Ezra Posted January 2, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.34 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 2, 2017 1 minute ago, inchrist said: Since Christianity has decided to be gone of the Mosaic Laws....Im finding it increasingly difficult to seperate a pagan from a Christian This again shows that you neither understand Christ or what a Christian is. If a person can equate Christians with pagans, he has a very, very grave problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted January 2, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 269 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,231 Content Per Day: 3.48 Reputation: 8,517 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted January 2, 2017 (edited) On 26/12/2016 at 2:08 AM, JohnD said: Was it just a vehicle of convenience that Jesus was born Jewish? And that his global outreach to all peoples of the Earth trumps his heritage (making him essential a Gentile Christ as opposed to a Jewish Messiah)? Some here who vehemently oppose me know where I am heading with this. But I welcome all non-combative input in accord with the rules and guidelines of Worthy Network / Christian Forums. Feel free to give even your opinion (and preferably why it is your opinion). Hi JohnD, Yes, I`m a bit late on this thread, but I hope I can add to the conversation. Fair enough question - `Was it just a vehicle of convenience that Jesus was born Jewish? And that his global outreach to all peoples of the Earth trumps his heritage (making him essential a Gentile Christ as opposed to a Jewish Messiah)?` In other words, Why was He born of Israel? We know that the Godhead rule over all. Then we also read in God`s word that God the Father ordained for His Son to lawfully rule in His glorified body specifically in every realm - the earth, & the heavenly realms. Then we realise that God made the nation of Israel to rule the nations of the world & their king was to come from their nation. The law of kingship under the Old Testament is very explicit. According to the divine law no stranger or foreigner was to be selected as king, but a brother of like nationality. Like wise no sport enthusiast, no self-indulgent individual & no seeker of riches was to be permitted to reign. The king was required to be familiar with the scriptures and a seeker of the truth. ` you shall surely set a king over you whom the Lord your God chooses: one from among your brethren you shall set as king over you; you may not set a foreigner over you, who is not your brother. But he shall not multiply horses for himself, nor cause the people to return to Egypt to multiply horses, for the Lord has said to you, "You shall not return that way again." Neither shall he multiply wives for himself, lest his heart turn away; nor shall he greatly multiply silver & gold for himself. Also it shall be, when he sits on the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write for himself a copy of this law in a book, from the one before the priests, the Levites. And it shall be with him, & he shall read it all the days of his life, that he may learn to fear the Lord his God and be careful to observe all the words of this law & these statutes, that his heart may not be lifted above his brethren, that he may not turn aside from the commandment to the right hand or to the left, and that he may prolong his days in his kingdom, he & his children in the midst of Israel. ` (Deut. 17: 15 - 20) Thus we realise that the Lord Jesus is King of the Jews, (Matt. 2: 2) & also King of Israel, (John 1: 47 - 49). He is their kin. One from among them, their brother. Then as the Lord is King in other realms, we see that concerning us, the Body of Christ, He is also our kin, our relation, brother. He is our Head & we are His body. The is no greater relationship than that, (except the Godhead). And we are told that we rule & reign with Christ on His highest throne in the third heaven. (Rev. 3: 21) So in regard to the question the answer as always has to do with God the Father`s purposes through Christ - - for the Body of Christ - Head & Body. - for Israel - King & nation. - for the nations - King over the ruling nation of Israel. Marilyn. Edited January 2, 2017 by Marilyn C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted January 2, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.34 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 2, 2017 54 minutes ago, Marilyn C said: In other words, Why was He born of Israel? It all goes back to Abraham and the Abrahamic Covenant (which also included the Gentiles and the Church). Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. (Galatians 3:16). The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. (Matthew 1:1). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 4 hours ago, inchrist said: The Law is not jewish.... The law was accepted by the Jews but they are not Jewish....what is Jewish are rabbinical laws those are Jewish I didn't say that the law is Jewish. My point is that we are not obligated to keep the Sabbath day, to follow the dietary laws, to keep the festivals, or wear the tassels on our garments, and those such things. 4 hours ago, inchrist said: How is that even remotely possible since the new covenant was for Israel in the first place? No, the New Covenant is for all people. It is a covenant that was cut in the divine blood of Jesus for all people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 3 hours ago, inchrist said: A christian who declares that Gods laws are done away with has very very grave problems Those who deny the deity of Jesus have a far more serious problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 2, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 909 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,656 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,838 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 2, 2017 I don't know who does a better job of divorcing the Jewishness of Jesus and of our faith in him... the Romanized Church or the jealous Jewish people. Again, it keeps coming down to pride and prejudice. The pride of the Jewish born people or the prejudice of the Gentile born people. The hostile Roman take over of the early church (4th Century CE) could not wait to expunge Christianity of everything Jewish. And there came no objection I am aware of from the Jewish people (Messianic or not). Still the scriptures persist. John 8:24 (AV) 24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am [he], ye shall die in your sins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 1 hour ago, JohnD said: I don't know who does a better job of divorcing the Jewishness of Jesus and of our faith in him... the Romanized Church or the jealous Jewish people. No one here is divorcing the Jewishness from Jesus... That is clearly not what is being discussed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 13 minutes ago, inchrist said: Of cause you did, you implied it here with this statement No I didn't. I said that we are not commanded to live as Jews. There are commandments that were given to the Children of Israel that were meant to separate them from the surrounding pagan nations. They were to eat differently and worship differently and God gave them a set of commandments to that end. There is no biblical basis for saying that the Church is required to keep the Sabbath day or to follow the dietary laws or keep the festivals that were given only to the Children of Israel. No believer is required to live as a Jew. Quote Or are you suggesting Christians are wanting to follow rabbinical laws which are conpletely different from Mosaic law? No, I am saying that there is no obligation on the part of Christians to follow the ceremonial, dietary laws in the Mosaic Law. Quote Says who? Our church Fathers? No, the Scriptures. If you want to keep the Sabbath day, that's fine. If you want to follow the dietary commandments, that's fine. But you have no right, biblically, to require it of other believers. Quote Luke 4:16 (NKJV) So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read. Or Acts 13:42 (NKJV) So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath. Nope i dont see our church fathers saying anything about not obligated from keeping the Sabbath. Looks like they had teachings on the Sabbath. That doesn't really make a point about requiring the Sabbath to be kept by all believers. Those are not doctrinal passages, and they prescribe no instruction for believers, obligating anyone to keeping the Sabbath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 23 minutes ago, inchrist said: Which i dont deny.....so whats your point? Or was this more of a tacky low shot? Denying that Jesus is God is a denial of His Deity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 3 minutes ago, inchrist said: No its not but way to go for changing a subject when scriptures start refuting you Yes it is. Deity = God. That's what the word is. And while you're passing judgment on Christians who don't keep the Sabbath day, you're denying an essential doctrine of Scripture. I am not changing the subject at all. I am pointing out that there is a far greater issue afoot here. Whether someone keeps the Sabbath or not has nothing to do with salvation. And no, you haven't really refuted anything I have said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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