StanJ Posted September 12, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 336 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 166 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/08/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/12/1953 Share Posted September 12, 2016 4 minutes ago, enoob57 said: Jesus directly refutes your claims here John 8:19 (KJV) [19] Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also. How then can they be believers In the context of the old Covenant they were believers. They believed in God they believe in the Holy Spirit and they believed in the Messiah to come. What they didn't recognize was that Jesus was the Messiah and they didn't know it. I agree there's a big difference between believing and knowing but the Pharisees did believe in God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted September 12, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,191 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,469 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Online Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted September 12, 2016 14 minutes ago, StanJ said: In the context of the old Covenant they were believers. They believed in God they believe in the Holy Spirit and they believed in the Messiah to come. What they didn't recognize was that Jesus was the Messiah and they didn't know it. I agree there's a big difference between believing and knowing but the Pharisees did believe in God. According to Jesus they didn't know Him or His Father ... I don't know what god your speaking of? In fact the context of all of Jn 5 bears out the fact they did not know the Scriptures! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanJ Posted September 12, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 336 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 166 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/08/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/12/1953 Share Posted September 12, 2016 3 hours ago, enoob57 said: According to Jesus they didn't know Him or His Father ... I don't know what god your speaking of? In fact the context of all of Jn 5 bears out the fact they did not know the Scriptures! That's right they didn't know him or his father but they knew and believed in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Jesus said their understanding of the Mosaic law was not to be questioned because in that capacity they were right. He also said don't do as they do. You'll actually have to expound on what you're talking about in John 5, for me to comment on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted September 12, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted September 12, 2016 3 hours ago, StanJ said: In the context of the old Covenant they were believers. They believed in God they believe in the Holy Spirit and they believed in the Messiah to come. Since Messiah had already come, and John the Baptizer had proclaimed to all Israel that Jesus was the Lamb of God and the true Messiah, they had no excuse whatsoever. They refused to believe that Jesus of Nazareth was their long-awaited Messiah. On top of that they attributed the works of the Holy Spirit to Satan, and claimed that Christ was working under the power of Satan. This was unpardonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted September 12, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,191 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,469 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Online Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted September 12, 2016 16 minutes ago, StanJ said: That's right they didn't know him or his father but they knew and believed in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Jesus said their understanding of the Mosaic law was not to be questioned because in that capacity they were right. He also said don't do as they do. You'll actually have to expound on what you're talking about in John 5, for me to comment on it. The Lord said that the Scriptures, you claim they knew, was in fact about Him and The Lord said they did not know Him therefore they knew not the Scriptures either as you claim! John 5:39 (KJV) [39] Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanJ Posted September 12, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 336 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 166 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/08/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/12/1953 Share Posted September 12, 2016 7 minutes ago, Ezra said: Since Messiah had already come, and John the Baptizer had proclaimed to all Israel that Jesus was the Lamb of God and the true Messiah, they had no excuse whatsoever. They refused to believe that Jesus of Nazareth was their long-awaited Messiah. On top of that they attributed the works of the Holy Spirit to Satan, and claimed that Christ was working under the power of Satan. This was unpardonable. I am not talking about excuses I am talking about reality. Not accepting Jesus as the Messiah does not mean they didn't believe in God or the Holy Spirit. They didn't speak against the Holy Spirit they spoke against Jesus and what he was doing which is exactly why he said all bless me and send will be forgiven except that against the Holy Spirit. Please read the text carefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanJ Posted September 12, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 336 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 166 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/08/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/12/1953 Share Posted September 12, 2016 3 minutes ago, enoob57 said: The Lord said that the Scriptures, you claim they knew, was in fact about Him and The Lord said they did not know Him therefore they knew not the Scriptures either as you claim! John 5:39 (KJV) [39] Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. I'm pretty sure I said they knew the Mosaic law and they were Believers and they sat in place of Moses and Jesus taught that they should be listened to in that regard. I've already agreed they didn't believe that Jesus was the Messiah. Regardless it was still a warning because he had not spoken against the Holy Spirit but against him and he specifically said that speaking against him was forgivable but not speaking against the Holy Spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted September 12, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,191 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,469 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Online Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted September 12, 2016 3 hours ago, StanJ said: In the context of the old Covenant they were believers. They believed in God they believe in the Holy Spirit and they believed in the Messiah to come. What they didn't recognize was that Jesus was the Messiah and they didn't know it. I agree there's a big difference between believing and knowing but the Pharisees did believe in God. Not according to God they didn't This was your statement... I have shown you from Scripture (even God's Own witness) that it is incorrect. What you do with that is totally on you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 10 hours ago, StanJ said: They were Believers in the context of the old Covenant. No, they were not. Not accoriding to Jesus. These men were extremely corrupt and they were Roman appointees. They were paid by Rome to keep the people under and they regularly violated the Law of Moses in order to fee their sinful excess. AND if they were believers in the Old Covenant context, they would have embraced JEsus as their Messiah as there was sufficient information in the Old Covenant to recognize him when he appeared. But they rejected Him. They rejected the one the prophets spoke of, so even by Old Covenant standards, they were unbelievers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woundeddog Posted September 13, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,370 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 1,054 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/21/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/18/1868 Share Posted September 13, 2016 On 9/11/2016 at 6:04 AM, shiloh357 said: The Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit can only be understood in the context in which it is presented. Shiloh, thank you- this is one of the most accurate Biblical interpretations on this topic- it is unpardonable because they did not want to accept Jesus as Messiah-- cant be saved unless you do- hence the sin is unpardonable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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