Biblical Calculations 1. (70 X 7)

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, ARGOSY said:

Hi Marilyn

I see the 70 sevens as being 490 Jewish years. These 490 years start with the decree of Artaxerxes issued to the administrators around autumn 458 BC. 483 years later, in autumn of 26 AD Jesus begins His ministry. At this moment he confirms God's promise to send a Messiah, continuously confirming this for 3.5 years of His ministry.  Then at 486.5 years, Jesus is the final sacrificial lamb, putting an end to sacrifice and offering.

This leaves just 3.5 Jewish years left. These 3.5 years starts with the fall of Satan (Rev 12) when the victory of the gospel causes Satan to fall, and the woman (Israel) is protected.  Romans 11:25 could be associated with this victory of the gospel, because the fullness of the nations come in, which means Jews are then open to the gospel.

Daniel 12 can be interpreted as describing this gap in the 490 year period:   “From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days

That word "time" can be seen as "age".  Interpreting this verse, we can infer that from the Gentile age starting with the abolished sacrifices (CRUCIFIXION) and ending with the setting up of the abomination, there are 3.5 Jewish years left.

 

Hi Argosy,

Thank you for your contribution. Glad you are looking at the `1,290` days. You may want to discuss this on the other thread `Biblical Calculations 2. (the final 7 years).

As you can see from my time line for unworthydude, I believe the 69 sevens is exactly from the `command` to Palm Sunday, Messiah the Prince. This is a most important event. Israel receives their king, Messiah the Prince but then rejects Him. They didn`t just reject a man from Galilee, but they actually rejected the one whom they received as King - "We have no king but Caesar!" This God is holding them accountable to.

 

Marilyn.

 

 

[Ezra]

On 23/01/2016 at 0:13 AM, Marilyn C said:

I would like to discuss God`s Biblical calculations in relation to the `end of the times of the Gentiles` ruling the world & His purpose for Israel.  

I believe it would be more appropriate to use the term "God's perfect timeline" to establish "everlasting righteousness" on earth.  Please note that Daniel 9:24 takes us well past the Millennium (so it is not just about the times of the Gentiles):

Seventy weeks [490 years] are determined upon thy people (Israel] and upon thy holy city [Jerusalem],

(1) to finish the transgression – to stop the work of Satan through the Antichrist

(2) to make an end of sins – to bring sinning on earth to an end

(3) to make reconciliation for iniquity – through the Cross of Christ and His shed blood of the New Covenant

(4) to bring in everlasting righteousness – to make universal righteousness on earth a reality for eternity

(5) to seal up the vision and prophecy – to fulfil all Scripture, so that there is no further need for visions and prophecies

(6) to anoint the most Holy – to set up a true Holy of Holies in Jerusalem for eternity.

[ARGOSY]

6 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Argosy,

Thank you for your contribution. Glad you are looking at the `1,290` days. You may want to discuss this on the other thread `Biblical Calculations 2. (the final 7 years).

As you can see from my time line for unworthydude, I believe the 69 sevens is exactly from the `command` to Palm Sunday, Messiah the Prince. This is a most important event. Israel receives their king, Messiah the Prince but then rejects Him. They didn`t just reject a man from Galilee, but they actually rejected the one whom they received as King - "We have no king but Caesar!" This God is holding them accountable to.

 

Marilyn.

 

 

Hi Marilyn,

I don't think your view is very logical at all, Jesus appeared publicly as Messiah to Israel when he was baptized in the Jordan. So your claim that the coming of the Messiah occurred during the triumphal entry is incorrect, Jesus appeared as Messiah to Israel 3.5 years earlier than that. John acknowledged this and so did Jesus confirm this. Then at Nazareth, Jesus again publicly claimed to be the Messiah. At Nazareth, using the book Isaiah, Jesus showed that he was a fulfilment of God's promise to send a Messiah.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Ezra,

 

Thank you for your comments & highlighting God`s purpose for the 70 X 7.  However I believe you have strayed away from God`s designated purpose & thus I don`t see the points the same as you do, Ezra.

