Leonardo Von Posted August 22, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 1,265 Topics Per Day: 0.44 Content Count: 2,637 Content Per Day: 0.92 Reputation: 760 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/06/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/04/1972 Share Posted August 22, 2016 On 8/16/2016 at 11:42 AM, nebula said: The problem, though, is in how you confront someone. I had a situation where my pastor confronted me about a behavior. When I explained to him my struggle that was behind the behavior, he didn't care; he just wanted the behavior to cease and desist. Instead of ministering to my hurt, struggles, and/or insecurities, instead of suggesting some guidelines to work through my struggles, instead of considering perhaps another woman in the church who could talk with me and help me, he basically stood strong in his determination that he was going to have me comply then and there. Do you supposed I felt loved at that moment? Do you suppose I felt as if his concern was for me or for himself and maintaining proper appearances? Grace and peace of our lord Jesus Christ. I agree that the way to confront someone is important. Even because, when we censor somebody, what we are doing is limiting the person in our lives. We are separating them from us and, obviously, restricting our blessing channels (Mathew 18.15-20). Considering this and that we are instructed to love even the enemies (Mathew 5.44,45), we ought to have patience and humility to accept the correction from arrogant persons. That they don’t love us, it’s obvious, forasmuch as only Jesus is good (Mathew 19.17) and is love (1John 4.8,16). Nevertheless, considering that all things are under the feet of Jesus (see Job 42.2; Psalm 24.1; Isaiah 43.13; Ephesians 1.21-23) and that all things work together for good to them that love God (Rom 8.28), therefore we have to think that, first off, it’s Jesus that is using this vessel of wrath to discipline us or deliver us from any evil. Besides, we are here to help the sinners to reach Jesus, and not to wait that some good come from them. This would be an absurd, forasmuch as every good gift and every perfect gift is from Jesus (James 1.16,17). It would be like to wait that fig tree bear olive berries either a vine, figs (Tg 3.12). Unfortunately, we are having more faith in human being that in Jesus. After all, wait that some good come out of some human being is wait that they do some that is against their nature (sinful), that is, a miracle. But, in the end, we are blaming Jesus. After all, He could have hindered the evil or provided that where sin abounded, grace did much more abound (Rm 5.20). Many times we hold grudges against Jesus like the two Emmaus disciples because what we are waiting that He does (Luke 24.21), He didn’t (as happened with Martha and Mary (John 11.21,32) and Naaman (2Kings 5.11)). Our greatest challenge is accept who we are, for what we are created, as well as each situation that come to us and our role in middle of it. At last, are we going to wait to be served by sinners (see Mathew 20.25-28)? Could anything good come out of someone who spends a lifetime treasuring sin in their heart (see Mathew 12.34,35)? Even that such a person has the title of pastor, this don’t change the fact that they are sinners. You can believe: only it is possible anything good come out of someone if Jesus has some for us and desires to use such a person to communicate to us what He already gave us. May Jesus bless you richly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Thallasa Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 17 hours ago, Butero said: That is the same question one could ask of everyone that comes against sin, or tries to administer some kind of discipline. 15 hours ago, Ezra said: Well you partly answered your own question -- "ordered creativeness". But that is not the primary reason. Laws prevent chaos and maintain order in the universe. God's laws are embedded into the universe as natural (physical, chemical, biological, etc.), as well as mental, moral and spiritual laws. These laws are all ultimately beneficial, but violation of God's laws leads to disasters, destruction, and death. The Lord Jesus Christ has placed before us the two greatest spiritual laws, which can be distilled into one word -- AGAPE. It is rightly translated as charity, and also love. But the application of this law demands that the flesh be crucified. And too many rebel against this requirement. I agree entirely ,but people who are pastors need to learn how to crucify first, their own pride and laziness ,to face the task at hand, of leading by example . How can one learn good things, from someone who is always impatient , selfish , and materialistic ? Often they need to be more humble at first anyway , then if the person is really not 'hearing ,not making some efforts ,then one can be more exacting . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted August 22, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 22, 2016 32 minutes ago, Thallasa said: I agree entirely ,but people who are pastors need to learn how to crucify first, their own pride and laziness ,to face the task at hand, of leading by example . How can one learn good things, from someone who is always impatient , selfish , and materialistic ? Often they need to be more humble at first anyway , then if the person is really not 'hearing ,not making some efforts ,then one can be more exacting . Christians cannot use the deficiencies and failings of others to excuse themselves. That is the bottom line. And if all churches followed the New Testament pattern, a plurality of pastors/elders would ensure that they corrected each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted August 22, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted August 22, 2016 There is something about this discussion that I've been pondering, but I am having a hard time figuring out how to explain it. But it seems there is a huge gap here in different people's understanding of what is meant by "control." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Von Posted August 23, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 1,265 Topics Per Day: 0.44 Content Count: 2,637 Content Per Day: 0.92 Reputation: 760 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/06/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/04/1972 Share Posted August 23, 2016 On 8/14/2016 at 9:49 AM, GoldenEagle said: Thoughts on this article? God bless, GE I like very much this article. I learnt too much with it. Thank you for share it with us. May Jesus bless you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted August 24, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.81 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 On August 22, 2016 at 4:35 PM, nebula said: There is something about this discussion that I've been pondering, but I am having a hard time figuring out how to explain it. But it seems there is a huge gap here in different people's understanding of what is meant by "control." What do you mean by "control" Nebula? I can't put my finger on it either. God bless, GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted August 24, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.81 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 30 minutes ago, Butero said: All I could go by was my impressions of the article, and it came across as intellectual junk to me. I felt like it was very judgmental towards church leaders. Or perhaps it struck a nerve? God bless, GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted August 24, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 24, 2016 29 minutes ago, Butero said: I think the person who wrote the article is trying to control ministers. That's it in a nutshell. And as you say, it is "junk". There is no solid biblical basis for that article, which makes a wild accusation against the so-called "Church". Some people are simply looking for excuses to excuse themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted August 24, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted August 24, 2016 50 minutes ago, GoldenEagle said: What do you mean by "control" Nebula? I can't put my finger on it either. God bless, GE I can't help but think of a this particular song. I'd gone through so much other stuff that walking down the aisle was tough but now I know it's not enough .... I asked the Lord into my heart they said that was the way to start but now you've got to play the part .... They told me that I'd fall away unless I followed what they say who needs the Bible anyway? [meaning, you have to follow their interpretation of the Bible rather than reading the Bible for yourself and learning to be sensitive to the Holy Spirit yourself] .... [sarcasm] I'm grateful that they show the way 'cause I could never know the way to serve him on my own.... But how do you explain this to someone who never realized they were being choked by control, or are being controlling themselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Von Posted August 24, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 1,265 Topics Per Day: 0.44 Content Count: 2,637 Content Per Day: 0.92 Reputation: 760 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/06/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/04/1972 Share Posted August 24, 2016 1 hour ago, Butero said: All I could go by was my impressions of the article, and it came across as intellectual junk to me. I felt like it was very judgmental towards church leaders. I’m sorry, but I disagree. According to Jesus, whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant (Mt 20.27). Authority isn't who have power to control, but, as said Peter: "Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight [ thereof ], not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; neither as being lords over [ God's ] heritage, but being ensamples to the flock." (1Peter 5.2,3). Only one is Judge, Jesus (James 4.12). The Father committed all judgment unto the Son (John 5.22). Our way to reprove works of darkness (Eph 5.11) is through our good witness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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