Can a Christian be a police officer, knowing that they may have to kill?

[Leonardo Von]

22 hours ago, Mateo said:

If this was such a great teaching, why did they not tell them to leave their profession? It sees John was telling them how to do their jobs according to the will of God in Lukd 3. What do you think?

 

16 hours ago, Yowm said:

Could you please give an  example where a Centurion or Soldier was told they would eventually have to cease their role? Or an instruction through an Epistle where they were told to do so?

Greetings Mateo and Yowm,

 

Grace and mercy and peace from our Lord Jesus Christ.

I hope, beloved brothers, this post can answer your question.

The Eternal has not emphasized this for a simple reason: because all Holy Scripture is important and must be fulfilled. And as I said before, there is no way to teach everything at once.

Let's think about how secular learning happens: the student starts in elementary school, then moves on to Middle school, High school, college. The Eternal begins by ministering the basic teachings and then gradually improving the individual.

Let's think differently: if an athlete wants to be a champion in the Olympics, it is logical that when he starts to train, the coach will not put a weight of five hundred pounds for him to lift. He is probably going to start with a pound, move on to two, up to five hundred pounds or more. However, from the outset he should already keep in mind that if he really wants to reach the grand prize, he will have to get there. If he is not willing to do this, then it is better not to start training:

 

·        “And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple. For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have [ sufficient ] to finish [ it ]? Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish [ it ], all that behold [ it ] begin to mock him, saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish. Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand? Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace. So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.” (Luke 14.27-33).

 

Likewise, in the Kingdom of the Eternal, each one must, in advance, know where he must arrive in order not to get involved with that which does not please the Eternal, and then to be difficult to leave.

On 12/9/2016 at 3:12 AM, Brick said:

 I see no reason you couldn't become a policeman or woman 

IF the Lord leads you in that direction

For example, suppose an individual enters the military career, and when he manages to become a general or even a marshal, he is obliged to renounce everything to follow Jesus (he receives Jesus’ call). Imagine another individual being able to build a large law firm and suddenly receive the invitation of Jesus "come and follow me" (as was the case with the apostles - see Matthew 8:22, 9: 9, 19:21).

And you can be sure: this day will come! And when this happens, will we be ready to leave all that we have gained behind (as did Ruth - Ruth 1:16)?

I usually say to people: rather than make a mistake and then ask Jesus to fix the boob we've done, is to start everything right. The soldiers and publicans of the time of Jesus did not have the privilege that we have to have access to the whole truth. Today we can know the truth, remain in it and thus avoid much suffering for ourselves and those around us.

16 hours ago, The_Patriot2016 said:

The problem is people don't understand the difference between murder, and kill.

After all, evil is always evil, regardless of who practices it and why. For you to understand what I say, observe the order given to the Eternal to all creation:

 

·        “And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, [ and ] the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed [ is ] in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. And the earth brought forth grass, [ and ] herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed [ was ] in itself, after his kind: and God saw that [ it was ] good.” (Genesis 1.11,12).

·        “And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that [ it was ] good.” (Genesis 1.21).

·        “And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that [ it was ] good.” (Genesis 1.24,25).

 

Note that all creation (whether plants or animals) has a definite identity. It is only the human being who, because of sin, has lost his identity. Today he behaves one way, tomorrow another. In the office he is, for example, a doctor; Out of there only the Eternal to know what he is. This is why even many can not see the blessing of the Eternal in their lives. After all, how can one know what is good for himself if he does not know who he is and what he is doing in this world?

Whether we like it or not, we have to accept: each can only bear fruit according to its kind. So, what kind are we, who believe in Jesus? What kind of fruit should we give?

 

·        “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.” (Galatians 5.22,23).

 

19 hours ago, ricky said:

Farther to what Shiloh said, if Christians are to be salt and light, surly Christians should be salt and light in every facet of Society, including political, judicial and police system. political figure, judges and police officers are seen as leaders in society, if these people are openly Christian and doing what is right and just I would imagine that that would show Christianity in a positive light. I think the more Christians in positions of civic leadership the better.

Can you really see a way for someone to be a police officer, a judge, a lawyer, a prosecutor, a politician, etc., dealing with all sorts of criminals and still retaining all these characteristics?

Remember that each tree bears fruit after its kind. It is impossible to gather sweet fruit from a tree of scarlet eggplant, jurubeba or lemon (see James 3: 10-12).

 

·        “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [ can ] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.” (Matthew 7.15-20).

