The Fossil Record God Left For Us, Not to Darwinists

[Bonky]

34 minutes ago, Enoch2021 said:

Sure. Can you list the Falsehoods for us...?

And...would it had made a difference if I typed it all out again?? 

So you just assume the scriptures are all true unless someone can prove they're false?  That doesn't sound like the mind of a skeptic.  That sounds like someone who is trying to misplace the burden of proof.

I'm not sure what you pasted below this but it looks like a classic case of a red herring [familiar with that ;)] mixed with a heavy dose of straw man fallacy.  

Can you defend why you think the scriptures are reliable from Genesis to Revelation?   

[Enoch2021]

12 hours ago, Bonky said:

So you just assume the scriptures are all true unless someone can prove they're false?  That doesn't sound like the mind of a skeptic.  

No assumptions, I know that Scripture is TRUE.  

** And Remember, the point of the discussion between 'tleichs' and I (that you stuck your nose in) was an answer to a question: "How can I prove that Jesus lived on the Earth via The Scientific Method" which led us to discover the mysteries of "Reliable Historical Documentation". **

So your intrusions here are nothing more than Red Herring Fallacies  to Divert attention away from that!

 

I don't usually answer Fallacies; However, I have some spare time and my answer may be a Blessing to some.  SO...

1.  Ya see, since the quintessential tenet of Quantum Mechanics has "A KNOWER" as the Necessary Condition for the Formation of Matter.

and... 

2.  The combination of the 1st and 2nd Laws of Thermodynamics (Pillars of Science) state that the Universe will end (Heat Death); Ergo...it had a Beginning, and that Matter can't create itself...

Both lead one to the unequivocal conclusion of an Omnipotent Creator that has 'Always Been' that started the whole thing in the first place.

More importantly, for the context of the Red Herring (Fallacy) discussion, that leads one to also conclude that The Creator is outside of what we call "TIME"; ERGO...He can see the End from The Beginning ---which IRONICALLY is stated in Scripture (Isa 46:10).

That affords a very unique VALIDATION scenario; i.e., We can PROVE HIS existence and by proxy the VERACITY of Scripture by validating "PROPHECY".

There are over 2,000 by a very conservative count but I would say if you could find ONE that has an incredible amount of specificity, that would be reasonable to conclude that Scripture is True.  However, I do understand that Fairytale World Views and Cognitive Dissonance is a player, so I'm prepared to review many 'Prophecies'. 

Notwithstanding, I have already traveled down this road with you personally (If I'm not mistaken, more than once)--- So, if you have any questions, find them then pull those previous posts up and answer them.      mmm K?

 

Quote

I'm not sure what you pasted below

Wasn't it abundantly clear?? It was taking your fairytale 'Religion' (Atheism) to the Woodshed and Bludgeoning it Senseless with ACTUAL "Science"...that's why you're 'not sure'. 

 

Quote

this but it looks like a classic case of a red herring [familiar with that ;)]

Yes, I'm familiar pointing them out...Look UP.  

 

regards   

[Bonky]

20 minutes ago, Enoch2021 said:

That affords a very unique VALIDATION scenario; i.e., We can PROVE HIS existence and by proxy the VERACITY of Scripture by validating "PROPHECY".

There are over 2,000 by a very conservative count but I would say if you could find ONE that has an incredible amount of specificity, that would be reasonable to conclude that Scripture is True.  However, I do understand that Fairytale World Views and Cognitive Dissonance is a player, so I'm prepared to review many 'Prophecies'. 

So you start by stating there must be a creator and if we can find one prophecy that is true then we can trust [all] scripture in every detail?   You may have to clear up the logic behind this because I'm not seeing how this makes sense.  I don't think you're showing the same level of skepticism in your religious claims as you do with scientific ones.  That's what I decided to challenge you on in this discussion.  

Edited November 18, 2016 by Bonky

[Enoch2021]

1 hour ago, Bonky said:

So you start by stating there must be a creator  

Not only 'stating' it, BUT...Scientifically Validating it; BIG difference.

 

Quote

and if we can find one prophecy that is true then we can trust [all] scripture in every detail?

Well my EXACT Words were... "but I would say if you could find ONE that has an incredible amount of specificity, that would be reasonable to conclude that Scripture is True."

If you stick with the ACTUAL Argument in lieu of your conjured mis-characterizations (Straw Man Fallacy) of it then it becomes much easier to understand and reconcile.

As for every Scripture in every detail...How do you SUPPOSE I should go about doing that (??) Do you have a spare "Time Machine" I could use (??) --- post 'The Method' that would denote veracity and satisfy your doubt...?

 

Quote

You may have to clear up the logic behind this because I'm not seeing how this makes sense.

Sure.  If you have someone describing an event say 500 years before it happened in excruciating detail, let's say...Prophesies the EXACT DAY something will happen-- kinda RULES OUT 'Chance' ---and somewhat leans more toward SEEING/Controlling "IT". 

 

Quote

I don't think you're showing the same level of skepticism in your religious claims as you do with scientific ones.

I don't make 'Religious' Claims...I'm a Christian. 

