Determining the Dates for Easter and Passover

[Qnts2]

1 minute ago, Paradigm said:

This is beginning to seem pointless. The very first thing in my post was the definition for stranger. I provided the Strong's Definition of the word translated as "stranger as well as its root." Is that definition not sufficient? 

Also, I did not say that only Judah dwelt in the Southern kingdom. I said it was mainly Judah, Benjamin and Levi. It seems like most of what you respond to me with are things that I did not say. If you have carefully read through my posts, you will see that I have provided multiple scriptures from both OT and NT pertaining to these topics.  

The House of Israel (the Ten Northern tribes) were taken into Assyria a long time before the southern kingdom Judah was taken to Babylon. Some of those who were taken to Babylon, but many did not. Not many of the Ten northern tribes returned. 

1 Kings 11:31-34  And he said to Jeroboam, Take thee ten pieces: for thus saith the Lord, the God of Israel, Behold, I will rend the kingdom out of the hand of Solomon, and will give ten tribes to thee:³² (But he shall have one tribe for my servant David's sake, and for Jerusalem's sake, the city which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel:)³³ Because that they have forsaken me, and have worshipped Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, Chemosh the god of the Moabites, and Milcom the god of the children of Ammon, and have not walked in my ways, to do that which is right in mine eyes, and to keep my statutes and my judgments, as did David his father.³⁴ Howbeit I will not take the whole kingdom out of his hand: but I will make him prince all the days of his life for David my servant's sake, whom I chose, because he kept my commandments and my statutes:³⁵ But I will take the kingdom out of his son's hand, and will give it unto thee, even ten tribes.

Ezekiel 37:10-12  So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.¹¹ Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.¹² Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

Ezekiel 37:19-23 ¹⁹ Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.²⁰ And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.²¹ And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:²² And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.²³ Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.

Jeremiah 16:14-16  Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that it shall no more be said, The Lord liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;¹⁵ But, The Lord liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers.¹⁶ Behold, I will send for many fishers, saith the Lord, and they shall fish them; and after will I send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain, and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks.

Jeremiah 23:6-7  In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, The Lord Our Righteousness.⁷ Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that they shall no more say, The Lord liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;⁸ But, The Lord liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.

Isaiah 27:12-13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall beat off from the channel of the river unto the stream of Egypt, and ye shall be gathered one by one, O ye children of Israel.¹³ And it shall come to pass in that day, that the great trumpet shall be blown, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, and shall worship the Lord in the holy mount at Jerusalem.  

 

Jeremiah 31:10 Hear the word of the Lord, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock.

 

Jeremiah 50:17 Israel is a scattered sheep; the lions have driven him away: first the king of Assyria hath devoured him; and last this Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon hath broken his bones.

 

2 Chronicles 18:16 Then he said, I did see all Israel scattered upon the mountains, as sheep that have no shepherd: and the Lord said, These have no master; let them return therefore every man to his house in peace. 

Matthew 9:36 But when he saw the multitudes, he was moved with compassion on them, because they fainted, and were scattered abroad, as sheep having no shepherd.

Ezekiel 11:17 Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord God; I will even gather you from the people, and assemble you out of the countries where ye have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel.

 

Ezekiel 28:25 Thus saith the Lord God; When I shall have gathered the house of Israel from the people among whom they are scattered, and shall be sanctified in them in the sight of the heathen, then shall they dwell in their land that I have given to my servant Jacob.

Joel 3:2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

Zechariah 1:19 And I said unto the angel that talked with me, What be these? And he answered me, These are the horns which have scattered Judah, Israel, and Jerusalem.

John 11:52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

 

James 1:1  James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

 

First of all, I described what a stranger was in scripture as the term stranger is applied to the children of Israel when the children of Israel lived in Egypt. That is very important when understanding the Mosaic law as you were pointing out the term stranger in the Mosaic law. If a non-Jew did not live in Israel, then they were not a stranger in Israel and the subset of laws did not apply to them. It appeared you were trying to apply the stranger subset of laws to non-Jews who do not live in Israel. 

James 1:1 is addressed to all 12 tribes which were scattered. What does that mean? Well, first of all, James was addressing people who were known at that time. That means James knew that his letter would reach all 12 tribes at that time. Now for scattered. When the children of Israel were disobedient, they were scattered outside of the land of Israel. So, James is addressing members of the 12 tribes who were not living in the land of Israel at that time. When members of the 12 tribes returned to Israel after the Babylonian captivity, some of each tribe returned but the majority did not return. The remained 'scattered'. The modern term is living in diaspora. However, those who returned were in contact with those who chose not to return. James is writing to all 12 tribes living in Diaspora.