 

Therefore, evil is always evil, and from it nothing can come but evil (Matthew 12:34-35).

 

·        “Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.” (Galatians 6.7-9).

 

Sin has no justification. Shall we surrender our precious gifts and talents from the Eternal to do evil against someone whom Jesus loved so much that he died for them? Think: as father, how would you feel if you saw someone raising their hand against one of your children (even though he or she is wrong)? Likewise, what do you think the Eternal will do, seeing us doing something against His children? Look:

 

·        “For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile: let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it. For the eyes of the Lord [ are ] over the righteous, and his ears [ are open ] unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord [ is ] against them that do evil..” (1Peter 3.10-12).

 

Also, think: is there anyone who is good and righteous enough to have the right to "throw the first stone"? See the answer:

 

·        “And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, they say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with [ his ] finger wrote on the ground, [ as though he heard them not ]. So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, he that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. And they which heard [ it ], being convicted by [ their own ] conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, [ even ] unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.” (John 8.3-11).

 

Are we better than others to the point where we are immune from the law or have the right to accuse, judge, and condemn someone (see Matthew 7: 1-5)? See below who, unfortunately, we are:

 

·        “What then? are we better [ than they ]? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; as it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat [ is ] an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps [ is ] under their lips: Whose mouth [ is ] full of cursing and bitterness: their feet [ are ] swift to shed blood: destruction and misery [ are ] in their ways: and the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes.” (Romans 3.9-18).

 

Look at the consequences of trying to justify ourselves (and, consequently, condemn others) on the basis of law:

 

·        “Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.” (Romans 2.1-11).

 

When we judge the other, we are already acting as badly as the one we are judging. And this principle can be extended: every time a judge convicts the offender and the police executes the sentence, both are committing the same offense. This is what represents the law given by Moses:

 

·        “And if [ any ] mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.” (Êxodo 21.23-25).

 

What the Eternal wanted is for everyone to realize that by doing evil against others, we are descending to their level.

Moreover, if the evil of the other is an excuse for us to do evil, then we are doomed (or condemning others, i.e., the authorities constituted by the system that rules this world) to always desire and do evil against our neighbor (and, ff course, to reap it - Galatians 6:7-9). After all, only Jesus is good (Matthew 19:17, Mark 10:18, Luke 18:19).

 

So which side do we want to stay?

 

o   On the side of those who receive the good seed of the gospel of Christ's salvation and in this trust and wait for resting (Psalm 37:7) or

o   on the side of those who only treasure the evil within themselves to have the pleasure of transmitting it in the lives of whom they deem worthy of it?

 

May Jesus give us the courage to receive and sow only the seed of love and truth, even when everything does not seem to work. After all, the conviction of an offender means only a "channel of blessing” unless in our life:

 

·        “Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” (Matthew 18.18-20).

[The_Patriot21]

Except your missing the fact all of creation was affected by the fall. Herbivores became carnivores, death entered the world...etc.

[Leonardo Von]

On 12/7/2016 at 1:36 PM, Jayne said:

• Jesus told his disciples to take swords with them. In fact, he told them if they didn't have one to buy one.
• And when Peter cut off the ear of the soldier, Jesus told Peter to put the sword back in its sheath - NOT to put the sword away. He said those who live by the sword will die by it. He wasn't saying NOT to carry a sword and to use it if necessary, he was saying that Peter would probably be cut down himself if he didn't put that sword away. He was also trying to tell Peter that He had to die. It wasn't a lesson in NOT having and using a sword, it was a lesson in discerning the right time and place to use one.

 

 

On 12/7/2016 at 3:59 PM, Mateo said:

Thank you. I want to ask about what you mean about putting away the sword. Please explain that.

Dear brothers Mateo and Jayne,

 

Grace and mercy and peace from our Lord Jesus Christ.

To analyze this argument (highlighted in red), let's see the passage:

 

·        “And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired [ to have ] you, that he may sift [ you ] as wheat: but I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death. And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me. And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing. Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take [ it ], and likewise [ his ] scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, and he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end. And they said, Lord, behold, here [ are ] two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.” (Luke 22.31-38).

 

When Jesus said that He came not to bring peace, but a sword (Matthew 10:34-36), what He was saying is that He came to put an end to all false unity, that is, with friendships signed in carnal agreements or covenants aimed at forming a cartel.

