catholic Church.

I've explained how poorly catechized Catholics were since the middle of the last century to you before.

 

Until you are willing to throw out what you think you know about the Catholic Church and learn from someone who actually properly understands what the Catholic Church teaches, you will be forever trapped a false view of this alternate "Catholic Church" you've created for yourself.

 

 

Some Catholics get saved, but they have to leave the RCC to do it.  There are countless testimonies of Catholics who admit they were blinded to the truth about salvation.   Their former priests and Jesuits who have revealed what is really going on the higher levels of leadership in Rome and just how corrupt it really is.

And these so called  "countless testimonies" are those of the ill-informed, and unqualified to speak to what the Catholic Church actually teaches.

So all you have for the basis of your understanding of what the Catholic Church teaches is wrong, distorted information based on ill-informed testimonies.

 

So your criticisms are based on distorted and false information.

 

 

People should not criticize what they do not properly understand, and this is a subject you are demonstrating you do not properly understand.

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, you are the putting out lies and misinformation. All you have is lies and misinformation.  I have learned that you can't be trusted.    

 

I do love you Shiloh.   I hope one day you will be able to understand the sources of your information on Catholicism have lead you to build a fictional Catholic Church to attack. Cradle Catholics generally, and unfortunately, tend to be the worst source for correct information about what the Catholic Church teaches. If the Catholic Church were really how you believe it to be, I would hate it too and run faster from it than you could.

 

As has been wisely said:

 

“There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”

― Fulton J. Sheen

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, I have been going off of what you have said, which is no different than the people whom you claim are not properly instructed about what Catholics believe.  You have been confirming, on this board, the very things you claim is misinformation.    You argue that faith alone is not all that is needed for salvation and you have argued that baptism and good works (purifying one's self) is also necessary for salvation.            

So you really talk out both sides of your mouth and are not to be trusted. You are a neo-pagan who simply converted to another form of paganism. 

[thereselittleflower]

 

 

TY s.  I really appreciate you answering my questions.

When did you first come to the realization that Catholics don't have faith in Jesus Christ?

 

When Catholics told me how they viewed salvation.

 

There's the problem right there Shiloh.

The source of your information.

 

You've formed your opinions of what the Catholic Church teaches from those unqualified to tell you what the Catholic Church teaches because they never properly understood what the Catholic Church teaches because they were never properly catechized in the Catholic Church.

I've explained how poorly catechized Catholics were since the middle of the last century to you before.

 

Until you are willing to throw out what you think you know about the Catholic Church and learn from someone who actually properly understands what the Catholic Church teaches, you will be forever trapped a false view of this alternate "Catholic Church" you've created for yourself.

 

 

Some Catholics get saved, but they have to leave the RCC to do it.  There are countless testimonies of Catholics who admit they were blinded to the truth about salvation.   Their former priests and Jesuits who have revealed what is really going on the higher levels of leadership in Rome and just how corrupt it really is.

And these so called  "countless testimonies" are those of the ill-informed, and unqualified to speak to what the Catholic Church actually teaches.

So all you have for the basis of your understanding of what the Catholic Church teaches is wrong, distorted information based on ill-informed testimonies.

 

So your criticisms are based on distorted and false information.

 

 

People should not criticize what they do not properly understand, and this is a subject you are demonstrating you do not properly understand.

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, you are the putting out lies and misinformation. All you have is lies and misinformation.  I have learned that you can't be trusted.    

 

I do love you Shiloh.   I hope one day you will be able to understand the sources of your information on Catholicism have lead you to build a fictional Catholic Church to attack. Cradle Catholics generally, and unfortunately, tend to be the worst source for correct information about what the Catholic Church teaches. If the Catholic Church were really how you believe it to be, I would hate it too and run faster from it than you could.

 

As has been wisely said:

 

“There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”

― Fulton J. Sheen

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, I have been going off of what you have said, which is no different than the people whom you claim are not properly instructed about what Catholics believe.  You have been confirming, on this board, the very things you claim is misinformation.    You argue that faith alone is not all that is needed for salvation and you have argued that baptism and good works (purifying one's self) is also necessary for salvation.            

So you really talk out both sides of your mouth and are not to be trusted. You are a neo-pagan who simply converted to another form of paganism. 

I'm sorry Shiloh, but I have not shared enough with you for you to have enough information to go off of what I say.     

Until you're ready to actually listen rather than tell others what they mean by the words they use and say,and judge them according to some fictional construct, there is no way to help you see where you have been wrong.

 

 

Edited September 15, 2015 by thereselittleflower

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

TY s.  I really appreciate you answering my questions.

When did you first come to the realization that Catholics don't have faith in Jesus Christ?

 

When Catholics told me how they viewed salvation.

 

There's the problem right there Shiloh.

The source of your information.

 

You've formed your opinions of what the Catholic Church teaches from those unqualified to tell you what the Catholic Church teaches because they never properly understood what the Catholic Church teaches because they were never properly catechized in the Catholic Church.

I've explained how poorly catechized Catholics were since the middle of the last century to you before.

 

Until you are willing to throw out what you think you know about the Catholic Church and learn from someone who actually properly understands what the Catholic Church teaches, you will be forever trapped a false view of this alternate "Catholic Church" you've created for yourself.

 

 

Some Catholics get saved, but they have to leave the RCC to do it.  There are countless testimonies of Catholics who admit they were blinded to the truth about salvation.   Their former priests and Jesuits who have revealed what is really going on the higher levels of leadership in Rome and just how corrupt it really is.

And these so called  "countless testimonies" are those of the ill-informed, and unqualified to speak to what the Catholic Church actually teaches.

So all you have for the basis of your understanding of what the Catholic Church teaches is wrong, distorted information based on ill-informed testimonies.

 

So your criticisms are based on distorted and false information.

 

 

People should not criticize what they do not properly understand, and this is a subject you are demonstrating you do not properly understand.

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, you are the putting out lies and misinformation. All you have is lies and misinformation.  I have learned that you can't be trusted.    

 

I do love you Shiloh.   I hope one day you will be able to understand the sources of your information on Catholicism have lead you to build a fictional Catholic Church to attack. Cradle Catholics generally, and unfortunately, tend to be the worst source for correct information about what the Catholic Church teaches. If the Catholic Church were really how you believe it to be, I would hate it too and run faster from it than you could.

 

As has been wisely said:

 

“There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”

― Fulton J. Sheen

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, I have been going off of what you have said, which is no different than the people whom you claim are not properly instructed about what Catholics believe.  You have been confirming, on this board, the very things you claim is misinformation.    You argue that faith alone is not all that is needed for salvation and you have argued that baptism and good works (purifying one's self) is also necessary for salvation.            

So you really talk out both sides of your mouth and are not to be trusted. You are a neo-pagan who simply converted to another form of paganism. 

I'm sorry Shiloh, but I have not shared enough with you for you to have enough information to go off of what I say.     

Until you're ready to actually listen rather than tell others what they mean by the words they use and say,and judge them according to some fictional construct, there is no way to help you see where you have been wrong.

 

 

You have shared enough for me to know that you don't believe the true Gospel of salvation by faith and you have shared enough for me to know that you believe works are part of what is required of salvation.   You have shared enough for me to know and affirm that Catholicism isn't Christianity and that Roman Catholics are not authentic followers of Jesus and that Roman Catholicism is of the devil and is the road to Hell.