Yes, God promised to re-gather a remnant of the 12 tribes which is happening at this time. Israel is working with people from all 12 tribes to bring them back to the land of Israel. The people from the tribes know who they are, have stories of being driven out from their land, keep at least some of the Mosaic law, and are separated from the surrounding people by traditions and not inter-marrying. Since the priesthood lived with each tribe, a certain percentage would be from the priesthood linage. Israel has found a genetic marker and tests the people to see if they have the 'DNA'. Among those returning are the B'nei Menashe (Mannasseh which is the half tribe descendants or sons of Joseph).  

[Qnts2]

Just a bit a history if anyone is interested.

The northern kingdom was conquered by Assyria. The southern kingdom was conquered by Babylon. A that point, there were no more split kingdoms as all of the children of Israel were scattered. After, Assyria and Babylon warred against each other with Assyria defeating Babylon and then in 612 bce, Babylon defeated Assyria. So, all 12 tribes were in diaspora in Babylon/Persia when King Cyrus allowed the children of Israel to return to the land of Israel to rebuild the Temple in about 539 bce. 

Ezra 6:16And the children of Israel, the priests, and the Levites, and the rest of the children of the captivity, kept the dedication of this house of God with joy.

17 And offered at the dedication of this house of God an hundred bullocks, two hundred rams, four hundred lambs; and for a sin offering for all Israel, twelve he goats, according to the number of the tribes of Israel.

According to the Mosaic law, each tribe was to bring a goat for sacrifice. Since there were 12 goats sacrificed, one for each of the tribes, we know that there were members of all 12 tribes who returned to the land of Israel.

By the time of Jesus, the Roman empire was in control of much of the land covering the Babylonian empire. The Apostles traveled and shared the gospel with children of Israel who were living in diaspora, which was actually the majority of Jewish people who were living outside of the land of Israel.

Today, some of the scattered people who were not in the Roman empire are returning to Israel from India, Africa, and China.

[Paradigm]

8 minutes ago, Qnts2 said:

First of all, I described what a stranger was in scripture as the term stranger is applied to the children of Israel when the children of Israel lived in Egypt. That is very important when understanding the Mosaic law as you were pointing out the term stranger in the Mosaic law. If a non-Jew did not live in Israel, then they were not a stranger in Israel and the subset of laws did not apply to them. It appeared you were trying to apply the stranger subset of laws to non-Jews who do not live in Israel. 

James 1:1 is addressed to all 12 tribes which were scattered. What does that mean? Well, first of all, James was addressing people who were known at that time. That means James knew that his letter would reach all 12 tribes at that time. Now for scattered. When the children of Israel were disobedient, they were scattered outside of the land of Israel. So, James is addressing members of the 12 tribes who were not living in the land of Israel at that time. When members of the 12 tribes returned to Israel after the Babylonian captivity, some of each tribe returned but the majority did not return. The remained 'scattered'. The modern term is living in diaspora. However, those who returned were in contact with those who chose not to return. James is writing to all 12 tribes living in Diaspora.

Yes, God promised to re-gather a remnant of the 12 tribes which is happening at this time. Israel is working with people from all 12 tribes to bring them back to the land of Israel. The people from the tribes know who they are, have stories of being driven out from their land, keep at least some of the Mosaic law, and are separated from the surrounding people by traditions and not inter-marrying. Since the priesthood lived with each tribe, a certain percentage would be from the priesthood linage. Israel has found a genetic marker and tests the people to see if they have the 'DNA'. Among those returning are the B'nei Menashe (Mannasseh which is the half tribe descendants or sons of Joseph).  

Yes, I agree with most of what you have written there.

How many folks have DNA of one of the tribes of Israel, and yet are unaware of it? 

Ephraim was the head of the House of Israel. Because Israel became mixed among the nations.

 

Hosea 7:8 Ephraim, he hath mixed himself among the people; Ephraim is a cake not turned.

John 7:35 Then said the Jews among themselves, Whither will he go, that we shall not find him? will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles,  and teach the Gentiles?