However, Jesus would never encourage a servant of Him to violence (under no pretext). In the case of the passage above, consider that Peter was not yet converted at this time. And considering that for the first time (since Peter became a disciple) he would see the struggles and persecutions because of the Kingdom of the Eternal, Jesus then orders Peter to acquire a sword at any cost.

However, the goal is not for Peter to make use of it, but rather for him, the apostles and we, to learn some precious lessons:

 

·        “And Jesus said unto him, Friend, wherefore art thou come? Then came they, and laid hands on Jesus, and took him. And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out [ his ] hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear. Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be? In that same hour said Jesus to the multitudes, Are ye come out as against a thief with swords and staves for to take me? I sat daily with you teaching in the temple, and ye laid no hold on me. But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled.” (Matthew 26.50-56).

·        “And they laid their hands on him, and took him. And one of them that stood by drew a sword, and smote a servant of the high priest, and cut off his ear. And Jesus answered and said unto them, Are ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and [ with ] staves to take me? I was daily with you in the temple teaching, and ye took me not: but the scriptures must be fulfilled.” (Mark 14.46-49).

·        “When they which were about him saw what would follow, they said unto him, Lord, shall we smite with the sword? And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear. And Jesus answered and said, suffer ye thus far. And he touched his ear, and healed him. Then Jesus said unto the chief priests, and captains of the temple, and the elders, which were come to him, Be ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and staves? When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness.” (Luke 22.49-53).

·        “Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye? They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am [ he ]. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them. As soon then as he had said unto them, I am [ he ], they went backward, and fell to the ground. Then asked he them again, Whom seek ye? And they said, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus answered, I have told you that I am [ he ]: if therefore ye seek me, let these go their way: that the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none. Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus. Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?” (John 18.4-11).

 

First lesson: no evil will ever befall us without the permission of the Eternal. Though Jesus had been all the days before His death in the temple, yet no one laid hands on Him. Even more so: even on this occasion, when the multitude came to Him to arrest Him, they were only able to arrest Jesus because He allowed. If He wanted to, they would all stay fallen to the ground and He would escape without problems.

Not to mention that He could pray to the Father and receive a help from twelve legions of angels. However, He made a point of fully fulfilling the Father's will.

Second lesson: we must never go armed, lest we should do an evil that can rob us of our peace, and cost us our lives (all who take the sword will die by the sword), and even, lead us to deny Jesus (see John 18:26).

Third lesson: Those who want to follow Jesus must give up their own sword (Luke 9:23) and let things happen according to the will of the Lord so that we may be justified. After all, Jesus will not move a finger or utter a word to free us from the fate that the Father has set aside for us (after all, He did not do this even for Himself). And woe to us, if we do not drink the cup that the Father has prepared for us (just as Jesus said that this would come about with James and John - Matthew 20:23).

Fourth lesson: when the time comes, no matter how much resources we may have in hand: if we really want to be saved, we must give our life to the Eternal as an acceptable sacrifice of sweet savor to the Eternal (as Jesus did - John 10:17,18), rather than hurting others to try to save us (Matthew 10.39).

In short, the sword was not to save one's own skin, much less Jesus. Note that because it was prophesied that Jesus would not lose any of His disciples, they would not even have to worry, try to defend themselves or escape. No harm would happen to them (as indeed it did not). That is, what saved the lives of the apostles was not the sword, but what about them was prophesied in the Holy Scripture.

What the Eternal wants, first of all, is that we should be disgusted with every kind of evil.

 

·        “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.” (Exodus 20.16).

·        “[ He that ] backbiteth not with his tongue, nor doeth evil to his neighbour, nor taketh up a reproach against his neighbour.” (Psalms 15.3).

 

May Jesus grant us a heart that grieves and afflicts with every kind of evil, that will never willingly see the suffering that someone will have to pass so that evil is not spread in his life or in society (see Proverbs 24:17).

Anyway, if anyone has to suffer evil, may we, followers of Jesus, never have anything to do with it. Let alone take pleasure in this. We must face it with sadness (the same sorrow that the Eternal feels - Ezekiel 33.11), as it happens when we lose one of the members of our body.

[Guest]

    I was a police officer for a time.   Saw many things both good and bad .saw first hand how the job can corrupt you. if you don't watch it what's right and wrong ,can become blurred .  

later little by little  I got involved with city and county and it became clear that if your in with the right group. lets just say you are pushed and there are many ways  to get extra gravy on your mashed potatoes.

 I never took extra portions of  gravy and tried to dissuade others from doing so.

