Messiah

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, kwikphilly said:

No offense taken Joline,,,,,,,,,I'm not sure what you are talking about by referring to Brother Ezra? In all the years I've known him & we've had many discussions I never recall him categorizing any specific "group" in a derogatory manner & it is not something he would partake in anyway.......

   Seems no one grasped what I'm talking about really,,,,in any event,back on Topic,,,,,,,& I am not offended & also ,I don't think you need to worry about how anyone discusses the "they's" & "those" if you are not part of it,,,,,,,,,,God Bless you & Peace to you as well,Praise Jesus!

                                                                                                          With love-in Christ,Kwik

Ok, I thought you were responding to Ezra's post. I am clueless here LOL

Blessings

[Ezra]

3 hours ago, Joline said:

By golly Ezra............I think we just might be close here. But not quite sure. Are you saying the tree is Christs kingdom?

Since I am not a Messianic, I am only interested in what Scripture reveals. What Paul is teaching  Gentile Christians (primarily) is that (a) they must not be high-minded in comparing themselves to Jews and (b) that in spite of the disobedience and rebellion of Jews since the coming of Christ, God has not forgotten His covenants with Abraham and David. Yet, the Jews have been blinded because of their rejection of Christ, and it is only by God's grace that today many are turning to Christ.  Once the Church is completed ("the fulness of the Gentiles") God will resume His dealings with Israel at the Second Coming of Christ.

As to your question, yes, the "good olive tree" can be equated to the Kingdom of God as represented by the Church (redeemed Jews and Gentiles in one Body).  The Messianics have refused to accept what God has taught us through Paul -- that at the present time God sees ABSOLUTELY NO DISTINCTION between Jew and Gentile, and that the Old Covenant cannot be re-introduced to the Church on a whim.  The epistle to the Hebrews has been simply ignored or re-interpreted.

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Ezra said:

,Since I am not a Messianic, I am only interested in what Scripture reveals. What Paul is teaching  Gentile Christians (primarily) is that (a) they must not be high-minded in comparing themselves to Jews and (b) that in spite of the disobedience and rebellion of Jews since the coming of Christ, God has not forgotten His covenants with Abraham and David. Yet, the Jews have been blinded because of their rejection of Christ, and it is only by God's grace that today many are turning to Christ.  Once the Church is completed ("the fulness of the Gentiles") God will resume His dealings with Israel at the Second Coming of Christ.

As to your question, yes, the "good olive tree" can be equated to the Kingdom of God as represented by the Church (redeemed Jews and Gentiles in one Body).  The Messianics have refused to accept what God has taught us through Paul -- that at the present time God sees ABSOLUTELY NO DISTINCTION between Jew and Gentile, and that the Old Covenant cannot be re-introduced to the Church on a whim.  The epistle to the Hebrews has been simply ignored or re-interpreted.

 

We do agree. It is by Gods grace that anyone turns to Christ, Jew or Gentile. It makes no difference, we all have sinned.

[Qnts2]

2 hours ago, Ezra said:

Since I am not a Messianic, I am only interested in what Scripture reveals. What Paul is teaching  Gentile Christians (primarily) is that (a) they must not be high-minded in comparing themselves to Jews and (b) that in spite of the disobedience and rebellion of Jews since the coming of Christ, God has not forgotten His covenants with Abraham and David. Yet, the Jews have been blinded because of their rejection of Christ, and it is only by God's grace that today many are turning to Christ.  Once the Church is completed ("the fulness of the Gentiles") God will resume His dealings with Israel at the Second Coming of Christ.

As to your question, yes, the "good olive tree" can be equated to the Kingdom of God as represented by the Church (redeemed Jews and Gentiles in one Body).  The Messianics have refused to accept what God has taught us through Paul -- that at the present time God sees ABSOLUTELY NO DISTINCTION between Jew and Gentile, and that the Old Covenant cannot be re-introduced to the Church on a whim.  The epistle to the Hebrews has been simply ignored or re-interpreted.

 

Actually, Messianic Judaism teaches the believing Jews and Gentiles are one body. However, Messianic Judaism teaches that in the current body, there are Jews and Gentiles and that distinction which continues, although God does not see one as superior to the other. The way of salvation is the same for Jews and Gentiles. God equally loves and accepts as His, Jew and Gentile believers equally. In the NT, it says that the circumcised should be be uncircumcised (Jews do not become Gentiles) and uncircumcised should not be circumcised (Gentiles do not need to become Jews).

