Qnts2 Posted February 9, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,875 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 1,336 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 9, 2016 13 minutes ago, Joline said: I gave you the scripture which spoke of those who came in privily. They were exposed at the council. Why call me prejudice because I disagree strongly with a sect of Judaism? The Apostles were Jews too. There have been others here which have accused the Sadducees of being responsible for Christs death. The Sadducees were also Hebrews. I quess it all depends upon which sect someone speaks about is all. The verses you are applying to the Pharisees who believed on Jesus, are your own assumptions. None of those verses state they apply to the Pharisees who believed on Jesus. Both the Pharisees and Sadducees who were not believers in Jesus, wanted to get rid of Jesus, but they are not responsible for Jesus death. Pilate had the authority to condemn Jesus to death, and did condemn Him to death, but Pilate is not responsible for Jesus death. All who believe on Jesus, needed their sins forgiven as all are sinners, and the way that was done was by Jesus death, so in a way, all sinners are responsible for Jesus death, but sinners do not get to take credit for Jesus death. Who killed Jesus? John 10:17 For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again. 18 No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. Jesus laid His life down for the sheep. No one was capable of taking His life from Him but He laid it down by His own initiative. Why do I call you prejudice? Because you are interpreting scripture in a way that scripture never says, against the Pharisees. When a person misinterprets to show a group of people so consistently in the worst possible way, without reasonable substantiation, it shows a prejudice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mevosper Posted February 9, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 317 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 133 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/24/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 9, 2016 6 hours ago, Qnts2 said: I have heard the argument that the middle of winter would have been too cold for the shepherds to be out with the sheep, but the area around Bethlehem is a temperate climate, which means the average high during December was around the high 50's to the middle 60's, which is warm enough to have the sheep out grazing. In the hills around Bethlehem, there would be nothing to graze on during the summer because of the lack of rain. So, I find the arguments for sheep grazing in the summer and fall to be a mistake. From Smith's bible dictionary: "As in the time of our Saviour (Luke 12: 54), the rains come chiefly from the S. or S.W. They commence at the end of October or beginning of November, and continue with greater or less constancy till the end of February or middle of March, and occasionally, though rarely, to the end of April. It is not a heavy continuous rain, so much as a succession of severe showers or storms with intervening periods of fine bright weather, permitting the grain crops to grow and ripen. And although the season is not divided by any entire cessation of rain for a lengthened interval, as some represent, yet there appears to be a diminution in the fall for a few weeks in December and January, after which it begins again, and continues during February and till the conclusion of the season." Alfred Edersheim wrote a paper on the climate and rain around Bethlehem and included this quote from Smith's bible dictionary. What are your thoughts on John 1:14 and God's dwelling with us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qnts2 Posted February 9, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,875 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 1,336 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 9, 2016 1 minute ago, mevosper said: What are your thoughts on John 1:14 and God's dwelling with us? I believe that the Word is Jesus, who is God, and He dwelled among the disciples in Israel. He physically dwelled on earth but does not physically dwell on earth now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mevosper Posted February 9, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 317 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 133 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/24/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 9, 2016 Exactly. God's word is deeper than any ocean. It's not wrong to hunt for wisdom as treasure. The spiritual is above, the physical is below. He already reigns over all. He has all authority in heaven and earth. There is no need for him to rule from the physical. John 16:7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted February 9, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 9, 2016 47 minutes ago, mevosper said: Exactly. God's word is deeper than any ocean. It's not wrong to hunt for wisdom as treasure. The spiritual is above, the physical is below. He already reigns over all. He has all authority in heaven and earth. There is no need for him to rule from the physical. John 16:7. Amen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, Qnts2 said: The verses you are applying to the Pharisees who believed on Jesus, are your own assumptions. None of those verses state they apply to the Pharisees who believed on Jesus. Both the Pharisees and Sadducees who were not believers in Jesus, wanted to get rid of Jesus, but they are not responsible for Jesus death. Pilate had the authority to condemn Jesus to death, and did condemn Him to death, but Pilate is not responsible for Jesus death. All who believe on Jesus, needed their sins forgiven as all are sinners, and the way that was done was by Jesus death, so in a way, all sinners are responsible for Jesus death, but sinners do not get to take credit for Jesus death. Who killed Jesus? John 10:17 For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again. 