 

As regards the `title,` you said -

 

 

Quote

`I believe it would be more appropriate to use the term "God's perfect timeline" to establish "everlasting righteousness" on earth. Please note that Daniel 9:24 takes us well past the Millennium (so it is not just about the times of the Gentiles):`

 

I actually said -

 

Quote

`I would like to discuss God`s Biblical calculations in relation to the `end of the times of the Gentiles` ruling the world & His purpose for Israel.`

 

And yes God does have a `perfect timeline,` however we need to make calculations, I believe, regarding the numbers God has in His word, the Bible. Thus the title – Biblical Calculations 1, 2, 3. Hope that is clearer.

 

 

Now let`s look at what God actually said -

`Seventy weeks [490 years] are determined upon thy people (Israel] and upon thy holy city [Jerusalem], ..` (Dan. 9: 24)

Here we see God`s focus, His purpose is – Israel & Jerusalem. We do not see God saying that He was focusing upon Satan, Gentiles or nations sinning, but `thy people (Israel] and upon thy holy city [Jerusalem], ` So focussing on Israel & Jerusalem we can understand what God is saying –

 

        1. to finish the transgression –  What `transgression` (no `s`) did Israel do? Yes, Israel rebelled against God, He divorced them. Thus it is Israel`s National rebellion that will finish. This we know will finish when God`s Holy Spirit enlightens Israel`s eyes to their Messiah, & they repent & receive Him.

`I will pour on the house of David & on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace & supplication; then they will look on Me whom they have pierced; they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, & grieve for him as one grieves for a first-born.`(Zech. 12: 10)

 

      2. to make an end of sins –  Notice the `s.` Thus it relates to the people of Israel`s individual sins against God`s law. This we know will change when He writes it upon their heart.

`I will give you (Israel) a new heart & put a new spirit within you; & I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh & give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you & cause you to walk in My statues, & you will keep My judgments & do them. Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, & I will be your God.` (Ez. 36: 26 – 28)

 

   3. to make atonement for iniquity –  Heb. `kaphar` meaning atonement for moral crime. Christ`s shed His blood & His holy life – He lived in the land of Israel & He never sinned.

`If they confess their iniquity ....then I will remember My Covenant ....` (Lev. 26: 40 – 42)

 

    4. to bring in everlasting righteousness –  Righteousness, Heb. word `tsedeq` meaning the right (nat. moral or legal) - that which is altogether just. Thus when Christ returns to earth & sets up Israel over the nations it will be a just rule –

`Now it shall come to pass in the latter days that the mountain of the Lord`s house shall be established on the top of the mountains, & shall be exalted above the hills; & peoples shall flow to it. Many nations shall come & say, “Come, & let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; He will teach us His ways. And we shall walk in His paths.” For out of Zion the law shall go forth & the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. He shall judge between many peoples,..` (Micah 4: 1 – 3)

 

     5. to seal up the vision and prophecy – This relates to the visions & prophecies in Daniel. God is not speaking beyond that.

`But you Daniel, shut up the words & seal the book until the time of the end;...` (Dan. 12: 4)

 

    6. to anoint the most Holy – The most Holy is the sanctuary in the Temple in Jerusalem which was desecrated. It will be anointed so that God, by His Spirit can dwell there.

`Behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the east. His voice was like the sound of many waters; & the earth shone with His glory......& the glory of the Lord came into the temple by way of the gate which faces east. The Spirit lifted me up & brought me into the inner court; & behold, the glory of the Lord filled the temple.` (Ez. 43: 2 – 5)

 

So that is how I see those 6 points in relation to what God has said -

`Seventy weeks [490 years] are determined upon thy people (Israel] and upon thy holy city [Jerusalem], ..` (Dan. 9: 24)

 

Marilyn.

 

 

 

               

Edited January 26, 2016 by Marilyn C

[Marilyn C]

55 minutes ago, ARGOSY said:

Hi Marilyn,

I don't think your view is very logical at all, Jesus appeared publicly as Messiah to Israel when he was baptized in the Jordan. So your claim that the coming of the Messiah occurred during the triumphal entry is incorrect, Jesus appeared as Messiah to Israel 3.5 years earlier than that. John acknowledged this and so did Jesus confirm this. Then at Nazareth, Jesus again publicly claimed to be the Messiah. At Nazareth, using the book Isaiah, Jesus showed that he was a fulfilment of God's promise to send a Messiah.

