Your closest friendnt Posted May 29, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,855 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,761 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 29, 2016 10 minutes ago, Ezra said: Not sure what you mean by "the grave came up". Kindly clarify. As to never being separated we are told that (1) Christ is in us -- Christ in you the hope of glory (Col 1:27) (2) we are in Him -- through the baptism BY the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 12:13), and (3) nothing can separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord (Rom 8:30). Christians are literally joined to Christ. What adds further clarity to this is John 11:25,26: Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? This tells us that while our bodies may die physically, we – the individual souls and spirits – will never die, since we have received the gift of eternal life. Thank you, bless you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophet Cam Posted May 30, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 151 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 84 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/12/1972 Share Posted May 30, 2016 Geese you guys are slow. The dead in Christ rise first! Read the word... This is an amazing mystery which happens during the rapture. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 1 Thessalonians 4:16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted June 2, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.80 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 2, 2016 Question: "Who are the dead in Christ in 1 Thessalonians 4:16?" Answer: Before identifying the “dead in Christ,” we should note the context in which this phrase is found. The immediate context is 1 Thessalonians 4:13–18, which deals with the question of what will happen at the return of the Lord Jesus. Paul’s readers were concerned that when Christ returns, those who have died prior to then would somehow miss out. The primary purpose of this passage is to comfort those believers who have lost believing loved ones. The message of this passage is a message of hope. Christians have hope that unbelievers do not have when they lose loved ones. There is hope beyond the grave for Christians, and part of that hope is that, at the return of Christ, those who have already died “will rise first.” After that, Christians who are still alive will be transformed. Both groups will be “caught up” and will meet the Lord in the air. Paul closes this section with an admonition to encourage others with this hope. In this passage, Paul uses the common euphemism of sleep to refer to those who have died in Christ, i.e., believers. Paul wants to comfort his readers that those Christians who have died prior to the return of Christ will not miss out on anything. That is why he opens this section by saying, “But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope” (v. 13). So to answer the question, the dead in Christ are those believers who have died prior to the second coming of Christ. (Note, whether 1 Thessalonians 4 is referring to the second coming or the rapture is a matter of debate.) Believers, whether dead or alive, belong to Christ. We get similar language from the apostle in his first letter to the Corinthians when he writes, “But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ” (1 Corinthians 15:23). The dead in Christ applies not only to Paul’s original audience, but to all believers who have died in what can be termed the “inter-advental” period, or the time between the first and second comings of Christ. Another question that may come up in this context is what happens to believers when they die? Certainly, Paul uses sleep to refer to their state, but does this mean that believers experience (for lack of a better word) an unconscious sleep-like state until the future resurrection? Those who advocate this position, called soul sleep, base it on passages such as 1 Thessalonians 4:13–18. But it should be noted that “sleep” as used here is euphemistic. It is not meant to convey actual sleep. In fact, the experience of the believer after death and before the end of the age when Christ returns is conscious, blissful communion with the Lord. Paul hints at this in 2 Corinthians 5:6–8 and Philippians 1:23. At death, the body lies in repose in the grave awaiting the resurrection of the last day, but the soul goes to be at home with the Lord. This is the doctrine of the intermediate state. Believers experience in a provisional sense the rewards that await them in heaven, while unbelievers experience a taste of their eternal torment in hell (Luke 16:19–31). http://www.gotquestions.org/dead-in-Christ.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted June 2, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,855 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,761 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 2, 2016 J 1 hour ago, bopeep1909 said: Question: "Who are the dead in Christ in 1 Thessalonians 4:16?" Answer: Before identifying the “dead in Christ,” we should note the context in which this phrase is found. The immediate context is 1 Thessalonians 4:13–18, which deals with the question of what will happen at the return of the Lord Jesus. Paul’s readers were concerned that when Christ returns, those who have died prior to then would somehow miss out. The primary purpose of this passage is to comfort those believers who have lost believing loved ones. The message of this passage is a message of hope. Christians have hope that unbelievers do not have when they lose loved ones. There is hope beyond the grave for Christians, and part of that hope is that, at the return of Christ, those who have already died “will rise first.” After that, Christians who are still alive will be transformed. Both groups will be “caught up” and will meet the Lord in the air. Paul closes this section with an admonition to encourage others with this hope. In this passage, Paul uses the common euphemism of sleep to refer to those who have died in Christ, i.e., believers. Paul wants to comfort his readers that those Christians who have died prior to the return of Christ will not miss out on anything. That is why he opens this section by saying, “But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope” (v. 13). So to answer the question, the dead in Christ are those believers who have died prior to the second coming of Christ. (Note, whether 1 Thessalonians 4 is referring to the second coming or the rapture is a matter of debate.) Believers, whether dead or alive, belong to Christ. We