 

regards

[Bonky]

11 minutes ago, Enoch2021 said:

Well my EXACT Words were... "but I would say if you could find ONE that has an incredible amount of specificity, that would be reasonable to conclude that Scripture is True."

I don't see much of a difference from what I stated.  I don't think it's reasonable to conclude scripture is true at all.  The bible is a compilation of 66 books written from 40 different authors, how does a prophecy written in one passage validate claims in another book??  

15 minutes ago, Enoch2021 said:

Sure.  If you have someone describing an event say 500 years before it happened in excruciating detail, let's say...Prophesies the EXACT DAY something will happen-- kinda RULES OUT 'Chance' ---and somewhat leans more toward SEEING/Controlling "IT". 

And the Ancient Aliens "researchers" would suggest alien intervention.  What prophecy are you referring to that has such "excruciating" detail?   Also, how do you validate/verify the SOURCE of the foreknowledge?  

17 minutes ago, Enoch2021 said:

I don't make 'Religious' Claims...I'm a Christian. 

Ok so biblical claims if that makes it more palatable for you.

[Enoch2021]

10 minutes ago, Bonky said:

I don't see much of a difference from what I stated.

 Of course you don't.

 

Quote

I don't think it's reasonable to conclude scripture is true at all.

Yet, (Short List) ---you think Ink/Paper/Glue Molecules can author Technical Instruction Manuals/Blueprints and Something can come from Nothing, Naturally; not only without any evidence but in the face of Scientific Falsification and ground squirrel level reasoning

 

Quote

 The bible is a compilation of 66 books written from 40 different authors

True and written over some 1500-2000 years. Which makes it even more astonishing and CONFIRMS HIS EXISTENCE even further due to the Internal Consistency of the Whole...i.e., ONE Author.

e.g., there are over 800 allusions to the Old Testament (READ: 'Internal Consistency') in Revelation alone.  The reason most people don't understand Revelation is because they haven't done their homework in the OT.

 

Quote

how does a prophecy written in one passage validate claims in another book??

Well I only mentioned one for the sake of "TIME"; As mentioned, there are well over 2,000.

It's all ONE Book-- The Whole Counsel of God; separated by different books, like chapters.

 

Quote

And the Ancient Aliens "researchers" would suggest alien intervention.

1.  First you have to establish the Existence of Aliens (Colloquial)...?

2.  Then show us ONE Prophecy fulfilled from the Aliens (Colloquial)...?

3.  And the conjuring of Aliens (Colloquial) is merely a Punt....same questions, different location:  e.g., Who created the Aliens ??

 

Quote

What prophecy are you referring to that has such "excruciating" detail?  

(Daniel 9:25) "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times."

 

Quote

Also, how do you validate/verify the SOURCE of the foreknowledge?

Historical Documentation.

And, We've already validated 'The Source': Laws of Thermodynamics, Laws of Physics ALL (Quantum Mechanics), Laws of Information (Quantum Mechanics and Genetics/Biochemistry) and the Laws of Logic.

In fact, How are you able to REASON in your Scientifically Falsified World View ??

 

Quote

Ok so biblical claims if that makes it more palatable for you.

Not more 'Palatable', more 'Accurate and Precise'.

 

regards

[tleichs]

On 11/11/2016 at 3:46 PM, Enoch2021 said:

The others are neither 'Sciences' or 'knowledge' or 'fact'.

I understood that you mean as others to history, liguistik etc... Therefore I ask you if the live Jesus is a fact to you.... But you showed knowledge about the historic method. So I suppose that you agree that history, linguistik, science economics have its ways of knowledge, that are diverse of scientific method, but have its validity :).

You said that this called sciences are a falacy (equivocation), and ask for prove. So to beginn we need to understand semantic and words, because science is a word. Here the explanation: https://www.decodedscience.org/ferdinand-de-saussure-the-linguistic-unit-sign-signified-and-signifier-explained/20876

Since the meaning of words are arbitrary, you need to take the concept of a word in a culture to define the meaning. So I take a lot of dictionaries, that study the meaning of the word science:

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/science?s=t
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/science
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/science
http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/science
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/science
http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/science

 

In all this dictionaries, science is never alone a scientific method. Scientific method is a defimition of method to get knowledge of something. Like you get knowledge trought the historic method about Jesus, you get knowledge about the natural word through scientific method.
And many dictionaries show that science come from the latin "knowledge" and so is used for many people. Since a word is arbitrary, you can't take a meaning for you and only yoursel. So I dont agree with you. But like I said. If we have a consence about what a word means, we can say that we are talking about the same thing, so it is not a problem for me to write science here with the meaning scientific method. because all words are arbitrary........

 

[tleichs]

@Bonky Can you show me one thing in the bible that are not true?

[Bonky]

15 hours ago, tleichs said:

@Bonky Can you show me one thing in the bible that are not true?

No.  I can show you things that I doubt.  I can show you things that I question or disagree with.  But I can't show you anything that is false.  

[tleichs]

On 18/11/2016 at 7:22 PM, Bonky said:

I don't think it's reasonable to conclude scripture is true at all

Sorry, but if you say it, so there must be something false.... Maybe you have some issue with God and therefore are trying to find something false in the bible...