Hi Argosy,

Yes Jesus appeared publically at the river Jordan but He was never acclaimed as Messiah prior to Palm Sunday by the people. Remember ever Peter had difficulty realising who Jesus was. And John the Baptist also, etc.  And yes Jesus repeatedly did miracles, spoke scripture, cast out demons, had authority over them, commanded the elements, etc etc, however He was never acclaimed as Israel`s Messiah, King, until Palm Sunday.

Marilyn.

 

 

[ARGOSY]

33 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Argosy,

Yes Jesus appeared publically at the river Jordan but He was never acclaimed as Messiah prior to Palm Sunday by the people. Remember ever Peter had difficulty realising who Jesus was. And John the Baptist also, etc.  And yes Jesus repeatedly did miracles, spoke scripture, cast out demons, had authority over them, commanded the elements, etc etc, however He was never acclaimed as Israel`s Messiah, King, until Palm Sunday.

Marilyn.

 

 

Hi Marilyn,

Your view is very common, but you are incorrect. Yes palm Sunday was a more dramatic acknowledgment of Jesus being the Messiah,  but Daniel 9 does not refer to any acknowledgement, it refers to the "coming" of the anointed one."  Jesus was anointed in the river Jordan, and started his ministry to Israel under the anointing from then.

^{Matthew 5: 14} But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?¹⁵ And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.¹⁶ And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: ¹⁷ And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

After this Jesus brought salvation to the Jews, setting them free, forgiving sins, and using his anointing to heal and perform miracles. To claim that the coming of the anointed one occurred only at the triumphal entry does not make sense.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Argosy,

I hear what you are saying about the `anointed` one. However I think we both need to look a bit more carefully at what Daniel, Zechariah & Luke are saying & showing.

`….rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince, there shall be 62 weeks, (sevens)` (Dan. 9: 25)

 

This is prophesied in more detail by Zechariah.

 

`Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold your King is coming to you; He is just & having salvation, lowly & riding on a donkey, a colt, the foal of a donkey.` (Zechariah 9: 9)

 

Then on `Palm Sunday`  (Mar. 30, 33 AD), the Messiah appears as Prince riding on a colt.

 

 

`And it came to pass, ….that He (Jesus) sent two disciples, saying, “Go into the village opposite you, where as you enter, you will find a colt tied,….Then they brought him to Jesus. And they threw their own garments on the colt, & they set Jesus on him. And as He went, they spread their clothes on the road.

 

Then, as He was now drawing near the descent of the Mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice & praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works they had seen, saying –

 

“Blessed is the King who comes in the name of the Lord!...` (Luke 19: 28 – 38)

 

Thus we see Jesus riding into Jerusalem amid great acclamations by the multitude. They were spreading their clothes before Him as one does to a conqueror, a captain of an army. This is the picture we are shown – Jesus as the commander riding into Jerusalem; however he is on a colt not a stallion. He is meek & lowly, not proud & arrogant. He will conquer by laying down His life not by warring against the Romans.

 

Prince – Heb. word `nagid,` meaning a commander, captain, chief.

 

So I believe that clears up why Daniel says, `Messiah the Prince.` He is saying, by the Holy Spirit, that Messiah will appear as a commander (`nagid) & Zechariah tells us that when He does, it will be on a colt, (not  stallion as other commanders do.) This thus gives us the correct timing.

 

 

Marilyn.  

 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2016 by Marilyn C

[ARGOSY]

7 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Argosy,

I hear what you are saying about the `anointed` one. However I think we both need to look a bit more carefully at what Daniel, Zechariah & Luke are saying & showing.

`….rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince, there shall be 62 weeks, (sevens)` (Dan. 9: 25)

 

This is prophesied in more detail by Zechariah.

 

`Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold your King is coming to you; He is just & having salvation, lowly & riding on a donkey, a colt, the foal of a donkey.` (Zechariah 9: 9)

 

Then on `Palm Sunday`  (Mar. 30, 33 AD), the Messiah appears as Prince riding on a colt.

 

 

`And it came to pass, ….that He (Jesus) sent two disciples, saying, “Go into the village opposite you, where as you enter, you will find a colt tied,….Then they brought him to Jesus. And they threw their own garments on the colt, & they set Jesus on him. And as He went, they spread their clothes on the road.