I thought of another passage that is interesting in regards to this subject as well:

 

Hosea 1:3-11 

3 So he went and took Gomer the daughter of Diblaim; which conceived, and bare him a son.

⁴ And the Lord said unto him, Call his name Jezreel; for yet a little while, and I will avenge the blood of Jezreel upon the house of Jehu, and will cause to cease the kingdom of the house of Israel.

⁵ And it shall come to pass at that day, that I will break the bow of Israel, in the valley of Jezreel.

⁶ And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Loruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.

⁷ But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the Lord their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.

⁸ Now when she had weaned Loruhamah, she conceived, and bare a son.

⁹ Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.

¹⁰ Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

¹¹ Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

The context of the above passage is Judah and Isreal. Though he will have mercy on Judah, Israel would cease to be a kingdom for a time. Israel (The Northern House) would become "No my people" for a time. Eventually they will be gathered and called the sons of the Living God. This passage is what Paul quotes from in Romans

Romans 9:23-26

²³ And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 

²⁴ Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

²⁵ As he saith also in Hosea, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

²⁶ And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

 

Romans 11:24-25 

²⁴ For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

²⁵ For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

 

Paul is referring here to Genesis 48.

Genesis 48:10-19 

10 Now the eyes of Israel were dim for age, so that he could not see. And he brought them near unto him; and he kissed them, and embraced them.

11 And Israel said unto Joseph, I had not thought to see thy face: and, lo, God hath shewed me also thy seed.

12 And Joseph brought them out from between his knees, and he bowed himself with his face to the earth.

13 And Joseph took them both, Ephraim in his right hand toward Israel's left hand, and Manasseh in his left hand toward Israel's right hand, and brought them near unto him.

14 And Israel stretched out his right hand, and laid it upon Ephraim's head, who was the younger, and his left hand upon Manasseh's head, guiding his hands wittingly; for Manasseh was the firstborn.

15 And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day,

16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.

17 And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father's hand, to remove it from Ephraim's head unto Manasseh's head.

18 And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.

19 And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, (Manasseh)  and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother (Ephraim)  shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.

 

The phrase "multitude of nations" is melo ha goyim. Goyim is often translated as Gentiles. 

OT:4393 melo' (mel-o'); rarely melow' (mel-o'); or melow (Ezek 41:8), (mel-o'); from OT:4390; fulness (literally or figuratively):  KJV -  all along, all that is (there-) in, fill, (X that whereof ... was) full, fulness, [handfull, multitude. 

    Millo'. See OT:4407.

OT:1471 gowy (go'-ee); rarely (shortened) goy (go'-ee); apparently from the same root as OT:1465 (in the sense of massing); a foreign nation; hence, a Gentile; also (figuratively) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts: KJV - Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

Hence, blindness in part has happened unto Israel until the "melo ha goyim" which was the prophecy spoken over Ephraim. 

 

[Qnts2]

1 hour ago, Paradigm said:

Yes, I agree with most of what you have written there.

How many folks have DNA of one of the tribes of Israel, and yet are unaware of it? 

Ephraim was the head of the House of Israel. Because Israel became mixed among the nations.

 

Hosea 7:8 Ephraim, he hath mixed himself among the people; Ephraim is a cake not turned.

John 7:35 Then said the Jews among themselves, Whither will he go, that we shall not find him? will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles,  and teach the Gentiles?

I thought of another passage that is interesting in regards to this subject as well:

 

Hosea 1:3-11 

3 So he went and took Gomer the daughter of Diblaim; which conceived, and bare him a son.

⁴ And the Lord said unto him, Call his name Jezreel; for yet a little while, and I will avenge the blood of Jezreel upon the house of Jehu, and will cause to cease the kingdom of the house of Israel.

⁵ And it shall come to pass at that day, that I will break the bow of Israel, in the valley of Jezreel.

⁶ And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Loruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.

⁷ But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the Lord their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.

⁸ Now when she had weaned Loruhamah, she conceived, and bare a son.

⁹ Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.

¹⁰ Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

¹¹ Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

The context of the above passage is Judah and Isreal. Though he will have mercy on Judah, Israel would cease to be a kingdom for a time. Israel (The Northern House) would become "No my people" for a time. Eventually they will be gathered and called the sons of the Living God. This passage is what Paul quotes from in Romans

Romans 9:23-26

²³ And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 

²⁴ Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

²⁵ As he saith also in Hosea, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

²⁶ And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

 

Romans 11:24-25 

²⁴ For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

²⁵ For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

 

Paul is referring here to Genesis 48.

