The Gathering of the Elect Is the Second Resurrection

[RustyAngeL]

The Elect  are those of us who are believers in Jesus.  Those of us who are Born Again Christians.  

[RustyAngeL]

On 9/2/2016 at 7:27 PM, tigger398 said:

Yes it is.

Yes the tribulation is wrath. It is the wrath of God for those who rejected Jesus, those who said no to His offer of the free gift of salvation and His Grace. Well said tigger right to the point.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

There are five times that God reveals two Resurrections of the dead to an afterlife not of this earth.  The sequence is always the same: First for just the Righteous; the Second for both Righteous and Wicked.  The very first time was given before Jesus came.

     Dan 12:1 "Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued.
2 "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.

Notice here that the First Resurrection is tied to the Great Tribulation.  We can know this because it is unique in being the worse time ever.  It is at that time, that everyone who is written (in the Book of Life) will be "rescued".

The second verse is confusing without interjecting the Millennium, but the Man in Linen (Jesus in my opinion) gives Daniel this information without that explanation.  At this point, His Plan remains a mystery.  Taken by itself, you can mix the two into one.  However, with further revelation, we can see how simply God stated one then the other.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Going in order, here is the second

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
25 "Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
26 "For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself;
27 and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is [fn]the Son of Man.
28 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

The first part can be taken two ways, but juxtaposing the then-present situation in verse 24 to verse 25, allows for a second, future application when those who have passed away are then called out.  This is a selective calling, only those who hear, live.

We are not to marvel at this, because a time is coming when ALL who have passed away will hear.  And to the latter group, they are separated just as Daniel 12:2.

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Marcus O'Reillius.

You said, "There are five times that God reveals two Resurrections of the dead to an afterlife not of this earth." I challenge you on the highlighted portion. Neither of the places that you've quoted thus far use these words. First, how do you know that the afterlife from these Resurrections is "not of this earth?" and second, what is your proof that this afterlife is "not of this earth?" Book, chapter, and verse, please.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Oh really?
You know, what is NOT in the Bible is your "mass transit" scheme.

6 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Book, chapter, and verse, please.

Matthew 5:3
Matthew 5:10
Matthew 5:12
Matthew 5:19
Matthew 5:20
~ and remember, because this will come up later in Revelation; God is in Heaven: Matthew 5:45
....- and that's not floating in the sky, or outer space either Mister Ultra-literal/Heaven means sky-Roy.
Matthew 7:21
Matthew 8:11
Matthew 11:11
Matthew 18:3
Matthew 18:4
Matthew 19:14
Mark 12:25
Luke 10:15
Luke 10:20
~ and remember, because it's coming up, Jesus goes to Heaven in Luke 24:51
John 14:1 "Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3 If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also."
2nd Corinthians 12:2
Philippians 3:20
Revelation 4:2
Revelation 7:9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands; 10 and they cry out with a loud voice, saying,
" Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb."
~ What John is describing is the entire Church and OT Saints, having been resurrected and Raptured, standing before God IN HEAVEN.
Revelation 11:12
Revelation 14:17
Revelation 19:14

Now go and quote Book, chapter, and verse of all the times Scripture says we're plunked right back down into the devastation of the enemy in the Middle East, wherever you imagine we're set that you've said, but I immediately dismissed as fantasy.



 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

5 hours ago, inchrist said:

Thats not exactly true, John is presently seeing the multitude come out of the tribulation.

That is exactly true because it is Scripture.  They are standing with palm fronds in front of the Father and the Son.

He is not seeing the Great Multitude come out of the Great Tribulation.  
They come out of the Great Tribulation - which links back to Jesus' prophecy in Matthew 24:29-31.

Rev 7:14 "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation,"

ἐρχόμενοι  -  Tense: Present Mood: Participle Voice: Middle or Passive Case: Nominative Gender: Masculine Number: Plural

The Present Tense: The present tense can either be continuous/ongoing or undefined. The continuous present is usually translated as "I am loosing" while the undefined is best translated as "I loosen." When the present is used with the indicative mood it denotes present time.  (Source: https://www.blueletterbible.org/help/greekverbs.cfm )

Furthermore, it is not acting as a verb, but is a participle.  This is important and something you miss.

Use of the Greek Participle
A participle is called a 'verbal adjective' because it is formed from a verb, yet often modifies other words. Oftentimes it may be hard to to translate a participle into English and still bring out the same force as it has in the Greek. First try to understand the meaning of the Greek participle is trying to convey, then worry about an appropriate English translation. The translation may have to be as an English relative clause when used adjectivally in Greek.
The participle can be used in one of three major categories of use:

(3) Adverbially
Participles can also be used in the same way that an adverb is, to modify a verb. There are different classifications and uses of adverbial participles. 

B)      Causal Participle 
    i)  Indicates the Cause or Reason
    ii) Answers the question “Why?”
    iii) Translated by ‘because’ (or ‘since’)
    iv) John 4:6 “Jesus, being wearied, sat.” (‘Because Jesus was wearied, He sat.’)
    v) Perfect Adverbial participles very often belong to this category (i.e. convey this meaning).

D)    Participle of Purpose (Telic Use)
    i) Indicates the purpose of the action of the finite verb
    ii) Answers the questions ‘Why?’
    iii) Should be translated with the English ‘infinitive’ or ‘with the purpose of’ or ‘in order to’. A simple ‘-ing’ translation misses the point.
    iv) (A future adverbial participles always belong here.)
    v) Luke 10:25 “A certain lawyer stood up testing Him (in order to test Him), saying, ‘Teacher, what must I do to gain eternal life?’”

Source: http://www.ntgreek.org/learn_nt_greek/participles.htm

Because erchomai is not coupled with the indicative mood, you cannot say it is the present tense as is used in English.  Greater understanding then is required for this Elder's explanation as John sees it at this particular junction in time.  They do come out of the Great Tribulation, that is true, but John did not see that process, nor are they "in" the Great Tribulation when John sees them.  The Elder's answer is in response to the Elder's own question: "and where have they come from?"

They are standing before God.
They came from the Great Tribulation.

Good, sober, scholarly research prevents sloppy, haphazard misinterpretation.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Quote

is in the future tense.

Ho, hum.  So what?  Yes, that is what it says.  And it hasn't happened yet, as the First Resurrection is not yet complete and the Millennium has not yet begun, and we're a thousand years away from the New Heavens and New Earth.  They JUST GOT THERE.

However, the moderators told me to ignore you, so that's what I'm going to do because really, I can't find a point to your post.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

1 hour ago, inchrist said:

Then I would suggest that you take your advise and pay attention

Advise: verb.
Advice: noun.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

1 hour ago, inchrist said:

Now if the church is resurrected and raptured 

Duh, they're IN HEAVEN.