1 Cor 7:17Only, as the Lord has assigned to each one, as God has called each, in this manner let him walk. And so I direct in all the churches. ¹⁸ Was any man called when he was already circumcised? He is not to become uncircumcised. Has anyone been called in uncircumcision? He is not to be circumcised. ¹⁹ Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God. ²⁰ Each man must remain in that ^[k]condition in which he was called.

Messianic Judaism does not try to re-introduce the Mosaic covenant to the Gentiles and believes the Mosaic covenant was never given to the Gentiles. However, Messianic Judaism does see the high holy days as brought forward into the New Covenant as New Covenant holidays in remembrance of Jesus.

The book of Hebrews is primarily about Jewish believers who have sinned, and returned to the Temple to do the traditional sacrifices for sin. The book explains that Jesus sacrifice is sufficient and there is no more sacrifice needed for forgiveness of sin. 

[Ezra]

1 minute ago, Qnts2 said:

Actually, Messianic Judaism teaches the believing Jews and Gentiles are one body. However, Messianic Judaism teaches that in the current body, there are Jews and Gentiles and that distinction which continues, although God does not see one as superior to the other.

Well therein lies the problem. God says no distinctions whatsoever, but men say some distinctions will be maintained.  Erecting walls which Christ tore down at the Cross.

For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. For the body is not one member, but many. (1 Cor 12:12-14)

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.  And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Gal 3:26-29)

[Qnts2]

3 minutes ago, Ezra said:

Well therein lies the problem. God says no distinctions whatsoever, but men say some distinctions will be maintained.  Erecting walls which Christ tore down at the Cross.

For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. For the body is not one member, but many. (1 Cor 12:12-14)

 

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.  And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Gal 3:26-29)

 

1 cor 12:12-14 is in agreement with what I said. We are one body in Jesus, and are baptized by one Spirit, whether Jews or Gentile. I also see the mention of Jews and Gentiles mentioned.

For Gal 3:26-29, I simply ask one question. Are there still male and female physically?

I do not find Messianic Judaism erecting walls. However, I do find some Christian churches erecting walls denying Jewish people being Jewish. When I first entered a church, I remember the comments. One person wanted to know how a Jew could be in their church, because the Jews killed Jesus. Another questioned me saying I was Jewish and told me I was not allowed to be Jewish anymore. My point is, the church is made up of Jews and Gentiles, male and female, and we are all one in Jesus.

[kwikphilly]

All in agreement,Praise the Lord,,,,,,,now that's what I call "reasoning together",,,,,,,,,,,,,HALLELUYAH!            Love,Kwik

[Guest]

17 hours ago, Ezra said:

Well therein lies the problem. God says no distinctions whatsoever, but men say some distinctions will be maintained.  Erecting walls which Christ tore down at the Cross.

For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. For the body is not one member, but many. (1 Cor 12:12-14)

 

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.  And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Gal 3:26-29)

7 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

All in agreement,Praise the Lord,,,,,,,now that's what I call "reasoning together",,,,,,,,,,,,,HALLELUYAH!            Love,Kwik

 

I am not sure there is complete agreement here. It appears there is a question (posed to Ezra) concerning Gal 3:26-29. Which specifically or distinctly speaks of the heirs of Abraham's seed, (spoken of in Genesis)?

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Joline,,,,

     I'm not seeing it?Ezra is saying although there SHOULD NOT be,there will be amongst men(man,people).,,,,,,,,Are you saying God makes a distinction wherein one is more HIS than the other,or what are you saying-lol    I believe I actually lost my train of thought,,,,,,,,,that's funny,huh?

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, kwikphilly said:

Blessings Joline,,,,

     I'm not seeing it?Ezra is saying although there SHOULD NOT be,there will be amongst men(man,people).,,,,,,,,Are you saying God makes a distinction wherein one is more HIS than the other,or what are you saying-lol    I believe I actually lost my train of thought,,,,,,,,,that's funny,huh?

Oh boy! Here we go, you can't keep your train of thought, and me, I have a hard time getting peoples thoughts! What a pair huh?

But actually on a more serious note, I am not expressing my understanding of the texts (plural) into this at all. Even though I do have them. I am looking at the exchange between Ezra and qnts.

I do not see agreement between the two. Only partial agreement. As it appears there may be a question concerning Galatians 3:26-29, which passage speaks concerning being heirs as Abrahams seed. Qnts asked Ezra a question concerning male and female in that passage.

At least that is how it appears to me.