Genesis 48:10-19 

10 Now the eyes of Israel were dim for age, so that he could not see. And he brought them near unto him; and he kissed them, and embraced them.

11 And Israel said unto Joseph, I had not thought to see thy face: and, lo, God hath shewed me also thy seed.

12 And Joseph brought them out from between his knees, and he bowed himself with his face to the earth.

13 And Joseph took them both, Ephraim in his right hand toward Israel's left hand, and Manasseh in his left hand toward Israel's right hand, and brought them near unto him.

14 And Israel stretched out his right hand, and laid it upon Ephraim's head, who was the younger, and his left hand upon Manasseh's head, guiding his hands wittingly; for Manasseh was the firstborn.

15 And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day,

16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.

17 And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father's hand, to remove it from Ephraim's head unto Manasseh's head.

18 And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.

19 And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, (Manasseh)  and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother (Ephraim)  shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.

 

The phrase "multitude of nations" is melo ha goyim. Goyim is often translated as Gentiles. 

OT:4393 melo' (mel-o'); rarely melow' (mel-o'); or melow (Ezek 41:8), (mel-o'); from OT:4390; fulness (literally or figuratively):  KJV -  all along, all that is (there-) in, fill, (X that whereof ... was) full, fulness, [handfull, multitude. 

    Millo'. See OT:4407.

OT:1471 gowy (go'-ee); rarely (shortened) goy (go'-ee); apparently from the same root as OT:1465 (in the sense of massing); a foreign nation; hence, a Gentile; also (figuratively) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts: KJV - Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

Hence, blindness in part has happened unto Israel until the "melo ha goyim" which was the prophecy spoken over Ephraim. 

 

There is so much garbage here that it will take a long time to clean up what is misinterpreted. I will start with 2 things.

It does not matter if someone has a bit of DNA from the children of Israel/Jews. That does not make them Jewish. A person is either 100% Jewish or not Jewish at all. There is no such thing as 25% Jewish or 50% Jewish. In modern cultures, people measure what they are in percentages. In the Jewish culture, there are no percentages of being Jewish. Being Jewish is a linage, but not a DNA.  

The people who are dispersed and wanting to move to Israel as Jewish, are looked at for many differing things. One is, do they have cultural evidence. Second is a confirmation of a genome since if a group of people lack that genome, then they are not descended from the children of Israel.  For cultural, most people who are from the children of Israel continued to have a ritual physical circumcision.

In scripture, if a man who was descended from one of the tribes of Israel failed to be ritually circumcised, that man is cut off from the children of Israel. If that man has a son, and that man does not have his son circumcised ritually, the son is not a member of the tribes of Israel. They cease to be Jewish. If 5 generations later of living like non-Jews, and a person discovers they have a relative who was Jewish, that does not mean that person is Jewish. They have a Jewish relative but they, themselves are not Jewish. If that person wanted to be considered Jewish, they would have to convert because they are not Jewish. So, Jewish DNA means nothing. 

Now, for the word Goy. The word Goy does mean nation. Nation in scripture does not mean a country. Nation refers to a people group. I believe the closest modern term would be an Ethnic group. The children of Israel are a nation/goy in scripture. In biblical Hebrew, there is no word which means Gentile. When a nation/goy is talked about in the OT and that nation is not Israel, it is a Gentile nation. If Goy is plural, goyim, and the context shows that Israel is not included in the nations being mentioned, then the nations are not Israel/Gentile nations. So, to translate Goy or Goyim as Gentile(s), it has to be done by context since there is no word in biblical Hebrew for Gentile. At the same time, Goy does not mean heathen. Goy means nation/people group. For a translator to translate goy as heathen, they can only do so because the context implies that people group (goy) is heathen in their beliefs. 

While a concordance has valuable information, you can not translate based on a concordance. Hebrew is has a complex grammar which is not explained in a concordance, and translators must have a much more advanced understanding of Hebrew then using a concordance. A concordance shows all the words which a Hebrew word is translated into, but does not differentiate or explain why the translators chose those words. Saying the Hebrew word , Goy means Gentile, is wrong. It doesn't. Translators took some liberty based on the context to use an English word which does not exist in Hebrew.