get similar language from the apostle in his first letter to the Corinthians when he writes, “But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ” (1 Corinthians 15:23). The dead in Christ applies not only to Paul’s original audience, but to all believers who have died in what can be termed the “inter-advental” period, or the time between the first and second comings of Christ. Another question that may come up in this context is what happens to believers when they die? Certainly, Paul uses sleep to refer to their state, but does this mean that believers experience (for lack of a better word) an unconscious sleep-like state until the future resurrection? Those who advocate this position, called soul sleep, base it on passages such as 1 Thessalonians 4:13–18. But it should be noted that “sleep” as used here is euphemistic. It is not meant to convey actual sleep. In fact, the experience of the believer after death and before the end of the age when Christ returns is conscious, blissful communion with the Lord. Paul hints at this in 2 Corinthians 5:6–8 and Philippians 1:23. At death, the body lies in repose in the grave awaiting the resurrection of the last day, but the soul goes to be at home with the Lord. This is the doctrine of the intermediate state. Believers experience in a provisional sense the rewards that await them in heaven, while unbelievers experience a taste of their eternal torment in hell (Luke 16:19–31). http://www.gotquestions.org/dead-in-Christ.html I don't want to follow the comments above word for word, or sentence by sentence, or principal by principal. It would better if we collect all relevant information in this matter and not only from Paul post this statement to see if he still holds to this understanding, or the Holy Spirit has revealed a better insite in this matter, that is different from his statements to the Thessalonians in the past. And what the other disciples have taught in this matter, and should we also considare if our Lord Jesus has made any reference in these matters, and we also have the prophets of the Pre- Jesus to consider, and to what were even the beliefs of the Jews and the disciples all together before they met Jesus, we have Also Jonh the Baptist and what did he teach in this matter, the prophesies at the time of his birth, and the birth of Jesus in The Gospel of Luke, and other. Your post mentions what are some different views, leaving a trail of questions unanswered, and quite cloudy about definitions of terms use. If you would like to have a discution in this matter, from your own understanding, so you can resort to your reasoning, that would be deferent. I am the OP, and I want to thank you for your response for you have raised questions, for further consideration. God bless always, because he loves us for general and his specific reasons which are deferent for every one of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted June 2, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.80 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 2, 2016 23 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said: J I don't want to follow the comments above word for word, or sentence by sentence, or principal by principal. It would better if we collect all relevant information in this matter and not only from Paul post this statement to see if he still holds to this understanding, or the Holy Spirit has revealed a better insite in this matter, that is different from his statements to the Thessalonians in the past. And what the other disciples have taught in this matter, and should we also considare if our Lord Jesus has made any reference in these matters, and we also have the prophets of the Pre- Jesus to consider, and to what were even the beliefs of the Jews and the disciples all together before they met Jesus, we have Also Jonh the Baptist and what did he teach in this matter, the prophesies at the time of his birth, and the birth of Jesus in The Gospel of Luke, and other. Your post mentions what are some different views, leaving a trail of questions unanswered, and quite cloudy about definitions of terms use. If you would like to have a discution in this matter, from your own understanding, so you can resort to your reasoning, that would be deferent. I am the OP, and I want to thank you for your response for you have raised questions, for further consideration. God bless always, because he loves us for general and his specific reasons which are deferent for every one of us. I am seeing a lot of false doctrine on Worthy so I choose to post a reliable Christian Ministry so people can see the truth. I don't want anyone to stumble and fall in their belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted June 2, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,855 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,761 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 2, 2016 J 2 hours ago, bopeep1909 said: Question: "Who are the dead in Christ in 1 Thessalonians 4:16?" Answer: Before identifying the “dead in Christ,” we should note the context in which this phrase is found. The immediate context is 1 Thessalonians 4:13–18, which deals with the question of what will happen at the return of the Lord Jesus. Paul’s readers were concerned that when Christ returns, those who have died prior to then would somehow miss out. The primary purpose of this passage is to comfort those believers who have lost believing loved ones. The message of this passage is a message of hope. Christians have hope that unbelievers do not have when they lose loved ones. There is hope beyond the grave for Christians, and part of that hope is that, at the return of Christ, those who have already died “will rise first.” After that, Christians who are still alive will be transformed. Both groups will be “caught up” and will meet the Lord in the air. Paul closes this section with an admonition to encourage others with this hope. In this passage, Paul uses the common euphemism of sleep to refer to those who have died in Christ, i.e., believers. Paul wants to comfort his readers that those Christians who have died prior to the return of Christ will not miss out on anything. That is why he opens this section by saying, “But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope” (v. 13). So to answer the question, the dead in Christ are those believers who have died prior to the second coming of Christ. (Note, whether 1 Thessalonians 4 is referring to the second coming or the rapture is a matter of debate.) Believers, whether dead or alive, belong to Christ. We get similar language from the apostle in his first letter to the