 

Then, as He was now drawing near the descent of the Mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice & praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works they had seen, saying –

 

“Blessed is the King who comes in the name of the Lord!...` (Luke 19: 28 – 38)

 

Thus we see Jesus riding into Jerusalem amid great acclamations by the multitude. They were spreading their clothes before Him as one does to a conqueror, a captain of an army. This is the picture we are shown – Jesus as the commander riding into Jerusalem; however he is on a colt not a stallion. He is meek & lowly, not proud & arrogant. He will conquer by laying down His life not by warring against the Romans.

 

Prince – Heb. word `nagid,` meaning a commander, captain, chief.

 

So I believe that clears up why Daniel says, `Messiah the Prince.` He is saying, by the Holy Spirit, that Messiah will appear as a commander (`nagid) & Zechariah tells us that when He does, it will be on a colt, (not  stallion as other commanders do.) This thus gives us the correct timing.

 

 

Marilyn.  

 

 

 

Hi Marilyn, you make a good point and express it well.

 

However a king does not become a king when he is recognised as such, a king becomes a king when he gains control.  Jesus gained power under the anointing, and expressed his Messianic/Kingship role from the moment of his baptism. This is when he had power over death, power over the weather, power over the elements, and power to heal and save Israel. He expressed this power continually. So he became king/Messiah/anointed at the River Jordan, not at Palm Sunday. The coming of the prince/anointed one occurred 3.5 years earlier than you claim. 

[Marilyn C]

22 hours ago, ARGOSY said:

Hi Marilyn, you make a good point and express it well.

 

However a king does not become a king when he is recognised as such, a king becomes a king when he gains control.  Jesus gained power under the anointing, and expressed his Messianic/Kingship role from the moment of his baptism. This is when he had power over death, power over the weather, power over the elements, and power to heal and save Israel. He expressed this power continually. So he became king/Messiah/anointed at the River Jordan, not at Palm Sunday. The coming of the prince/anointed one occurred 3.5 years earlier than you claim. 

Hi Argosy,

Thank you for your compliment. I do hear what you are saying that Jesus was/is king even though not recognised. We know that actually He was born a king. However what we are looking at is the `appearing` of Jesus, the Messiah, as a commander (Prince - `nagid` Heb.) riding on a colt into Jerusalem. It is not about His `becoming` but about His `appearing` in a victory entrance into Jerusalem.

Marilyn.

 

 

 

[ARGOSY]

2 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Argosy,

Thank you for your compliment. I do hear what you are saying that Jesus was/is king even though not recognised. We know that actually He was born a king. However what we are looking at is the `appearing` of Jesus, the Messiah, as a commander (Prince - `nagid` Heb.) riding on a colt into Jerusalem. It is not about His `becoming` but about His `appearing` in a victory entrance into Jerusalem.

Marilyn.

 

 

 

Marilyn, the word "coming" certainly is not restricted to a victory entrance into Jerusalem.  You are squeezing bible wording into your view as if that is the only way. You are seeing way too much into simple wording. Jesus was recognised by some as the Messiah from his baptism. This was his first public appearing to Israel , and he was very well known after that.  Before Palm Sunday, during Palm Sunday, and after Palm Sunday there was some recognition of his status, but that recognition was never universal. You are placing way too much emphasis on the "triumphal entry".

Of all the promises in the bible , the Jew's greatest hope was in a coming Messiah.  Jesus confirmed this promise, surely this confirmation is greater than any other possible "antichrist" confirmation?

And of all the ending of sacrifices, Jesus' being the final sacrificial lamb is the greatest termination of the old sacrifical system in all eternity.  Surely any ending of a sacrificial system by the antichrist would pale in significance?

Knowing that Jesus' ministry was 3.5 years long, started with the greatest confirmation in history (when Jesus and John publicly confirmed the ancient Messianic promise) and ended with the greatest final sacrifice in all eternity, why would you want to see the antichrist in that wording?  ESPecially since Jesus' crucifixion occurred exactly 486.5 years after the decree to restore Jerusalem which was issued in the autumn of 458 BC. Spring 30AD the final lamb sacrifice occurred. Perfect timing!