GoldenEagle Posted December 7, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.80 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted December 7, 2016 1 hour ago, Mateo said: Not sure I understand the first part. A police officer killing someone, wouldn't that go against loving your enemies as Jesus clearly commanded Christians to do? 59 minutes ago, Mateo said: Where does the Bible say a Christian can defend themself. If a police officer has to defend themself, wouldn't it be impossible and against the teachings of Jesus for a Christian to be a police officer? (continued #3) So let's talk about what Jesus said for a moment. What did Jesus command? 8. Re: Motivation & Intent I think the premise of your questions quoted above don't take into consider motivation or intent. In fact, Jesus said in John 15 that no man has greater love for his neighbor than to lay down his or her life for them. John 15:1312 “This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command you. Police officers carry a gun not with the intent to kill, but with the intent to save lives. They don't intend to murder someone. They will use force if needed though to protect others or themselves. There is a huge difference. Don't you agree? God bless, GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyAngeL Posted December 7, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 23 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 1.02 Reputation: 8,810 Days Won: 57 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/12/1952 Share Posted December 7, 2016 6 hours ago, Mateo said: Some would say that Jesus clearly teaches to not avenge yourself and turn the other cheek. Wouldn't you have to reject that teaching in order to be a police officer? A policeman or woman cannot turn the other cheek, they will get shot. Yes they can be Christians. Another group of people we need to pray for, they put their lives on the line everyday. Just a month ago we had two Palm Springs police officers shot and killed.. A woman with a new baby and a male with 7 children. These people don't get paid enough in my book. It's not about avenging themselves. It is about upholding the law and protecting us the citizens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mateo Posted December 7, 2016 Group: Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 331 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 117 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/12/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 7, 2016 2 hours ago, Jayne said: Mateo, You must MUST look at what Jesus was saying in context. His "turn the other cheek" that you have cited was from the Sermon on the Mount where he is having to undo all the twisted teachings of the Jewish leaders. They incorrectly interpreted so much and taught those errors to the people for hundreds of years. For example - They had been taught the an "eye for and eye" mean retaliation and he was saying that it most certainly did not. Here is what he literally said: Matthew 5:38-39 = "You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." They were taught that if someone accidentally OR even on purpose damaged your property - cow, house, vineyard - that you had the right to go and damage their property. That was a crazy interpretation. What it meant was that the one who caused the damage must repay the victim equal to the loss NOT that the victim could harm the one who caused the damage. That's what "turn the other cheek" means - patience, forebearance, longsuffering, forgiveness. NOT pacifism. Jesus told his disciples to take swords with them. In fact, he told them if they didn't have one to buy one. And when Peter cut off the ear of the soldier, Jesus told Peter to put the sword back in its sheath - NOT to put the sword away. He said those who live by the sword will die by it. He wasn't saying NOT to carry a sword and to use it if necessary, he was saying that Peter would probably be cut down himself if he didn't put that sword away. He was also trying to tell Peter that He had to die. It wasn't a lesson in NOT having and using a sword, it was a lesson in discerning the right time and place to use one. Another example of that is then a group of Roman soldiers came to Jesus (apparently under conviction) and asked him "What should we do?" Jesus didn't tell them to abandon the military or stop fighting wars or lay down their swords. He told them to be fair in their military practices - "don't exhort people and be content with your pay". What about today? What if some idiot cuts you off in traffic? Let them. It's probably best to get far away from them. Don't try to cut back in in front of them. But if some nut is trying to harm you or your family - STOP them. If a drunken driver is recklessly speeding the wrong way down the interstate, the police should STOP them by force if necessary. If we practiced pacifism, then there would be no military, no police, no authority, no protection, and no peace and no safety. Life would be utter chaos. Thank you. I want to ask about what you mean about putting away the sword. Please explain that. Also it was John that spoke to the soldiers, not Jesus. I thought it was Jesus too at one point. Although I understand what you are saying. That could make a huge difference in my situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot21 Posted December 7, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 28 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,710 Content Per Day: 2.46 Reputation: 8,526 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted December 7, 2016 6 minutes ago, Mateo said: Thank you. I want to ask about what you mean about putting away the sword. Please explain that. Also it was John that spoke to the soldiers, not Jesus. I thought it was Jesus too at one point. Although I understand what you are saying. That could make a huge difference in my situation. John, was representing Jesus. If John had said anything that contradicted Jesus teaching, then Jesus would have sternly rebuked Him. Don't forget that all scripture is divinely inspired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mateo Posted December 7, 2016 Group: Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 331 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 117 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/12/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 7, 2016 1 hour ago, GoldenEagle said: (continued #3) So let's talk about what Jesus said for a moment. What did Jesus command? 