Since Ephraim has been repeated as a point multiple times, this leads into Two House theology. Two House theology teaches that some, many or all Gentile Christians are not really Gentile because they are descendants of Ephraim. This is a major error as it means that becoming a Christian is based on linage. Gentiles Christians are really children of Israel from Ephraim who forgot who they were, and/or developed amnesia. Christians are called children of Abraham. A person who is a physical descendant of Abraham does not count but a person with faith like Abraham is counted. So Gentiles, without linage to Abraham are called children of Abraham by faith. 

[Esther4:14]

22 minutes ago, Qnts2 said:

There is so much garbage here that it will take a long time to clean up what is misinterpreted. I will start with 2 things.

It does not matter if someone has a bit of DNA from the children of Israel/Jews. That does not make them Jewish. A person is either 100% Jewish or not Jewish at all. There is no such thing as 25% Jewish or 50% Jewish. In modern cultures, people measure what they are in percentages. In the Jewish culture, there are no percentages of being Jewish. Being Jewish is a linage, but not a DNA.  

The people who are dispersed and wanting to move to Israel as Jewish, are looked at for many differing things. One is, do they have cultural evidence. Second is a confirmation of a genome since if a group of people lack that genome, then they are not descended from the children of Israel.  For cultural, most people who are from the children of Israel continued to have a ritual physical circumcision.

In scripture, if a man who was descended from one of the tribes of Israel failed to be ritually circumcised, that man is cut off from the children of Israel. If that man has a son, and that man does not have his son circumcised ritually, the son is not a member of the tribes of Israel. They cease to be Jewish. If 5 generations later of living like non-Jews, and a person discovers they have a relative who was Jewish, that does not mean that person is Jewish. They have a Jewish relative but they, themselves are not Jewish. If that person wanted to be considered Jewish, they would have to convert because they are not Jewish. So, Jewish DNA means nothing. 

Now, for the word Goy. The word Goy does mean nation. Nation in scripture does not mean a country. Nation refers to a people group. I believe the closest modern term would be an Ethnic group. The children of Israel are a nation/goy in scripture. In biblical Hebrew, there is no word which means Gentile. When a nation/goy is talked about in the OT and that nation is not Israel, it is a Gentile nation. If Goy is plural, goyim, and the context shows that Israel is not included in the nations being mentioned, then the nations are not Israel/Gentile nations. So, to translate Goy or Goyim as Gentile(s), it has to be done by context since there is no word in biblical Hebrew for Gentile. At the same time, Goy does not mean heathen. Goy means nation/people group. For a translator to translate goy as heathen, they can only do so because the context implies that people group (goy) is heathen in their beliefs. 

While a concordance has valuable information, you can not translate based on a concordance. Hebrew is has a complex grammar which is not explained in a concordance, and translators must have a much more advanced understanding of Hebrew then using a concordance. A concordance shows all the words which a Hebrew word is translated into, but does not differentiate or explain why the translators chose those words. Saying the Hebrew word , Goy means Gentile, is wrong. It doesn't. Translators took some liberty based on the context to use an English word which does not exist in Hebrew.

I find what you have to say on who is Jewish and who is not to be very racist and elitist.  What you express is a worldly recognition of descending from Israel when it is clear according to scripture that there are descendants of Israel who converted to Christianity in the 1st century who could still be considered a descendant of Abraham.  You may choose not to count them, and the present nation of Israel may not count them, but He might still count them and they could even be considered the remnant when they are called.  What I understand this to mean is that someone who identifies themselves as Jewish is basically saying, "My family has continued in disobedience of the commands of the Messiah ever since His death on the cross."  

The way you describe "being Jewish," is to leave no room even for the Jewish people to be blessed.  There is almost a pride to this description of descending from a nation that chose their genealogical record over an eternity with Christ, and which person do you assume within this present generation of descendants from such people is going to be raised up with the disposition of David.  

If someone were to be raised up to address this subject from the disposition of David, would not this person rebuke the entire generation of "Jewish" people who believe they are blessed for rejecting Christ throughout the centuries.  

The truth of the matter is that who God will call from the nation of Israel might be not be who the world would think He would call because the ones who call themselves Jews clearly do so in disobedience according to your definition.  

" But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart." (1 Samuel 16:7).  

Maybe these people aren't the ones He intends to inherit the land after all.  

" Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth" (Matthew 5:5).  

