pre trib rapture is fake true or false

[HAZARD]

These Scriptures clearly shoot your pet theory out of the water. Its either you don't understand them or you just don't believe them, either way, its your decision and your personal conclusion.

This is where Christ comes and get the saints, those in Him;

  V. 17, Then we which are alive and remain SHALL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS,  TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR:  and so shall we ever be with the Lord. The rapture is the time when Christ comes FOR THE SAINTS, He meets them in the air here and takes them to Heaven!

1. And this is where He comes back with them from Heaven at the second coming;

Even my grand children get this its that simple.

2. The second coming is when He comes back to the Earth WITH THEM  (Zech. 14:1-4  
1 The destroyers of Jerusalem destroyed.
3 The coming of Christ, and the graces of his kingdom.
12 The plague of Jerusalem's enemies.
16 The remnant shall turn to the Lord;
20 and their spoils shall be holy.
    1, Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
    2, For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
    3, Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
    4, And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

 

Jude 1:14,  And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, [Christ isn't getting them here, He's returning with them.]

 

 

1 Thess. 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
    14, For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
    15, For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
    16, For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

    17, Then we which are alive and remain SHALL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS,  TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

The rapture is the time when Christ comes FOR THE SAINTS, and the second coming is when He comes back to the Earth WITH THEM  (Zech. 14:1-5; Jude 14; Rev. 19:11-21).

 

At the rapture Christ takes the saints to Heaven (1 Thess. 3:13; 4:16; Col. 3:4), and at the second coming He leaves Heaven with them (Rev. 19:11-21).

 

At the rapture Christ does not come to the Earth (1 Thess. 4:16-17), but at the second coming He does (Zech. 14:4; Matt. 24:29-31).

 

Since Christ does not come to the earth at the Rapture, it cannot be called the second coming of Christ.

 

[HAZARD]

1st Timothy 4:10,

• b [all men, specially of those that believe] There is a sense in which God has already saved all men -- by providing salvation for them to receive if they want to. When Adam and Eve incurred the death penalty, the race would have been extinguished if God had not interposed and promised the seed of the woman. In the final sense of salvation, God becomes the Savior only of those who accept the Redeemer by faith (John. 3:16).

 

1 Thessalonians 3:13,

a [To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints] The 3rd New Testament prophecy in 1Thessalonians (1 Thess. 3:13, unfulfilled). Next,  1 Thess. 4:13. This refers to the rapture when Christ meets the saints in the air (1 Thess. 4:16) and takes them to heaven where they are presented before God the Father and established in eternal and unblameable holiness by God. Up to this point salvation and eternal life are given to men on condition.

In the Rapture men receive unforteitable life as a harvest of a life of sowing to the Spirit and to fulfil the promises of eternal life in the next life (Mat. 7:13-14; 18:8-9; 19:28-29; Mark. 10:29-30; Luke. 18:29-30; Rom. 2:7; 6:21-23; Gal. 6:7-8; 1 Tim. 1:16; 4:8; 6:12,19; Tit. 1:2; 3:7; 1 Pet. 1:5,9,13; 3:7; 1 John. 2:25; Jude 1:20-24; Dan. 12:2.)

b [unblameable] Greek: amemptos (GSN-<G273>) Here; Phil. 2:15; Phil. 3:6; Lk. 1:6; 1 Thess. 3:13; Heb. 8:7

c [at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints] This could not refer to the event of Zech. 14:5; Jude 1:14 when the saints will accompany Christ to earth, for they are not then presented before the Father. By this time they will have been with God for at least seven years. This then refers to the coming of Jesus with the saints back to heaven after He meets them in the air (1 Thess. 4:16-17; John. 13:1-3).

[Kan]

2 hours ago, HAZARD said:

These Scriptures clearly shoot your pet theory out of the water. Its either you don't understand them or you just don't believe them, either way, its your decision and your personal conclusion.

This is where Christ comes and get the saints, those in Him;

  V. 17, Then we which are alive and remain SHALL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS,  TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR:  and so shall we ever be with the Lord. The rapture is the time when Christ comes FOR THE SAINTS, He meets them in the air here and takes them to Heaven!

1. And this is where He comes back with them from Heaven at the second coming;

Even my grand children get this its that simple.

2. The second coming is when He comes back to the Earth WITH THEM  (Zech. 14:1-4  
1 The destroyers of Jerusalem destroyed.
3 The coming of Christ, and the graces of his kingdom.
12 The plague of Jerusalem's enemies.
16 The remnant shall turn to the Lord;
20 and their spoils shall be holy.
    1, Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
    2, For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
    3, Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
    4, And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

 

Jude 1:14,  And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, [Christ isn't getting them here, He's returning with them.]

 

 

1 Thess. 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
    14, For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
    15, For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
    16, For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

    17, Then we which are alive and remain SHALL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS,  TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

The rapture is the time when Christ comes FOR THE SAINTS, and the second coming is when He comes back to the Earth WITH THEM  (Zech. 14:1-5; Jude 14; Rev. 19:11-21).

