Remnantrob Posted November 4, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,029 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 261 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/25/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/23/1982 Author Share Posted November 4, 2016 32 minutes ago, RustyAngeL said: Being under the law means not living under Grace. It sounds simple but that is how I look at it. I know several people who live totally under the law, they are miserable. They have no joy only pointing fingers at people who do don't live under the old law. They follow dietary laws, Sabbath laws and tells those of that don't live under the laws that we are in danger of not going to Heaven. In other words, according to them my salvation hinges on what I do in following the law, not what Jesus on the cross. Very sad. This is the kind of response is why I asked the question. Are you saying that a person cannot follow the law of God through the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit and therefore is in a lost condition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyAngeL Posted November 4, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 23 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 1.02 Reputation: 8,810 Days Won: 57 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/12/1952 Share Posted November 4, 2016 32 minutes ago, Remnantrob said: This is the kind of response is why I asked the question. Are you saying that a person cannot follow the law of God through the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit and therefore is in a lost condition? I never said that. I said I know people who follow only the law and put down people who preach Grace too. The truth is and this is what I tell them, we follow the law because of our walk in Grace which is through the power of the Holy Spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remnantrob Posted November 4, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,029 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 261 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/25/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/23/1982 Author Share Posted November 4, 2016 Just now, RustyAngeL said: I never said that. I said I know people who follow only the law and put down people who preach Grace too. The truth is and this is what I tell them, we follow the law because of our walk in Grace which is through the power of the Holy Spirit. Thanks for clarifying. I'm sorry that people would do that to you or anyone. What I usually see from christians who use the term not under the law is a generalization of people who keep and promote the law of God even if the distinction is made that we are not saved by law keeping. I was invited to a Pentecostal church for bible study and I didn't know that it was set up by my buddy to debate topics such as the sabbath and trinity. Immediately after prayer that's where the discussion went and I presented bible texts for why I keep the 7th day sabbath and believe in the Godhead and I got the "It's so sad that you're still under the law" comment. That caught me off guard and they were excited that I was pretty well read in my defense but I got that statement thrown at me for over 2 hours and we had just met that day. I started the thread to see if that was the general understanding of what it meant to be "under the law". I trust that Christ's righteousness has saved me from my sins and that he empowers me not to be under the law or above the law but to strengthen me to live up to the standard that I believes he requires of all who claim his name. My apologies again for insinuating something you did not say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted November 4, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted November 4, 2016 5 hours ago, Remnantrob said: What does it mean to be "under the law"? I don't see a thread on it and as much as the phrase is used I figured it could be explained from the bible pretty easily. Thanks and God bless. Israel was "under the Law", and Israelites were to obey the Law of Moses (the Torah) until Christ. Christians are under the Law of Christ. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. (John 1:17). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted November 4, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted November 4, 2016 1 hour ago, RustyAngeL said: Being under the law means not living under Grace. Christians are under Grace. However, the grace of God was always there, and those who were saved "under the Law" were also justified by grace through faith. For example, David was under the Law, but the grace of God was evident in his life. However, Israel was required to obey the Torah until Christ. Whether or not they obeyed is another matter. As Paul says "The Law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted November 4, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.99 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted November 4, 2016 Under assures an over. Who or what is your authority? That is who or what you're under. Under the Law: The Law is the authority over you that judges you. The standard by which one justifies themselves. Under Christ: Christ is Judge and we are to live according to that which he has shown is righteous by his life because he was given witness by God through the resurrection from the dead and placed in the Heaven of Heavens to rule and reign. If he says you live forever then no one can usurp him. If he says you die the second death no one can save you. The Law kills everyone. Christ seeks to save not kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted November 6, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted November 6, 2016 On 11/4/2016 at 0:53 PM, gdemoss said: The Law kills everyone. We need to be careful here. One of the functions of the Law is to declare the whole world guilty before God. Therefore those who refuse to obey the Gospel condemn themselves to eternal Hell. But the other function of the Law is to establish righteousness through the power of the Holy Spirit. That is why the Ten Commandments are now the Law of Christ or the Law of Love (Romans 13:8-10). Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted November 7, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.99 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted November 7, 2016 46 minutes ago, Ezra said: We need to be careful here. One of the functions of the Law is to declare the whole world guilty before God. Therefore those who refuse to obey the Gospel condemn themselves to eternal Hell. But the other function of the Law is to establish righteousness through the power of the Holy Spirit. That is why the Ten Commandments are now the Law of Christ or the Law of Love (Romans 13:8-10). Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. Yes, the end of the commandment is love out of a pure heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted November 7, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.81 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted November 7, 2016 On 11/4/2016 at 0:27 PM, RustyAngeL said: I never said that. I said I know people who follow only the law and put down people who preach Grace too. The truth is and this is what I tell them, we follow the law because of our walk in Grace which is through the power of the Holy Spirit. On 11/4/2016 at 0:40 PM, Remnantrob said: Thanks for clarifying. I'm sorry that people would do that to you or anyone. What I usually see from christians who use the term not under the law is a generalization of people who keep and promote the law of God even if the distinction is made that we are not saved by law keeping. I was invited to a Pentecostal church for bible study and I didn't know that it was set up by my buddy to debate topics such as the sabbath and trinity. Immediately after prayer that's where the discussion went and I presented bible texts for why I keep the 7th day sabbath and believe in the Godhead and I got the "It's so sad that you're still under the law" comment. That caught me off guard and they were excited that I was pretty well read in my defense but I got that statement thrown at me for over 2 hours and we had just met that day. I started the thread to see if that was the general understanding of what it meant to be "under the law". I trust that Christ's righteousness has saved me from my sins and that he empowers me not to be under the law or above the law but to strengthen me to live up to the standard that I believes he requires of all who claim his name. My apologies again for insinuating something you did not say Most Christians today do not believe in adhering to a literal Sabbath day. Unfortunately, some also do not believe in the Trinity of God. But that's a topic for another discussion. What I think you are talking about is a personal conviction that the Sabbath still applies today. The issue is the Bible doesn't pass on the Sabbath as a command to Christians. That may be in part due to the denomination of Christianity that you are part of? 7th Day Adventist right? Interested to know how this Pentecostal church viewed the doctrine of speaking in tongues? God bless, GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyAngeL Posted November 7, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 23 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 1.02 Reputation: 8,810 Days Won: 57 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/12/1952 Share Posted November 7, 2016 No worries Golden. We are brother and sister in the Lord. I love ya brother! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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