That journey taught me many things 

 

Edited December 12, 2016 by Guest
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[Leonardo Von]

On 12/9/2016 at 0:34 AM, Jayne said:

  On 12/9/2016 at 0:09 AM, shiloh357 said:

God bless the men and women in law enforcement who serve and protect us ever day.

On 12/9/2016 at 0:34 AM, Jayne said:

AMEN!!!

Greetings Jayne,

 

Grace and mercy and peace from our Lord Jesus Christ.

Beloved sister, when you make a concordance in the name of Jesus (the word "amen"), beware! See the Holy Scripture alert:

 

·        “Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men's sins: keep thyself pure.” (1Timothy 5.22).

·        “Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.” (Leviticus 19.17).

 

Before you go along with something, think hard about what is actually being said. Dear sister, do you really believe that the solution is to force people to obey laws? If so, allow me, in all humility, to ask you: why then did the Eternal plant the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil in the midst of the Garden of Eden (Genesis 2.9; 3.3)?

What is the reason for this world to exist and for the Eternal not to exterminate evil at once? Why does not the Eternal itself, in person, oblige the whole world to obey Him? After all, no one is as worthy as He is. Even He has all the power and authority to do this.

Unfortunately we have been conditioned by the system to believe that the problem in our life is related to external factors. Since Adam and Eve have been like this: Adam blamed Eve and the Eternal for their sin, and Eve blamed the serpent. And from there on, the people refuse to admit that, first and foremost, evil in our lives begins inside us:

 

·        “And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: all these evil things come from within, and defile the man.” (Marcos 7.20-23).

 

Also, have you stopped to think about who is the prince of this world?

 

·        “Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.” (John 12.31)

·        “Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.” (João 14.30).

·        “Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.” (João 16.11).

 

The prince of this world is one who has nothing in Christ, who was judged and cast out by Jesus on the cross of Calvary.

And in what consists the system that he established to govern this world?

 

·        “And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [ is ] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. (Romans 12.2).

·        “[ And ] we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.” (1John 5.19).

·        “And you [ hath he quickened ], who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:” (Ephesians 2.1,2).

 

Notice that it is a system that is supported by the evil one, guided by the same spirit that operates in the children of disobedience. Hence the order not to be molded in the form of the system.

If it is still not clear, see in what exactly is the system that rules this world:

 

·        “For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [ will let ], until he be taken out of the way.” (2Thessalonians 2.7).

 

Realize that the mystery of injustice will not work only when the antichrist manifests. Since the time of Paul, he has been operating. Now, I ask you: are we going to submit to a system based on injustice, to the antichrist system?

You may question: "But the Holy Scripture commands this”:

 

·        “Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [ execute ] wrath upon him that doeth evil. Wherefore [ ye ] must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.” (Romans 13.1-5).

 

What this verse is saying is that as long as we are walking according to the flesh (grounding our lives upon laws), we will be doomed to submit to this wicked system as well as its representatives.

And do not think that whoever submits to the system based on this verse goes unpunished. See what Jesus says about Judas Iscariot.

 

·        “But, behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me [ is ] with me on the table. And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!” (Luke 22.21,22).

 

He was being used to confirm the Holy Scripture, and yet his destiny was to perdition:

 

·        “While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.” (John 17.12).

 

Therefore, to do evil, even under the command or even pressure of an authority, implies only to fall with them:

 

·        “Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying? But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up. Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.” (Matthew 15.12-14).

 

You can then question, "If I fight against the system that governs this world I am wrong because I will be using evilness (although, supposedly, to do something well). If I submit to the system I am also wrong because I am being an accomplice in its works of darkness (which must be condemned by us - Ephesians 5.11). How, then, to be free from condemnation?

Leaving this Babylonian system (see Revelation 18.4).

Fortunately, Jesus opened the Way (His grace) that frees us from this curse:

 

·        “Know ye not, brethren, ( for I speak to them that know the law, ) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, [ even ] to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.” (Romans 7.1,4)

·        “For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [ in the likeness ] of [ his ] resurrection: knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [ him ], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:” (Romans 6.5-8).

 

When the Eternal granted the law, what He expected is that we see the beauty of His holiness in contrast to misery of ours and that of this world, whose righteousness is like filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6). The idea was to realize how useless we are deprived of the glory of the Eternal (Romans 3:11,23) and thus we willingly agreed to die for ourselves so that Jesus could manifest His life (2 Corinthians 4:10,11) that fulfills the true Law (love) in the life of others (Romans 8: 3,4; 13: 8-10).