 

At the rapture Christ takes the saints to Heaven (1 Thess. 3:13; 4:16; Col. 3:4), and at the second coming He leaves Heaven with them (Rev. 19:11-21).

 

At the rapture Christ does not come to the Earth (1 Thess. 4:16-17), but at the second coming He does (Zech. 14:4; Matt. 24:29-31).

 

Since Christ does not come to the earth at the Rapture, it cannot be called the second coming of Christ.

 

Christ returns, there is the first main resurrection, and Jesus takes the saints to heaven, and comes back with them after a thousand years. The city descends to earth, there is the second resurrection and the wicked are judged and destroyed. Then the earth is renewed.

Jesus coming with all His saints also happens at the second coming, who do you think was resurrected with Jesus before He went to heaven? - thousands of saints were resurrected at that time, (the first fruits of the harvest) these travel with Him from heaven to earth soon, at the end of the world. I thought you knew that? Matt 27:52,53.

So tell me which text supporting the rapture cannot be applied to the second coming?

[HAZARD]

Your question is as confused as your understanding of the pre-trib. rapture which is so clearly and simply laid out in detail that even children can understand it.

One part of your question is understandable and I'm surprised you missed the simple answer given several times already.

"So tell me which text supporting the rapture cannot be applied to the second coming?"

The simple fact that when Christ comes to take His saints to Heaven before the tribulation, HE DOES NOT COME TO THE EARTH AS SUCH, HE MEETS THEM IN THE AIR

1 Thess. 4:16, For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
   

 V. 17, THEN WE WHICH ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN SHALL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS, TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR: AND SO SHALL WE EVER BE WITH THE LORD.

1. he dead in Christ shall  rise first.

2. the we which are alive and remain (because we were not a part of those who were dead) shall be caught up with those who were raised, and we shall meet Christ I"N THE AIR" and be taken to heaven.

Now if you don't see that, don't understand that, I don't know if you ever will get it.

[Serving]

20 hours ago, Kan said:

You explained that well, thank you. Sorry for putting you into the ghost bag. I did not know you had a completely different idea which is in line with the Bible.

Thanks Kan .. hey btw .. there's no need to apologise, we both fired off a few right jabs, if anything, I'm sorry for being overly blunt in a couple of my remarks .. anyways, it's all good.        

[Serving]

22 hours ago, HAZARD said:

THE RAPTURE WILL BE PRE-TRIB, NO DOUBT ABOUT IT. BELIEVE WHAT YOU READ OR BE LEFT BEHIND AS A DISBELIEVER. 

Oh, we believe what we read friend, don't worry about that.

Revelation 20:4    And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

OBVIOUSLY these saints were present in the world before the tribulation of the saints even started okay, because according to rev 13, a wicked man rises to power and THEN demands that ALL mankind take this mark or else .. so this is a PRE TRIBULATION event BEFORE he passes his LAW to mark everybody .. and this MARKING the people is what actually CAUSES the tribulation of the saints .. and I ask you .. WHO refuses to comply with that wicked man? Well, I can tell you without an ounce of doubt, the SAINTS do of course !! And WHAT are saints? They are those who are IN Christ. 

Again, let that sink in, BEFORE this wicked man comes on to the world scene, there are SAINTS in the world AT THE SAME TIME that that wicked one rises up, meaning those saints are actually PRE TRIBULATION saints .. you really need to think about that, seriously.

THEN .. THEN .. then an edict goes out for ALL MEN to take this mark .. NOW starts the tribulation of the saints .. THEN ..THEN .. then those SAME saints who were here on earth BEFORE that TRIBULATION even BEGAN, suddenly find themselves as targets for not complying with this wicked man's demands and are caused to be PUT TO DEATH .. it is NOW and because of their refusal to comply that they are become known as tribulation saints ..

Who just happen to be the very SAME saints who were IN THE WORLD BEFORE THE TRIBULATION EVEN STARTED !!!!!!! And those very same saints who were in the world before the tribulation began, WERE KILLED FOR THE WITNESS OF CHRIST of which the above scripture I just provided speaks about. 

So what you are preaching is in direct opposition to Christ's declared word, indeed, pray it is not YOU who is in fact left behind for contradicting Christ's most IMPORTANT EVER WARNING to ALL of His CHILDREN around the world in this, the last generation .. of whom your doctrine actually disarms and weakens with false hope that will never be realised.

UNTIL you can get around Rev 20:4, the rest of your post is irrelevant within this context .. you really need to rethink what your doctrine makers have so obviously overlooked on this .. simple mistake, but a mistake nevertheless, and a very DANGEROUS one at that.

 

[Kan]

16 hours ago, HAZARD said:

Your question is as confused as your understanding of the pre-trib. rapture which is so clearly and simply laid out in detail that even children can understand it.

One part of your question is understandable and I'm surprised you missed the simple answer given several times already.

