fulfilled feasts

[Qnts2]

17 minutes ago, Shar said:

Q, I agree that there are certain Messianics that claim they keep the Mosaic Law.  However, like there are many types of Baptists (Free-Will, Independent, Southern, Primitive, etc.), there are many types of Messianics.  Some believe that they should actually go through all 613 commandments and pick out what should and should not be upheld, even to an extreme orthodox manner.  Some definitely don't even try to go there.

Some believe the Messianic Jew has a different set of requirements regarding the Mosaic Law than does the Gentile Messianic.  It goes on and on to certain congregations and their differences.  So, when someone ask if I am Messianic, I ask them what do you mean? I need to know what they have come to fully or erroneously understand before I answer.

I believe the biggest confusion comes with the word "law".  Our English translations are so inadequate because they use the word "law" for the law from which we have been freed.  YEA!  However, they use the word "law" for what is actually referred to as teachings.  We then erroneously conclude that because the word "law" is used, it is always negative, even when it refers to God teachings.

Those teachings are our guidelines and to keep us on the straight and narrow.  I may even use some of the Mosaic Law as a guideline.  For instance, stealing.   Suppose my child stole from someone while spending the night with her friend.  I may want to look at Ex.22:7 as a guideline.  "...if the thief is caught, he should pay double."  Even though this verse does not specifically address the exact act, as I described, it may be a good lesson to my child for stealing.  Or, maybe I will use Pro.6:31 and make her pay back sevenfold.

Yes, there is a wide variation.

I agree with you use of the Mosaic Law as a guideline.

2 Tim 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; ¹⁷ so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Qnts2 said:

 

There are several problems with the proposed day being the Feast of Tabernacles.

The first would be the assumed date of the John the Baptists birth. Of course the author does say 'likely' and does not make it a firm timing. The date for John the Baptist is calculated based on the fact that John's father was a priest, who was a member of the order of Abiyah. There are 24 orders, and the orders serve in the Temple on rotation for 1 week. Since there are 24 orders, each order serves twice a year, plus all orders serve on especially busy Holy Days like the week of Passover. So, we have two approximate times when John's father served based on his order. And then, we do not know exactly how long it took to get home or for his wife to become pregnant. 

The other issue would be some information we have about the birth of Jesus. There were shepherds tending their flocks in the hills. The area of Bethlehem is a arid region, and mild climate. In dry season everything turns brown and stops growing. During the dry season, shepherds do not take their sheep out into the hills, because there is nothing for the flocks to eat. The dry season is approximately from June/July thru October. The rainy season doesn't start until the beginning of November. So, at the time of the Feast of Tabernacles, it is at the end of a long dry season and no shepherds would be with their sheep in the hills.

While Jesus did everything necessary for salvation and that work is complete, I believe Jesus will return (after the fullness of the Gentiles come in), all of the living children of Israel will see Him and be saved, Jesus will defeat all of the armies attacking Israel, and then reign as King from Jerusalem for 1000 year. After the 1000 year reign, the bound demons and people who did not accept Jesus will be judges and caste into the lake of fire. After which, the New Heaven and New Earth will come down.     

The feast of tabernacles was fulfilled in us at Pentecost. He filled the apostles with the holy spirit. We are the temple of God.

2Co 6:16  And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Eph 2:21  In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
 

These things are the power of his resurrection.

Come to think of it, these things are also the things of which the early church councils concerned themselves with

Christology, concerns the person and work of Christ. As the God man

Theology, concerns the nature of God, three being one

Edited February 8, 2016 by Joline
additional comments

[WilliamL]

38 minutes ago, Joline said:

 

Christ Jesus does not need to enter in twice. It was a one time sacrifice, once for all.

It was a one time double sacrifice: Son of God, and Son of Adam.

If Jesus did not enter in twice, then the whole type-and-shadow/rehearsal/mikraw of the Lev. 16 Yom Kippur ceremony was a false one. That is what you are implying by saying "Christ Jesus does not need to enter in twice."