Technically, and I totally am aware that this has nothing to do with the opening post, and I do not plan to continue an off topic conversation either; but, if we talk about Abraham as the father of us all (Romans 4:16-17), it will be interesting to see who inherits the land.  My guess is that He will not draw racial lines the way the world is doing today.  

But, my guess is, in regard to the opening post, that changing the times and laws (Daniel 7:25) was a way to separate the church from the Jewish community or cut them off for accepting Christ as the Messiah.  Much like the Jewish community is still trying to do today it would seem.  However, I would always like to point out that each person is an individual child of God and I don't judge people individually based on religious affiliation.  But, on the whole, it is hard to deny that there is a still a desire to separate Christianity from its Hebraic roots.  That would be why I would suspect the two holidays land on different days.  

[Qnts2]

8 minutes ago, Esther4:14 said:

I find what you have to say on who is Jewish and who is not to be very racist and elitist.  What you express is a worldly recognition of descending from Israel when it is clear according to scripture that there are descendants of Israel who converted to Christianity in the 1st century who could still be considered a descendant of Abraham.  You may choose not to count them, and the present nation of Israel may not count them, but He might still count them and they could even be considered the remnant when they are called.  What I understand this to mean is that someone who identifies themselves as Jewish is basically saying, "My family has continued in disobedience of the commands of the Messiah ever since His death on the cross."  

The way you describe "being Jewish," is to leave no room even for the Jewish people to be blessed.  There is almost a pride to this description of descending from a nation that chose their genealogical record over an eternity with Christ, and which person do you assume within this present generation of descendants from such people is going to be raised up with the disposition of David.  

If someone were to be raised up to address this subject from the disposition of David, would not this person rebuke the entire generation of "Jewish" people who believe they are blessed for rejecting Christ throughout the centuries.  

The truth of the matter is that who God will call from the nation of Israel might be not be who the world would think He would call because the ones who call themselves Jews clearly do so in disobedience according to your definition.  

" But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart." (1 Samuel 16:7).  

Maybe these people aren't the ones He intends to inherit the land after all.  

" Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth" (Matthew 5:5).  

Technically, and I totally am aware that this has nothing to do with the opening post, and I do not plan to continue an off topic conversation either; but, if we talk about Abraham as the father of us all (Romans 4:16-17), it will be interesting to see who inherits the land.  My guess is that He will not draw racial lines the way the world is doing today.  

But, my guess is, in regard to the opening post, that changing the times and laws (Daniel 7:25) was a way to separate the church from the Jewish community or cut them off for accepting Christ as the Messiah.  Much like the Jewish community is still trying to do today it would seem.  However, I would always like to point out that each person is an individual child of God and I don't judge people individually based on religious affiliation.  But, on the whole, it is hard to deny that there is a still a desire to separate Christianity from its Hebraic roots.  That would be why I would suspect the two holidays land on different days.  

I think you are reading a lot of stuff into what I wrote and making a lot of false assumptions and accusations.

 

[Qnts2]

For anyone interested, there are several papers showing the errors of Two House theology. I am putting in a link to two of them. 

http://www.mjaa.org/site/DocServer/EphraimiteError.pdf?docID=141

The first Two House error discussed is the misunderstanding of the Hebrew word 'Goy'.

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Articles/Two_House/two_house.html

 

[Paradigm]

3 hours ago, Qnts2 said:

There is so much garbage here that it will take a long time to clean up what is misinterpreted. I will start with 2 things.

In the first section below are the only statements that I made in the post. Most of it was just showing what Hebrew words were used in one passage and the Strong's definitions. The rest was just scripture. For now on, it will be helpful if you simply quote a specific statement by me or whoever else and then say something like "This is wrong and here are two or three witnesses from scripture that confirm my position. "

So, is the statement that made saying that I agreed with most of what you wrote in a previous post false?

Or is my question in which I wondered how many people have Israelite DNA but are unaware of it, false?

Or is it false that Ephraim was the head of the House of Israel?

Or is it false that he was mixed among the nations?

Is it false that in Romans 11 Paul is quoting from Gen 48?

Is it false that the Hosea passage I quoted is discussing Judah and Israel?

Is it false that Paul quotes from this passage in Hosea in Romans 9? 

Those are the only statements that I made as far as I know other than quoting scripture. 

