post Posted June 12, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,045 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 615 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/09/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/03/1976 Share Posted June 12, 2016 1 hour ago, Ezra said: Your point being? The coming of Christ was already embedded in Genesis 3:15. When we examine any Scripture, it must always be in the light of Christ and His finished work. So we do not discuss God's command to Adam and its consequences without including the book of Revelation. We do not discuss Abel without the book of Hebrews. We do not discuss Abraham without the book of Romans. this is a benefit God has granted us that so many others never had. mysteries of godliness were revealed and are being revealed in us: Christ in us. when He came, and as the Spirit moved in and through His apostles after He was taken up, a great light shone that illuminated the prophets and the law that had come before Him. these things were all written and pointed to Him, but still He was not the Messiah they expected. we can see clearly now looking backwards ((mmm that 20/20 hindsight)) things like the inclusion of the Gentiles, the basis of grace, the Lamb that should offer Himself and be also both King and High Priest -- but these things were hidden. righteous men, fully believing the scriptures and trusting God, did not see these things. their understanding changed as new knowledge was revealed to them. even though we have all these scriptures, and we have a foretaste of the Spirit within us to teach us and guide us, we still see only dimly. we have understanding only in part, and knowledge only in part. when the fullness of His redemption is revealed, our eyes will be brightened even more, and our understanding will change. we will receive more knowledge, and we will see that our understanding was previously quite limited. don't we already see this as the years go by? have you read the Bible? how many times? don't you read it again, maybe for the 3rd or 10th or the 20th or even the hundredth time, and see things that you used to understand as mere dry facts as metaphors for some holy truth? don't you see every year, something you thought was substance, turning out to be a shadow after all, pointing towards an even more glorious facet of the gospel? don't we look back on our lives, and see that things we could not comprehend at all while they occurred were working together for our good? what we think we "know" and what we think is "meat" may turn out to be only an inkling, and to be only sweet milk. but i know one thing for certain: that Jesus is the Son of God, who came to earth to be born of flesh, who died for the atonement and sanctification for those who believe on Him, and was raised again, and ascended to heaven to prepare a place for me. that He will return again to gather me up to Himself, and that eternal life is to know Him. what that means i will spend eternity learning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
post Posted June 12, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,045 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 615 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/09/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/03/1976 Share Posted June 12, 2016 1 hour ago, Ezra said: We do not discuss Abel without the book of Hebrews. We do not discuss Abraham without the book of Romans. we do not discuss Matthew 1:8 without 2 Chronicles 22-26. and that does not make us disbelieve Matthew -- it enlightens our minds because we trust the scripture, and our understanding is broadened, and we learn something from this, and see other things in new light. at least that's how it's supposed to work, i think (!) - but some people are blinded when they see things like this, and others, incredulous. Look whose fan is in his hands Upon the ground of sifting Instruments with teeth A place for the called for We call it the floor into the air, In this time of threshing- D.E.E., 'The Threshing Floor'His winnowing fork is in His hand to clear His threshing floor and to gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire. - John Baptist (Matthew 3:12) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
post Posted June 12, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,045 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 615 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/09/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/03/1976 Share Posted June 12, 2016 *sigh* we shouldn't discuss Matthew 11:14 without Malachi 4:5 either, but apparently certain people ((for whatever reason)) think there should be a great divide maintained between these two verses. i suspect they're trying to preserve something they hold dear from possibly being exploded, but i'm probably wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FresnoJoe Posted June 12, 2016 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 207 Topic Count: 60 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,651 Content Per Day: 1.17 Reputation: 5,761 Days Won: 4 Joined: 01/31/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/04/1943 Share Posted June 12, 2016 3 hours ago, post said: i think you are thinking about what happened next.... about the whole story of this incident, not about what i quoted in particular.... nothing wrong with that - it's part of the whole counsel of God, and it does have bearing on the topic as a whole, that the Creator has power to give life.... but it's not to do with these particulars; these details were included, and i am sure the details are not without purpose, but also for our instruction in righteousness.... what we ought to glean from this? oh i have some ideas.... i'd like to see what those with understanding come up with, that's all.... Amen~! Quote every scripture is profitable for instruction, edification and for gaining wisdom and insight. what can we learn from this? Jesus answered, “Are there not twelve hours in the day? If anyone walks in the day, he does not stumble, because he sees the light of this world. But if anyone walks in the night, he stumbles, because the light is not in him.” After saying these things, he said to them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I go to awaken him.” The disciples said to him, “Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover.” Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that he meant taking rest in sleep. Then Jesus told them plainly, “Lazarus has died, and for your sake I am glad that I was not there, so that you may believe. But let us go to him.”(John 11:9-15) Jesus And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John 1:14 Is LORD For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6 ~ PS: Love To See You On Worthy Always Enjoy Reading Your Provocative Posts Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity! It is like the precious ointment upon the head, that ran down upon the beard, even Aaron's beard: that went down to the skirts of his garments; As the dew of Hermon, and as the dew that descended upon the mountains of Zion: for there the LORD commanded the blessing, even life for evermore. Psalms 133 Always Point To Jesus Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. John 5:39 And Keep On Keeping On Post Early Post Often Be Blessed Beloved Love, Your Brother Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 4 hours ago, post said: this is a benefit God has granted us that so many others never had. mysteries of godliness were revealed and are being revealed in us: Christ in us. when He came, and as the Spirit moved in and through His apostles after He was taken up, a great light shone that illuminated the prophets and the law that had come before Him. these things were all written and pointed to Him, but still He was not the Messiah they expected. we can see clearly now looking backwards ((mmm that 20/20 hindsight)) things like the inclusion of the Gentiles, the basis of grace, the Lamb that should offer Himself and be also both King and High Priest -- but these things were hidden. righteous men, fully believing the scriptures and trusting God, did not see these things. their understanding changed as new knowledge was revealed to them. even though we have all these scriptures, and we have a foretaste of the Spirit within us to teach us and guide us, we still see only dimly. we have understanding only in part, and knowledge only in part. when the fullness of His redemption is revealed, our eyes will be brightened even more, and our understanding will change. we will receive more knowledge, and we will see that our understanding was previously quite limited. don't we already see this as the years go by? have you read the Bible? how many times? don't you read it again, maybe for the 3rd or 10th or the 20th or even the hundredth time, and see things that you used to understand as mere dry facts as metaphors for some holy truth? don't you see every year, something you thought was substance, turning out to be a shadow after all, pointing towards an even more glorious facet of the gospel? don't we look back on our lives, and see that things we could not comprehend at all while they occurred were working together for our good? what we think we "know" and what we think is "meat" may turn out to be only an inkling, and to be only sweet milk. but i know one thing for certain: that Jesus is the Son of God, who came to earth to be born of flesh, who died for the atonement and sanctification for those who believe on Him, and was raised again, and ascended to heaven to prepare a place for me. that He will return again to gather me up to Himself, and that eternal life is to know Him. what that means i will spend eternity learning In terms of our spiritual and revelatory understanding of Scripture, what you are saying is 100% correct. There a progressive unfolding of the plan and purposes of God in the Bible starting with Adam and going through Revelation. None of that is in dispute. But in Genesis 1, what we have is a historical narrative. That doesn't mean that our understanding of it cannot be enhanced theologically. I posted a thread some time back on how each of the seven days of Genesis 1 and 2 point to 7 spiritual characteristics of our relationship with God as "New Creations" in Christ. That approach did not discard the plain, ordinary sense of the text. It did not contradict God's claim that He created the Earth in six literal days. Even if our understanding of the text grows, it doesn't contradict or discard the plain, ordinary sense. That's part of God's revelation too and we need to stop thinking that our understanding of the text needs to change. It doesn't. It may be enhanced, it may be added to, but the historical core of the text will not change and doesn't need to. New information we learn later should, if it comes from God, re-enforce what we already know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