May Jesus free us from this cursed system so that we can be guided permanently in His love and truth in every situation. May Jesus save us, of ourselves, with His grace and power, so that we never think of resorting to the mystery of injustice to keep what we think to be our right.

In short, may Jesus enable us to follow in His footsteps, namely to live His righteousness (which consists in giving up our lives so that he who did evil against us may see Jesus in us and be saved) instead of resorting to "justice" of the world (who, unjustly and without mercy, compels the sinner to pay for a debt he will never be able to pay - Matthew 18:25,29).

 

·        “For this [ is ] thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully. For what glory [ is it ], if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer [ for it ], ye take it patiently, this [ is ] acceptable with God. For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:” (1Peter 2.19-21).

 

After all, in what God we have believed: in Him who through His grace and love is able to regenerate the sinner, or in one who needs severe and oppressive laws to cage the beast that insists on living in each one (Romans 7: 17-21) ?

Finally, if we still insist on believing the second hypothesis, let us ask the following question: Has there ever been, in all of humankind's history, a village that has been able to be happy and find peace and love only through laws and punishments? Is there any effective solution that disregards the forgiveness, grace, and mercy that comes from Jesus on behalf of the bandit?

 

[FresnoJoe]

On 12/9/2016 at 10:31 PM, JohnD said:

Thou shalt not MURDER is a better translation of the commandment.

Killing (when justified) as a soldier defending the nation, as a law officer defending the public, as a parent defending a child, as self defense... on and on... is BIBLICAL.

To kill unjustly is what we are commanded not to do.

[FresnoJoe]

On 12/7/2016 at 8:41 AM, kwikphilly said:

Blessings Mateo

    I was a NYC PO many many years ago......yes,a Christian can,why not......you are ,number one a visual deterrent with hopes & purpose of preventing crime,not catching folks in the act(for uniforms anyway,not plain clothes) secondly you are there to protect & to serve,you are not there as judge & jury......you are a PEACE officer,to diffuse situations & not to ignite them.....deadly physical force is a last resource because you're own life is threatened or someone elses........do I really need to give Scripture to support this occupation/assignment?

In NYC......police academy refers to us as "Peace Officers"that says a lot in my Book....                       With love-in Christ,Kwik

   

Beloved~!

[Leonardo Von]

Dear brother and sisters,

 

Grace and mercy and peace from our Lord Jesus Christ.

Those who defend the police, juridical, and political system do so because they suppose that the cause of the world's problems lies in the manifestation of the wickedness of Ha-Satan and his ministers.

None of this, however, would be a problem if the Church were to listen and obey the voice of the Eternal. After all, the grace available to those who believe is far greater than sin in us and in society. Unfortunately, we refuse to receive what the Eternal has provided for us and we come to follow solutions that have nothing to do with Jesus and His gift to us.

Think of what happened in the Garden of Eden. If Ha-Satan were the real evil in our lives, then why did the Eternal not warn Adam about him or the serpent? Because Ha-Satan can only act when there is a breach in our heart.

If Adam had heeded the call of the Eternal (to bear fruit, multiply, and fill the earth - Genesis 1:28), Eve's heart would have received the manifestation of the Eternal's love within itself, and thus there would be no shortage within her.

In other words, if the Church always behaved as the light of the world (Matthew 5.14-16), the pillar and bulwark of truth (1 Timothy 3:15), everyone would be able to see the new and living way that Jesus consecrated through the veil, that is, by his flesh (Hebrews 10: 19-21).

The mission of the Church is not to prevent the evil of this world from spreading, but to shine heavenly virtues in the midst of this corrupted and perverse generation (Philippians 2:14, 15) so that all who are of the truth see how to leave this world and pass to live in the heavenly places (Ephesians 1:2). What all creation expects is not that evil cease to work, but rather that the children of the Eternal manifest themselves so that they may be delivered from the bondage of corruption to their freedom (Romans 8:19-22).

You may ask: "But then, it means that there should be no police officer, judge, prosecutor, politician, etc.? What I am saying is that no one who claims to believe in Jesus must get involved in this, for there is something far more sublime to manifest to the world through Christ.

Understand: there are two types of vessels: those of anger and those of honor:

 

·        “[ What ] if God, willing to shew [ his ] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: and that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?” (Romans 9.22-24).

 

Notice that the Church was created as a vessel of mercy, through which the Eternal can manifest His glory (presence and character) and power. This is the focus for the Church and the true pleasure of the Eternal.