4 hours ago, Paradigm said:

• Yes, I agree with most of what you have written there.
• How many folks have DNA of one of the tribes of Israel, and yet are unaware of it? 
• Ephraim was the head of the House of Israel. Because Israel became mixed among the nations.
• The context of the above passage is Judah and Isreal. Though he will have mercy on Judah, Israel would cease to be a kingdom for a time. Israel (The Northern House) would become "No my people" for a time. Eventually they will be gathered and called the sons of the Living God. This passage is what Paul quotes from in Romans

 

• I thought of another passage that is interesting in regards to this subject as well:
• Paul is referring here to Genesis 48.

 

• The phrase "multitude of nations" is melo ha goyim. Goyim is often translated as Gentiles. 
• OT:4393 melo' (mel-o'); rarely melow' (mel-o'); or melow (Ezek 41:8), (mel-o'); from OT:4390; fulness (literally or figuratively):  KJV -  all along, all that is (there-) in, fill, (X that whereof ... was) full,fulness, [handfull, multitude.     Millo'. See OT:4407.

 

• OT:1471 gowy (go'-ee); rarely (shortened) goy (go'-ee); apparently from the same root as OT:1465 (in the sense of massing); a foreign nation; hence, a Gentile; also (figuratively) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts: KJV - Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

 

• Hence, blindness in part has happened unto Israel until the "melo ha goyim" which was the prophecy spoken over Ephraim. 

 

3 hours ago, Qnts2 said:

It does not matter if someone has a bit of DNA from the children of Israel/Jews. That does not make them Jewish.

I merely asked how many people might have Israelite DNA because you discussed the subject. My question was based upon your statement below. If it does not matter if they have a bit of Israelite DNA, then why did you bring it up?

6 hours ago, Qnts2 said:

Since the priesthood lived with each tribe, a certain percentage would be from the priesthood linage. Israel has found a genetic marker and tests the people to see if they have the 'DNA'. Among those returning are the B'nei Menashe (Mannasseh which is the half tribe descendants or sons of Joseph).  

 

3 hours ago, Qnts2 said:

t does not matter if someone has a bit of DNA from the children of Israel/Jews. That does not make them Jewish. A person is either 100% Jewish or not Jewish at all. There is no such thing as 25% Jewish or 50% Jewish. In modern cultures, people measure what they are in percentages. In the Jewish culture, there are no percentages of being Jewish. Being Jewish is a linage, but not a DNA.  

You are the one that brought up DNA in regards to this subject. Are you debating against yourself or someone else on here? 

So, based upon your assessment of the way you determine who or what is Jewish, are all of the people in Messiah's genealogy 100% or not at all? 

 

3 hours ago, Qnts2 said:

Since Ephraim has been repeated as a point multiple times, this leads into Two House theology

As far as I can see I mentioned the name Ephraim one time. The scripture repeats the name Ephraim throughout, what theology does that lead to based upon your reasoning? I don't remember explaining my theology much less giving it a label. 

[SINNERSAVED]

On ‎3‎/‎31‎/‎2016 at 4:06 PM, Paradigm said:

Ezra, I showed from scripture that the Almighty said that "These are my feasts." (Lev 23) He is the one that invented them, not the Jews.

I quoted a plethora of passages using words such as forever and everlasting regarding the feasts. Are all of those verses untrue? 

I have also shown references to Paul keeping feasts in the NT and making the statement "Therefore let us keep the feast." (1 Cor 5) I have shown him and others keeping the Sabbath and attending Synagogue. (All through Acts by the way)

I have also shown the New Moons, Sabbath and Feasts in the future. Does it make any sense that the Most High said to do these things forever many times, then abolish them so that they should not be kept and then bring them back and demand that people keep them in the future? (Is 66, Zec 14)

I have listed many scriptures that make it clear that many of these things are forever. As I have said, I have shown also these things in the NT as well. Yet I don't recall you citing much scripture to establish your points. 

it is hard sometimes, when there is solid factual proof , that some will not want to hear it , for it goes against what they have believed  in their minds, and so , it is exactly what I said,?

and I understand what you are saying, and that it makes perfect sense, and so , it is tough at times , but we can only just love people ,and show them where they faults lie, and tell them with compassion, for its not about who is smarter, and more seasoned in scripture, but who is bringing the truth , for the truth is of God, and we see, that scripture, interprets scripture, and you have proven what I believe is a excellent statement, well done, and blessings to you

shalom brother,

you have done well, to explain?