[Qnts2]

Just now, Joline said:

The feast of tabernacles was fulfilled in us at Pentecost. He filled the apostles with the holy spirit. We are the temple of God.

2Co 6:16  And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Eph 2:21  In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
 

These things are the power of his resurrection.

Jesus sent the Holy Spirit 50 days after the first fruits wave offering, which is the Feast of First Fruits. That is why it is called Pentecost which means 50th. The Feast of First Fruits is a harvest celebration and on Pentecost/Shavuot, the first 'harvest' of the first believers occurred. Shavuot is also close to or the day the children of Israel received the Mosaic law. Pentecost is the day that the first believers received the Holy Spirit indwelling, who wrote the law on the hearts of believers. The children of Israel received the Mosaic covenant on Shavuot, and the believers received the seal of the Holy Spirit, and the New Covenant.

The Feast of Tabernacles should not be confused with the Feast of First Fruits. Jesus will return in the future and tabernacle among us and everyone alive at that time. Jesus will reign as King on earth.

Between the spring holy days and the fall holy days is a gap. We are in the gap period, and then Jesus will return. 

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

22 minutes ago, Qnts2 said:

Jesus sent the Holy Spirit 50 days after the first fruits wave offering, which is the Feast of First Fruits. That is why it is called Pentecost which means 50th. The Feast of First Fruits is a harvest celebration and on Pentecost/Shavuot, the first 'harvest' of the first believers occurred. Shavuot is also close to or the day the children of Israel received the Mosaic law. Pentecost is the day that the first believers received the Holy Spirit indwelling, who wrote the law on the hearts of believers. The children of Israel received the Mosaic covenant on Shavuot, and the believers received the seal of the Holy Spirit, and the New Covenant.

The Feast of Tabernacles should not be confused with the Feast of First Fruits. Jesus will return in the future and tabernacle among us and everyone alive at that time. Jesus will reign as King on earth.

Between the spring holy days and the fall holy days is a gap. We are in the gap period, and then Jesus will return. 

had It was a one time double sacrifice: Son of God, and Son of Adam.

If Jesus did not enter in twice, then the whole type-and-shadow/rehearsal/mikraw of the Lev. 16 Yom Kippur ceremony was a false one. That is what you are implying by saying "Christ Jesus does not need to enter in twice."

No Qnts. We are informed WHY the Levitical priest had to enter twice.  First for his own sins. Christ Jesus had NO SIN. There is no need for Christ to enter in twice

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, Qnts2 said:

Jesus sent the Holy Spirit 50 days after the first fruits wave offering, which is the Feast of First Fruits. That is why it is called Pentecost which means 50th. The Feast of First Fruits is a harvest celebration and on Pentecost/Shavuot, the first 'harvest' of the first believers occurred. Shavuot is also close to or the day the children of Israel received the Mosaic law. Pentecost is the day that the first believers received the Holy Spirit indwelling, who wrote the law on the hearts of believers. The children of Israel received the Mosaic covenant on Shavuot, and the believers received the seal of the Holy Spirit, and the New Covenant.

The Feast of Tabernacles should not be confused with the Feast of First Fruits. Jesus will return in the future and tabernacle among us and everyone alive at that time. Jesus will reign as King on earth.

Between the spring holy days and the fall holy days is a gap. We are in the gap period, and then Jesus will return. 

His priesthood is not according to the order of Aaron. He fulfilled all sacrifices in one day. The law is spiritual.

Lu 10:2  Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest.
Joh 4:35  Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.
 

 

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

It was a one time double sacrifice: Son of God, and Son of Adam.

If Jesus did not enter in twice, then the whole type-and-shadow/rehearsal/mikraw of the Lev. 16 Yom Kippur ceremony was a false one. That is what you are implying by saying "Christ Jesus does not need to enter in twice."

No, to say he needs to enter twice, is to say he had sin.

6  Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.
7  But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:

11  But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12  Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
 

Christ had no sin for himself.

 

[Qnts2]

2 minutes ago, Joline said:

His priesthood is not according to the order of Aaron. He fulfilled all sacrifices in one day. The law is spiritual.