Corinthians when he writes, “But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ” (1 Corinthians 15:23). The dead in Christ applies not only to Paul’s original audience, but to all believers who have died in what can be termed the “inter-advental” period, or the time between the first and second comings of Christ. Another question that may come up in this context is what happens to believers when they die? Certainly, Paul uses sleep to refer to their state, but does this mean that believers experience (for lack of a better word) an unconscious sleep-like state until the future resurrection? Those who advocate this position, called soul sleep, base it on passages such as 1 Thessalonians 4:13–18. But it should be noted that “sleep” as used here is euphemistic. It is not meant to convey actual sleep. In fact, the experience of the believer after death and before the end of the age when Christ returns is conscious, blissful communion with the Lord. Paul hints at this in 2 Corinthians 5:6–8 and Philippians 1:23. At death, the body lies in repose in the grave awaiting the resurrection of the last day, but the soul goes to be at home with the Lord. This is the doctrine of the intermediate state. Believers experience in a provisional sense the rewards that await them in heaven, while unbelievers experience a taste of their eternal torment in hell (Luke 16:19–31). http://www.gotquestions.org/dead-in-Christ.html I don't want to follow the comments above word for word, or sentence by sentence, or principal by principal. It would better if we collect all relevant information in this matter and not only from Paul post this statement to see if he still holds to this understanding, or the Holy Spirit has revealed a better insite in this matter, that is different from his statements to the Thessalonians in the past. And what the other disciples have taught in this matter, and should we also considare if our Lord Jesus has made any reference in these matters, and we also have the prophets of the Pre- Jesus to consider, and to what were even the beliefs of the Jews and the disciples all together before they met Jesus, we have Also Jonh the Baptist and what did he teach in this matter, the prophesies at the time of his birth, and the birth of Jesus in The Gospel of Luke, and other. Your post mentions what are some different views, leaving a trail of questions unanswered, and quite cloudy about definitions of terms use. If you would like to have a discution in this matter, from your own understanding, so you can resort to your reasoning, that would be deferent. I am the OP, and I want to thank you for your response for you have raised questions, for further consideration. God bless always, because he loves us for general and his specific reasons which are deferent for every one of us. 10 minutes ago, bopeep1909 said: I am seeing a lot of false doctrine on Worthy so I choose to post a reliable Christian Ministry so people can see the truth. I don't want anyone to stumble and fall in their belief. I am glad that you express your concern, for it is for the same reason I started this post, and I see that I have to follow a gentle approach, for many they follow their Leaders in everything they say, and they have not learn to distinguish for themselves, and to be humble and it is also my testimony that one time and for a long time was just like that. The most important question withing the lines is the following. How do we see our selfs now as believers in Jesus Christ, are we in Christ right now? How did we see our selfs in time past, were all the time in Christ? And how do we see our selfs at time before our death, do we see our selfs in Christ? How about right after our death, are we in Christ? That's what I am asking with this post. We must be able to shed the light in these questions, For is the truth unveal through the examination, and how can we make it shine bright that many can see it and considare it with the help of the Holy Spirit in due time and among strong opposition that can set them FREE. In the mean time we also examine our selfs and allow the Holy Spirit to guide and examine, for the growth continues as long as we leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyAngeL Posted June 3, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 23 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 1.02 Reputation: 8,810 Days Won: 57 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/12/1952 Share Posted June 3, 2016 22 hours ago, bopeep1909 said: I am seeing a lot of false doctrine on Worthy so I choose to post a reliable Christian Ministry so people can see the truth. I don't want anyone to stumble and fall in their belief. What false doctrine do you see at Worthy? Please be specific and don't put it general terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted June 3, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.80 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 3, 2016 Just now, RustyAngeL said: What false doctrine do you see at Worthy? Please be specific and don't put it general terms. It would take me all day to be specific and post each and every one. Sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyAngeL Posted June 3, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 23 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 1.02 Reputation: 8,810 Days Won: 57 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/12/1952 Share Posted June 3, 2016 1 minute ago, bopeep1909 said: It would take me all day to be specific and post each and every one. Sorry Maybe you can give an example. You said "a lot" you must be able to point out at least one doctrine you find false? And who are these false teachers? I"m just wondering and there is no disrespect intended. You made a very strong opinion and I wish you would just be able to back up one place where you found false doctrine. Blessings RustyAngeL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted June 3, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.80 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 3, 2016 11 minutes ago, RustyAngeL said: Maybe you can give an example. You said "a lot" you must be able to point out at least one doctrine you find false? And who are these false teachers? I"m just wondering and there is no disrespect intended. You made a very strong opinion and I wish you would just be able to back up one place where you found false doctrine. Blessings RustyAngeL I am afraid that my general answer of "False doctrine on Worthy" will have to suffice Rusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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