8. Re: Motivation & Intent I think the premise of your questions quoted above don't take into consider motivation or intent. In fact, Jesus said in John 15 that no man has greater love for his neighbor than to lay down his or her life for them. John 15:1312 “This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command you. Police officers carry a gun not with the intent to kill, but with the intent to save lives. They don't intend to murder someone. They will use force if needed though to protect others or themselves. There is a huge difference. Don't you agree? God bless, GE Thank you so much for your response and diligence. It seems I found an answer amongst your post. I have a lot to read so I hope to read it all. God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mateo Posted December 7, 2016 Group: Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 331 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 117 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/12/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 7, 2016 Thank you everyone I think I have my answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted December 7, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.80 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted December 7, 2016 34 minutes ago, Mateo said: Thank you. I want to ask about what you mean about putting away the sword. Please explain that. Also it was John that spoke to the soldiers, not Jesus. I thought it was Jesus too at one point. Although I understand what you are saying. That could make a huge difference in my situation. What is your situation? Are you planning on becoming a police officer? 14 minutes ago, Mateo said: Thank you so much for your response and diligence. It seems I found an answer amongst your post. I have a lot to read so I hope to read it all. God bless You are very welcome! Which passages do you think you found an answer? God bless, GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mateo Posted December 7, 2016 Group: Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 331 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 117 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/12/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 7, 2016 6 minutes ago, GoldenEagle said: What is your situation? Are you planning on becoming a police officer? You are very welcome! Which passages do you think you found an answer? God bless, GE Acts 10 is where I believe I found an answer. No it's a little more complicated than that. I actually served in the military, but it has nothing to do with that. Im in a community that strongly believes that Christians can't be police officers. And it's causing so issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne Posted December 7, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 107 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 3,820 Content Per Day: 1.29 Reputation: 4,806 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted December 7, 2016 40 minutes ago, Mateo said: Thank you. I want to ask about what you mean about putting away the sword. Please explain that. Also it was John that spoke to the soldiers, not Jesus. I thought it was Jesus too at one point. Although I understand what you are saying. That could make a huge difference in my situation. Thank you, I stand corrected - that was John the Baptist who said that to the soldiers in Luke 3:10-14. John had just given a stern warning to all those coming to get baptized that they had better live a life that "bears fruit" of repentance. He told them that those who don't bear that kind of fruit will get "cut down" by the axe and thrown in the fire. They all began asking "What do we do?" He told various people how to live, told the tax collectors how to run their businesses, and told the soldiers not to extort money by force and be content with their wages. As another poster has said, John was the forerunner of Christ - the one to pave the way - and Jesus said he was the greatest man [prophet] that lived. Jesus wouldn't have said that if John had taught things contrary to the truth. When Jesus told Peter to put the sword back in the sheath, he didn't tell him to get rid of the sword. Peter kept it, just now sheathed. It was not the time to fight. It was the time for Jesus to surrender to being arrested. If a fight broke out, Peter - in my opinion, being not very good with the sword and only cutting off the solder's ear - would more than likely have been killed. OR may be even arrested. They would have killed him - finding him to be associates with Jesus. That was not God's plan. Peter kept his sword. Jesus only told him to put it up - not to get rid of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mateo Posted December 7, 2016 Group: Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 331 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 117 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/12/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 7, 2016 2 minutes ago, Jayne said: Thank you, I stand corrected - that was John the Baptist who said that to the soldiers in Luke 3:10-14. John had just given a stern warning to all those coming to get baptized that they had better live a life that "bears fruit" of repentance. He told them that those who don't bear that kind of fruit will get "cut down" by the axe and thrown in the fire. They all began asking "What do we do?" He told various people how to live, told the tax collectors how to run their businesses, and told the soldiers not to extort money by force and be content with their wages. As another poster has said, John was the forerunner of Christ - the one to pave the way - and Jesus said he was the greatest man [prophet] that lived. Jesus wouldn't have said that if John had taught things contrary to the truth. When Jesus told Peter to put the sword back in the sheath, he didn't tell him to get rid of the sword. Peter kept it, just now sheathed. It was not the time to fight. It was the time for Jesus to surrender to being arrested. If a fight broke out, Peter - in my opinion, being not very good with the sword and only cutting off the solder's ear - would more than likely have been killed. OR may be even arrested. They would have killed him - finding him to be associates with Jesus. That was not God's plan. Peter kept his sword. Jesus only told him to put it up - not to get rid of it. Are you saying thoes that live by the sword die by the sword means that, thoes people where skilled in their work, so Peter should be careful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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