[Qnts2]

2 hours ago, Paradigm said:

In the first section below are the only statements that I made in the post. Most of it was just showing what Hebrew words were used in one passage and the Strong's definitions. The rest was just scripture. For now on, it will be helpful if you simply quote a specific statement by me or whoever else and then say something like "This is wrong and here are two or three witnesses from scripture that confirm my position. "

So, is the statement that made saying that I agreed with most of what you wrote in a previous post false?

Or is my question in which I wondered how many people have Israelite DNA but are unaware of it, false?

Or is it false that Ephraim was the head of the House of Israel?

Or is it false that he was mixed among the nations?

Is it false that in Romans 11 Paul is quoting from Gen 48?

Is it false that the Hosea passage I quoted is discussing Judah and Israel?

Is it false that Paul quotes from this passage in Hosea in Romans 9? 

Those are the only statements that I made as far as I know other than quoting scripture. 

 

I merely asked how many people might have Israelite DNA because you discussed the subject. My question was based upon your statement below. If it does not matter if they have a bit of Israelite DNA, then why did you bring it up?

 

You are the one that brought up DNA in regards to this subject. Are you debating against yourself or someone else on here? 

So, based upon your assessment of the way you determine who or what is Jewish, are all of the people in Messiah's genealogy 100% or not at all? 

 

As far as I can see I mentioned the name Ephraim one time. The scripture repeats the name Ephraim throughout, what theology does that lead to based upon your reasoning? I don't remember explaining my theology much less giving it a label. 

Obviously, you are not reading what I write. I said I was only going to respond to two statements at that time because the rest was going to take too long. And here, you complain because I did not respond to all that you wrote. How rude and ridiculous.  

Get it straight. I said it does not matter about DNA. You had my answer. Many groups of people have claimed to be Jewish when they are not Jewish. Some people in England claim to be children of Israel based on British Israelism but the lack of the Cohanim hapliotype has proven it to be a false claim. Claiming to be Israel is a very strange thing among some who are not Israel. There are groups who claim to be Israel all over the world. There is a group called British Israelism, some who say they are the real Jews but the Jews in Israel are imposters and are actually Khazars. There are some who claim to be Israel who claim that the Jews in Israel are not real Jews but are actually caucasians. There is another group which claims the Jews in Israel are false because the Jews in Israel are middle eastern but real Jews are caucasian. There is a group called Black Hebrew/Israelites who deny the Jewish people are Jewish because the real Jewish people are not black. 

So when a group claims to be children of Israel of the so called lost tribes, tests are done to show if it is impossible. If the possibility is not dismissed, then further factors are looked at to see if it could be true. I listed those factors and said that groups have been brought back to Israel as Jewish people. DNA alone means nothing. Do a little reading about the returning people from India, Africa and China.

Just as a side note, my father was in China and met some people who claimed to be children of Israel. They had a history of being in China for a well over a thousand of years and had in their possession some very old Hebrew manuscripts that were passed down, and scribed for copies. They were very poor and my father assisted them with material to make clothes to sell. Their history has since been recorded and you can look them up as the Kaifeng Jews (named from the area they lived in).

I mentioned B'nai Menashe. etc.

By the way, I stated that 100% Jewish is not the way modern westerners calculate percentages. You are using western view of percentages. If a person does not say they are Jewish, but gives a percentage Jewish, that means they are not Jewish at all. They might have Jewish ancestors but they are not Jewish. Being Jewish requires 100% identification as a member of the Jewish people, ritually circumcised, etc. There is no such thing as a half Jew. A half Jew has a Jewish parent, but a half Jew is not Jewish at all as they are not 100% identified as Jewish.

Since you brought up Ephraim,  and used scriptures used by Two House, Ephraimites, which mistranslates Hebrew, I posted papers against the Ephraimite error, which you are making. You can not translate by concordance. You did not just quote the concordance but you made false assumptions based on the concordance as concordances do not deal with the actual grammar. You used the concordance to say that goy means Gentile. Goy does not mean Gentile, goy means nation.  That is a common error made by those who do not know Hebrew grammar in order to promote the Ephraimite false doctrine.    

I asked you if you were two house, and you did not answer, but proceeded to give Two House/Ephraimite arguments so I responded to that error.  Do you believe you are a child of Israel? If so, are either of your parents Jewish?