Ezra Posted January 25, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 25, 2017 8 hours ago, n2thelight said: It would be wise to understand what that word mansions mean.. It would be wiser to understand what Heaven means. However that passage clearly refutes all the nonsense about no Heaven for believers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2thelight Posted January 26, 2017 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,139 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 796 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted January 26, 2017 8 hours ago, Ezra said: It would be wiser to understand what Heaven means. However that passage clearly refutes all the nonsense about no Heaven for believers. The only way one gets to Heaven before the return of Christ,is at death... No rapture whatsoever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2thelight Posted January 26, 2017 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,139 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 796 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted January 26, 2017 Why would the elect of God need to be sealed,if they are not going to be here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted January 26, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.80 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 26, 2017 23 minutes ago, n2thelight said: Why would the elect of God need to be sealed,if they are not going to be here? Where is Scripture that says that those who go through the Tribulation will be sealed? I think the Bible says the 12 tribes of Israel will be but not a gentile who you think goes through the seven year tribulation. One weakness of posttribulationism is the clear teaching of Scripture that those who are in Christ are not under condemnation and will never experience the wrath of God (Romans 8:1). While some judgments during the Tribulation specifically target the unsaved, many other judgments, such as the earthquakes, falling stars, and famines, will affect the saved and unsaved equally. Thus, if believers go through the Tribulation, they will experience the wrath of God, in contradiction of Romans 8:1. https://www.gotquestions.org/posttribulationism.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus O'Reillius Posted January 26, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,050 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 632 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/29/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 26, 2017 31 minutes ago, n2thelight said: No rapture whatsoever Mt 24:29-31. The Rapture is in verse 31.The Glorious ReturnBut immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with A great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. Revelation 14:14-16. The Rapture is in verse 16.The ReapersThen I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and sitting on the cloud was one like a son of man, having a golden crown on His head and a sharp sickle in His hand. And another angel came out of the temple, crying out with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, Put in your sickle and reap, for the hour to reap has come, because the harvest of the earth is ripe. Then He who sat on the cloud swung His sickle over the earth, and the earth was reaped. 1Th 4:15-18. The Rapture is in verse 17.Those Who Died in ChristBut we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words. 1Cor 15:50-52. The Rapture is in verse 51 and 52.The Mystery of ResurrectionNow I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit  the imperishable. Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. There is a Rapture of persons living on the earth, who do not experience death, when Jesus comes again on the Day of the Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keras Posted January 26, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,686 Content Per Day: 0.63 Reputation: 301 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/07/1941 Share Posted January 26, 2017 11 minutes ago, missmuffet said: One weakness of posttribulationism is the clear teaching of Scripture that those who are in Christ are not under condemnation and will never experience the wrath of God (Romans 8:1). While some judgments during the Tribulation specifically target the unsaved, many other judgments, such as the earthquakes, falling stars, and famines, will affect the saved and unsaved equally. Thus, if believers go through the Tribulation, they will experience the wrath of God, in contradiction of Romans 8:1. Read Revelation 12. Verses 1-5 are about the birth and Resurrection of Jesus, then from verses 6-17 it is about those who keep God's Commandments and are His witnesses. Half of the Christians are taken to a place of safety on earth and half remain in the holy Land. The two groups as described in Daniel 11:32...those who keep the Covenant and those who agree to the peace treaty with the leader of the One World Govt. Isaiah 28:14-15 Also mentioned in Zechariah 14:1-2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keras Posted January 26, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,686 Content Per Day: 0.63 Reputation: 301 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/07/1941 Share Posted January 26, 2017 12 minutes ago, Marcus O'Reillius said: Mt 24:29-31. The Rapture is in verse 31. Very telling that none, not one, zilch, zero, of the verse you quote as rapture to heaven proofs, mention heaven at all. They are a confused mix of scriptures about the forthcoming judgment of the Sixth Seal and the years later;Return of Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus O'Reillius Posted January 26, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,050 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 632 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/29/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 26, 2017 Just now, Keras said: Very telling that none, not one, zilch, zero, of the verse you quote as rapture to heaven proofs, mention heaven at all. The removal from earth was the question; he said there was none. I did not need to link the Rapture to Heaven in that post. You quibble at the smallest things and swallow whole elephants of fantasy. The Great Multitude are in Heaven. The come out of the Great Tribulation of Mt 24:29 with the Rapture of Mt 24:31. And Jesus takes them to the barn of Heaven while the wicked are collected to be burned in the field of this world. You say, 'No! - that's on Mount Zion!' You also say because the sun shines figuratively (seven being a Godly number) when God heals the wounds He has inflicted upon His people - that the sun explodes and burns a third of the earth. You also say no one can go to Heaven based on John 3:13 when Enoch, Elijah, Ezekiel and John all went to Heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus O'Reillius Posted January 26, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,050 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 632 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/29/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 26, 2017 11 minutes ago, Keras said: Half of the Christians are taken to a place of safety on earth and half remain in the holy Land. Nope. The Remnant Jews, who are His people too, are protected. We, the offspring of Judaism, who hold onto the testimony of Christ Jesus are persecuted in the Great Tribulation until only a few of the Elect remain - and they are caught up in the Rapture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2thelight Posted January 26, 2017 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,139 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 796 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted January 26, 2017 22 minutes ago, Marcus O'Reillius said: Mt 24:29-31. The Rapture is in verse 31.The Glorious ReturnBut immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with A great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. Revelation 14:14-16. The Rapture is in verse 16.The ReapersThen I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and sitting on the cloud was one like a son of man, having a golden crown on His head and a sharp sickle in His hand. And another angel came out of the temple, crying out with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, Put in your sickle and reap, for the hour to reap has come, because the harvest of the earth is ripe. Then He who sat on the cloud swung His sickle over the earth, and the earth was reaped. 1Th 4:15-18. The Rapture is in verse 17.Those Who Died in ChristBut we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words. 1Cor 15:50-52. The Rapture is in verse 51 and 52.The Mystery of ResurrectionNow I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit  the imperishable. Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. There is a Rapture of persons living on the earth, who do not experience death, when Jesus comes again on the Day of the Lord. All those verses are the 2nd coming,which is as scripture states,after the trib,show me a verse where He comes before the trib Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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