 

 

The simple fact that when Christ comes to take His saints to Heaven before the tribulation, HE DOES NOT COME TO THE EARTH AS SUCH, HE MEETS THEM IN THE AIR

1 Thess. 4:16, For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
   

 V. 17, THEN WE WHICH ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN SHALL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS, TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR: AND SO SHALL WE EVER BE WITH THE LORD.

1. he dead in Christ shall  rise first.

2. the we which are alive and remain (because we were not a part of those who were dead) shall be caught up with those who were raised, and we shall meet Christ I"N THE AIR" and be taken to heaven.

Now if you don't see that, don't understand that, I don't know if you ever will get it.

You must believe that Jesus will come to earth and settle here. That's why you have Him coming and going and returning in two trips, first the rapture then the second advent. But if the resurrected saints and those that are alive all leave earth to be with Jesus, they don't have to make a second trip.

Not a wonder you are so frustrated that I cannot see.

I don't believe Jesus is making two trips or that there are two advents or takings. I can see your logic.

I believe that Jesus comes and resurrects the dead, and takes the living with Him shortly after the resurrection, and that this is called "the first resurrection." The second belongs to the wicked on the day of judgement which occurs after the thousand years. In the mean time, after the Advent, the saints are with Jesus in heaven, in the new Jerusalem which comes down to earth at the end of the thousand years.

I don't believe in the earth being inhabited after the advent because the earth is destroyed by fire, just like the old world was destroyed by the flood. No one lives through the advent of Christ, except the saints who are saved and leave the place, and the devil and his angels who stay down here, like in a prison with no one to ruin.

[HAZARD]

I can give you something you may want to try and get over and get with it. There is more to this than meets the eye. Read all the Scriptures then have a think, and lets know if you finally get it

Here is some additional knowledge you may have missed in your studies.

That there have been and will be five raptures in the first resurrection?

First, the going to Heaven of Christ and the saints who were resurrected after HIS resurrection (Matt. 27:52; Eph. 4:7-11; Acts 1:11).

Second, The rapture of those "that are Christs at His coming" (1 Cor. 15:23; 1 Thess. 4:13-16).

Third, The rapture of the 144,000 Jews in the middle of the Week (Rev. 12:5; 14:1-5; Dan. 12:1; Isa. 66:7-8).

Fourth, The rapture of the tribulation saints (Rev. 7:9-17; 15: 2-4; 20:4-6).

Fifth, The rapture of the two witnesses (Rev. 11:3-12).

That there are two main resurrections from the dead with a thousand years between them. The first is that of the blessed and holy; and this is before the thousand years, for we read "THE REST OF THE DEAD LIVED NOT AGAIN UNTILL THE THJOUSAND YEARS WERE FINISHED" (Rev. 20:4-15).

 

[Kan]

1 hour ago, HAZARD said:

I can give you something you may want to try and get over and get with it. There is more to this than meets the eye. Read all the Scriptures then have a think, and lets know if you finally get it

Here is some additional knowledge you may have missed in your studies.

That there have been and will be five raptures in the first resurrection?

First, the going to Heaven of Christ and the saints who were resurrected after HIS resurrection (Matt. 27:52; Eph. 4:7-11; Acts 1:11).

Second, The rapture of those "that are Christs at His coming" (1 Cor. 15:23; 1 Thess. 4:13-16).

Third, The rapture of the 144,000 Jews in the middle of the Week (Rev. 12:5; 14:1-5; Dan. 12:1; Isa. 66:7-8).

Fourth, The rapture of the tribulation saints (Rev. 7:9-17; 15: 2-4; 20:4-6).

Fifth, The rapture of the two witnesses (Rev. 11:3-12).

That there are two main resurrections from the dead with a thousand years between them. The first is that of the blessed and holy; and this is before the thousand years, for we read "THE REST OF THE DEAD LIVED NOT AGAIN UNTILL THE THJOUSAND YEARS WERE FINISHED" (Rev. 20:4-15).

 

I knew there were several resurrections in the Bible, but raptures? What is a rapture anyway, how is it any different to a resurrection?

If the above is true, then there must be more raptures, such as Moses, Enoch, Elijah?

[HAZARD]

2 minutes ago, Kan said:

I knew there were several resurrections in the Bible, but raptures? What is a rapture anyway, how is it any different to a resurrection?

How is the rapture different from the resurrection? One can and will be resurrected from the dead as Christ was.

One is never raptured from the dead.

Resurrection:  .  .  .  .  noun

1.  the act of rising from the dead.

 

2.  (initial capital letter) the rising of Christ after His death and burial.

 

3. (initial capital letter) the rising of the dead on Judgment Day.

 

4. the state of those risen from the dead.

 

5. a rising again, as from decay, disuse, etc.; revival.

 

Rapture:  .  .  .  . The transporting of a person alive, from one place to another, especially to heaven.

The Rapture,  .  .  .  .  Theology. the experience, anticipated by some fundamentalist Christians, of meeting Christ midway in the air upon his return to earth.

1 Thess. 4:17, Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.