post Posted June 12, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,045 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 615 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/09/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/03/1976 Share Posted June 12, 2016 5 hours ago, FresnoJoe said: PS: Love To See You On Worthy Always Enjoy Reading Your Provocative Posts Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity! It is like the precious ointment upon the head, that ran down upon the beard, even Aaron's beard: that went down to the skirts of his garments; As the dew of Hermon, and as the dew that descended upon the mountains of Zion: for there the LORD commanded the blessing, even life for evermore. Psalms 133 Always Point To Jesus Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. John 5:39 And Keep On Keeping On Post Early Post Often Be Blessed Beloved into the air Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
post Posted June 12, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,045 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 615 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/09/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/03/1976 Share Posted June 12, 2016 (edited) Every valley shall be raised up, every mountain and hill made low; the rough ground shall become level, the rugged places a plain.(Isaiah 40:4) As it is written in the book of the words of Isaiah the prophet(Luke 3:4) but the earth herself was not smoothed out. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I will lead the blind by ways they have not known, along unfamiliar paths I will guide them; I will turn the darkness into light before them and make the rough places smooth. These are the things I will do; I will not forsake them.(Isaiah 42:16) and He has, and does -For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord(Ephesians 5:8)So we do not lose heart. Though our outer self is wasting away, our inner self is being renewed day by day. For this light momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison, as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal.(2 Corinthians 4:16-18)Truly I tell you, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in their heart but believes that what they say will happen, it will be done for them.(Mark 11:23)On that day the deaf will hear words of a book, And out of their gloom and darkness the eyes of the blind will see.(Isaiah 29:18) as it is written: "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that could not see and ears that could not hear, to this very day."(Romans 11:8)In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guaranteed of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.(Ephesians 1:13-14) Edited June 13, 2016 by post fixed a typo: changed Isaiah 29:8 to 18, as it should have been. whoops! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Thallasa Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 18 hours ago, post said: not at all, not rude or anything & no need to apologize! i didn't understand you correctly - and you corrected me Whoever heeds discipline shows the way to life, but whoever ignores correction leads others astray.(Proverbs 10:17) i'm just sorry i couldn't give you a better answer - it's not something i've given much thought to. I agree about the dogmatic , and some think that if one disagrees on certain biblical things , especially in the O.T. it puts the whole revelation of God into question . But I think it is through what I call our hearts/head, that we know Jesus Christ and who He is , but thatlater God likes us in discussion and questioning ,to find out more about Him and His science ,and to teach us how to 'hear' one another and discuss . After all Matthew ,my favourite apostle ,tells us, that all the books in the world could not contain all that Jesus taught them , (and which no doubt they could but dimly understand ,if at all ). Only over time and with a devotion to the truth and the gift of the Holy Spiri t, does the rest unfold . Some want a neat story which requires little input from them, as in their hearts they are not so sure ,but they need to have faith in God's bigger picture .. FAITH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 11 hours ago, post said: *sigh* we shouldn't discuss Matthew 11:14 without Malachi 4:5 either, but apparently certain people ((for whatever reason)) think there should be a great divide maintained between these two verses. i suspect they're trying to preserve something they hold dear from possibly being exploded, but i'm probably wrong. We all die in Adam.......................................... 13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Ro 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. 1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 15 hours ago, post said: *sigh* we shouldn't discuss Matthew 11:14 without Malachi 4:5 either, but apparently certain people ((for whatever reason)) think there should be a great divide maintained between these two verses. i suspect they're trying to preserve something they hold dear from possibly being exploded, but i'm probably wrong. The two are not related. The Bible doesn't link the two. You are creating a superficial link that simply doesn't exist. Malachi 4:5 is fulfilled in the future and applies to the Tribulation period, which is "the great and terrible day of the Lord." To try and link the ministry of John the Baptist during the first advent of Jesus with Malachi 4:5 is not an accurate approach to the text. The ministry of John the Bapist IS foretold in Malachi, but it is not foretold in Malachi 4:5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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