The only reason to Him to "wish" to show His anger is for all to realize how bad it is when one departs from Him and His good, pleasing and perfect will (Romans 12:2). For this He uses individuals who take pleasure in seeing the evil of others. Hence they are called vessels of wrath, for they are always becoming angry with others, as well as irritating them and being annoyed by them (Titus 3: 3), a true vicious circle.

We must not forget that he who sows evil harvests evil, regardless of the intention that led him to sow this evil (Galatians 6:7-9). Even if we have a good excuse and apparently our actions can result in immediate relief from the nuisance or evil, it will only make us attach more and more to evil (as our method of salvation) and will remove from us the possibility of having the perfected character and to be supernaturally used by Jesus.

Perhaps you think: "But the Holy Scripture said":

 

·        “Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. Deliver the poor and needy: rid [ them ] out of the hand of the wicked. They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.” (Psalms 82.3-5).

 

But the Holy Scripture also says:

 

·        “Abstain from all appearance of evil.” (1Thessalonians 5.22).

 

Realize that it is not for us to move away only from evil, but even from the all appearance of evil. And the reason for this is simple: apart from the fact that an abyss calls into another abyss (Psalm 42:7), it must be understood that everything was created by the Eternal for a certain purpose:

 

·        “Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.” (Revelation 4.11).

·        “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [ things ].” (Isaiah 45.7).

·        “Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.” (Isaiah 54.16).

·        “The LORD hath made all [ things ] for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.” (Proverbs 16.4).

·        “Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done [ it ]?” (Amos 3.6).

·        “And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.” (Revelation 17.16,17).

 

Jesus himself said:

 

·        “Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!” (Matthew 18.7).

 

In other words, if the Father has not yet commanded the tares to be torn out of this world (Matthew 13:28-29), it is because the Eternal still needs their presence to make themselves known to all.

Take the case of Pharaoh:

 

·        “And the LORD said unto Moses, Rise up early in the morning, and stand before Pharaoh, and say unto him, Thus saith the LORD God of the Hebrews, Let my people go, that they may serve me. For I will at this time send all my plagues upon thine heart, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people; that thou mayest know that [ there is ] none like me in all the earth. For now I will stretch out my hand, that I may smite thee and thy people with pestilence; and thou shalt be cut off from the earth. And in very deed for this [ cause ] have I raised thee up, for to shew [ in ] thee my power; and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth.” (Exodus 9.13-16).

 

Think about how much Pharaoh explored the Israelites. If we were there, we would surely think to destroy Pharaoh and all his people to save Israel. But this was necessary for the name of the Eternal to be feared throughout the land and thereby strengthen the faith of Israel and save people like Rahab (see Joshua 2:9-11).

In other words, if we were to attempt evil against Pharaoh (or even against the antichrist, as can be seen in several apocalyptic films), we would be disrupting the plans of the Eternal.

You may question: but do we stand still seeing many people suffering, being humiliated, mistreated, wronged, etc.?

Of course not! Our role is to pray in order to seek in the Eternal to discover who we really are and what we are doing in this world in the midst of all this. Let us rest and wait in the Eternal (Psalm 37:7) until He shows us what He wants to do through us and how we should position ourselves in order to be done in us according to His Word.

May Jesus never let us be accommodated to all the evil we are brought to witness, but also free us to act on our own account or strength, and to wait in the authorities of this world.

Since only the blessing of the Eternal enriches without bringing pain (Proverbs 10:22), may Jesus create in us a pure heart, renew in us a righteous spirit and give us the joy of (and in) His salvation (Psalm 51:10-12).

[The_Patriot21]

just out of curiousity, why do you refer to satan as "Ha-Satan?"

[CompleteAgape]

On 12/7/2016 at 10:48 AM, shiloh357 said:

A police officer shooting a violent criminal isn't vengeance.   Turning the other cheek was about how to respond in personal conflicts.   Jesus was not addressing either civil authority, nor was he addressing foreign policy.

Neither vengeance or turning the other cheek apply with regard to law enforcement or the military.

How does one's job change how God expects us to live and treat others?  As Christians our life following the principles of Jesus should be the same for everyone and the same regardless of what situation we find ourselves in.  If the government contradicts God's expectations of His people then does not God's will have priority over the government; therefore a Christian should put God before the government?  Jesus said His Kingdom is not of this world, as Christians that is our Kingdom, not the kingdom (government) of this world.