Lu 10:2  Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest.
Joh 4:35  Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.
 

 

Again with the priesthood. I already gave my view on this multiple times. You will not agree with me and I will not agree with you. But, I'll add for others that the majority of Holy Days have a meaning and purpose which does not focus on the Priesthood. Look at what the Holy Days actually represented. Each Holy Days was a celebration in remembrance of what God did.

The law is a shadow of things to come, and the Holy Days pointed to what Jesus would do. Passover was about Jesus death, as the Passover lamb or lamb of God, just as the historical Passover lamb died to redeem the children of Israel from bondage in Egypt. The rest of the Holy Days are not about the death of the lamb and the redemption from bondage but are about other harvest plus things which God did for the children of Israel. 

The Feast of Tabernacles was celebrated after the children of Israel entered the promised land and is about the final ingathering of the harvest, and in remembrance of the time Israel spent in the desert looking back at it from the promised land. The promise in the NT for the church is not our time on earth, but looking forward to Jesus reign as King. We are symbolically in the desert. But, when Jesus comes back, and the millenium starts, we will be in the 'promised land', looking back at our time in the world/desert, and rejoicing that Jesus is with us, as King. In Judaism, this time is called the Messianic era, and is a time those who believe in a future Messiah, look forward to as a wonderful and blessed time. 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Qnts2 said:

 Again with the priesthood. I already gave my view on this multiple times. You will not agree with me and I will not agree with you. But, I'll add for others that the majority of Holy Days have a meaning and purpose which does not focus on the Priesthood. Look at what the Holy Days actually represented. Each Holy Days was a celebration in remembrance of what God did.

The law is a shadow of things to come, and the Holy Days pointed to what Jesus would do. Passover was about Jesus death, as the Passover lamb or lamb of God, just as the historical Passover lamb died to redeem the children of Israel from bondage in Egypt. The rest of the Holy Days are not about the death of the lamb and the redemption from bondage but are about other harvest plus things which God did for the children of Israel. 

The Feast of Tabernacles was celebrated after the children of Israel entered the promised land and is about the final ingathering of the harvest, and in remembrance of the time Israel spent in the desert looking back at it from the promised land. The promise in the NT for the church is not our time on earth, but looking forward to Jesus reign as King. We are symbolically in the desert. But, when Jesus comes back, and the millenium starts, we will be in the 'promised land', looking back at our time in the world/desert, and rejoicing that Jesus is with us, as King. In Judaism, this time is called the Messianic era, and is a time those who believe in a future Messiah, look forward to as a wonderful and blessed time. 

Yep we disagree yet agree. The feasts as we can see, and the temple ministry during the feasts, was a pattern and Shadow of the work Christ has performed in the true tabernacle as our high priest.

But for all out there consider. According to the earthly worldly tabernacle and priesthood, the order of Aaron had to enter twice. That is because as mere men, they had to make atonement first for their own sin.

Christ offered himself, going in once. He  had no sin to atone for first.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Joline

[Qnts2]

26 minutes ago, Joline said:

No Qnts. We are informed WHY the Levitical priest had to enter twice.  First for his own sins. Christ Jesus had NO SIN. There is no need for Christ to enter in twice

I think you mistakenly put in my nickname, as you are not responding to my post.

I do not know if Jesus entered the heavenly Holy of Holies once, twice or more. But, I do know that Jesus also did not need to be baptized for the repentance of sin as He had no sin, but submitted to John the Baptists baptism, so to 'fulfill all righteousness'. So, I do not believe that we can know at this time whether Jesus entered just once, or entered twice, but Jesus might enter twice if it involves the 'fulfilling righteousness' which must be fulfilled.

Mathew 3:¹³ Then Jesus *arrived from Galilee at the Jordan coming to John, to be baptized by him. ¹⁴ But John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I have need to be baptized by You, and do You come to me?” ¹⁵ But Jesus answering said to him, “Permit it at this time; for in this way it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he *permitted Him.