18 No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. Jesus laid His life down for the sheep. No one was capable of taking His life from Him but He laid it down by His own initiative. Why do I call you prejudice? Because you are interpreting scripture in a way that scripture never says, against the Pharisees. When a person misinterprets to show a group of people so consistently in the worst possible way, without reasonable substantiation, it shows a prejudice. First of all I do believe those scriptures do speak of "judaizers". And I never said the Sadducees killed Jesus, a Messianic on here did. And you speak as though no Jews are non Messianic. More Jews are in the Church, than in Messianic synagogues. I think you are the one that wants to label someone who does not agree with you is all. There is no need for that. I also believe first century Jewish worship looked more like the liturgical churches. After all the historical Churches do look much closer to the temple ministry of the first century. Edited February 9, 2016 by Joline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) 1 minute ago, Joline said: Nt Edited February 9, 2016 by Joline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shar Posted February 9, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 327 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 232 Days Won: 2 Joined: 01/01/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 9, 2016 13 hours ago, thereselittleflower said: Where does he state "to learn the tradition of the pharisees'? Mt.23:2 From the Greek Interlinear ..."The scribes and the Pharisees sat down on Moses' seat. Then all things, whatever they tell you to keep, keep and do. But not according to their works, for they say and do not do." In other words, truly keep them. Don't be like some who are hypocrites and say to keep them, but do not. The Scribes and Pharisees were the keepers of the law, both written and oral. They made sure it was protected and accurately transcribed. That was another distinction of the Pharisees from the other sects of Judaism, besides believing in the physical return of the Messiah. I agree someone should start another thread if we wish to continue this discussion. There is plenty to say and discuss that can be quite interesting. This forum is about fulfilled feasts and I don't want to take from that discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shar Posted February 9, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 327 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 232 Days Won: 2 Joined: 01/01/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 9, 2016 14 hours ago, Joline said: Catholic yes, but I would not know if you were Greek Catholic, Roman Catholic, Coptic, Catholic, etc. There is no substance to what you have said that I can see. Where do you get that Jesus said to learn the traditions of the Pharisees? See my last post to litteflower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinitin Posted February 9, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,366 Content Per Day: 0.78 Reputation: 2,150 Days Won: 9 Joined: 01/10/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) 13 hours ago, Joline said: He already finished the law? Yes, sin is breaking the law of God he is the one for all men for all time atonement for our sin. The wages of sin is death. There would be no death if there was no sin and no law. The Lord had no sin so death could not hold Him in the grave. We however still Sin and our flesh still dies so sin and the law is still at work in this world and in us. Jesus said in Mathew 5:18 "For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished." The complete destruction of every thing that exalts itself above God comes before all things are accomplished. The Lord will still judge this world and remove death from us by fulfilling the fall feasts, the days of awe (great tribulation). (trumpets) the Lord coming back to earth and blood staining his robes to destroy all the enemies of God and give us a new beginning in our incorruptible bodies and white robes. (tabernacle or booths) To hand this world completed a new creation back to God and dwell with us eternally. The frustrations this world was subjected to in hope will be removed and our Heavenly Father will have a harvest of many sons planted from the heavenly seed of His begotten Son our Lord, Priest and King. Death Hell and The grave will all be destroyed When he comes back to fulfill the prophecy rehearsed by man till the destruction as a witness to the work he is going to do. When Jesus hung on the Cross He said "it was finished" so if I under stand you correctly all was fulfilled their? If that is correct then why then 50 days after passover and 10 days after his ascension were the "now apostles" assembled in the upper room observing the feast of Pentecost (shimchath torah, or Joy of the Law) waiting for Christ to send the Spirit of Grace in it's fullness the heavenly seed and seal for Gods planting of His kingdom? Has he now told us his seed planted to wait in hope as the full number of the gentiles come in till the harvest and the Spirit of Grace finishes it's work? It is as good as done because the Lord has spoke all these things. But, for now he has told us to wait till the harvest and all things the Lord has promised to be accomplished. I'm going to edit and ad to this because I fear your defence against those who deceive by making salvation our work instead of the Lords kicks In. Salvation and receiving the eternal kingdom is fully completed by the righteousness of our Lord not by us making ourself righteous by the law. His blood has been accepted as the once for all atonement for our sin and his righteousness is credited to us unto salvation. Yet, at the same time as knowing this is true I also know this world will not be made holy or pure and the wickedness, evil, death, hell and the grave will not be over come by man or the keeping od the law. It will also be overcome by the hand of the Lord when He and the angels return to gather, separate, collect and destroy at harvest. Edited February 9, 2016 by Reinitin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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