More on Terri Schiavo

[dwinkjr]

I struggle to understand the position God would have me take. On one hand 'Taking of a life', on the other hand 'Playing god to keep this life going artificially.'

Are parents "playing God" when they feed their infants?

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Tess,

I agree 100%, it is not as if this woman is being kept alive by artificial means, such as a respirator. She is alive and well, she is not capable of eating so she is being fed through a tube.

Babies need fed yet we allow htem to do so, are those that support the removal of her feeding tube also supporting those who wish to starve there children to death because they feel they would not be able to have a normal life? Many Senior Citizens also require others to feed them or other "unconventional" means of obtaining sustanance. Again are we saying it is ok to deny these people food and starve them because WE feel their quality of life is not what WE would want.

God Bless,

Dave

[carlos123]

I am absolutely appalled at what is happening to Terri Schiavo and how we as a nation can justify starving and dehydrating someone to death as a way of letting them die a "peaceful" and "natural" way.

I am appalled at the way some Christians are so deceived in this day and age as to think that the right to die movement is a benign movement to enable people to die in peace instead of a movement to devalue human life and strip it of the value that God puts on it.

I have been doing a whole lot of reading on this situation and I tremble at the realization that what is happening with Terri is but the tip of the iceberg of the inhumanity and horror of people being put to death by starvation and dehydration routinely all over the country.

One woman I read about cried out for water and food and was denied it by court order because she was seen to be unfit to go back on her previously established directive to not use extraordinary means to keep her alive. The nurses were so appalled that they tried to sneak food into her but she died shortly afterwards though an appeals court finally ruled in her favor. This woman cried and screamed for food and water and was denied!!!

I tell you the truth that what is happening here is no less than what happened in Germany years before World War II began. When disabled people began to be seen as "life unworthy of life" such that no one would have wanted to live like that and that it was therefore more merciful to put such people to death.

Karl Brandt, Hitler's personal physician said at the Nuremberg trial..."I was motivated by absolutely humane feelings. I never had any other intention. I never had any other belief than that those poor miserable creatures -- that the painful lives of these creatures were to be shortened."

Valentin Faltlhauser, also on trial before the Nuremberg tribunal insisted that for him, "the decisive motive was compassion."

Another Ernst Wentzler, a pediatrician standing trial, recalled, "I had the feeling that my activity was something positive, and that I had made a small contribution to human progress."

A physician-defendant, a Hans-Bodo Gorgass who worked at the Hadamar psychiatric hospital were thousands were killed "mercifully", echoed the arguments of contemporary supporters of assisted death, asserting that "release from this life signifies an act of mercy."

A nurse at Hadamar added that "death was a form of deliverance."

Anyone who does not see the parallels between the justications used by Nazi murderers and those used today to "mercifully" kill people like Terri is either ignorant or blind.

Instead of a presumption in favor of life we as a society have begun to act with a presumption oriented toward death using the same exact arguments that were used in pre-Nazi Germany to justify the sterilization and the eventual killing of those who were disabled before the Holocaust even came into existance.

Truly as Jesus said how we treat the least among us shows more about how we treat Jesus than most anything else!

Please read the following articles if you are desire to have your eyes opened to what is happening in all this. Please be forwarned that some of what these articles talk about is quite gruesome though not inappropriately so in the context of describing what the authors are talking about. Especially the last one written by Melonie Green (who I believe was the wife of Keith Green - the Christian singer who was killed in a plane crash years ago).

http://www.propertyrightsresearch.org/2004...rs_of_death.htm

http://www.humanlifereview.com/2003_fall/a..._fall_smith.php

http://www.noapathy.org/tracts/crimeofbeingalive.htm

Along with being appalled by what is happening to Terri I am also inclined to be appalled at the blindness in the Church to what is happening through all this such that if we as a Church had been around prior to World War II we too would have most likely done too little too late, as a result of our blindness and apathy and love for our own lives, to have prevented the rise of Hitler's Germany through active efforts to prevent it.

Carlos

[eve]

From: http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/3/22/235813.shtml

Tuesday, March 22, 2005 11:52 p.m. EST

Second, Third Nurse Accuse Michael Schiavo

Two additional nurses have filed affidavits in the Terri Schiavo case that corroborate bombshell allegations by nurse Carla Sauer Iyer, who went public on Tuesday with claims that Michael Schiavo had deliberately withheld treatment from his disabled wife.

Heidi Law was a certified nursing assistant at the Palm Garden Convalescent Center in Largo, Fla., where she treated Mrs. Schiavo in 1997.

In an affidavit filed with the court in August 2003, Ms. Law maintained:

"I know that Terri did not receive routine physical therapy or any other kind of therapy. I was personally aware of orders for rehabilitation that were not being carried out. Even though they were ordered, Michael would stop them."

Law continued:

"Michael ordered that Terri receive no rehabilitation or range of motion therapy. I and [another CNA] would give Terri range of motion anyway, but we knew we were endangering our jobs by doing so.

"We usually did this behind closed doors," Law said, because "we were so fearful of being caught ... we were always looking out for Michael, because we knew that, not only would Michael take his anger out on us, but he would take it out more on Terri. We spoke of this many times."

"At least three times during any shift where I took care of Terri, I made sure to give Terri a wet washcloth filled with ice chips, to keep her mouth moistened.

"On three or four occasions I personally fed Terri small mouthfuls of Jello, which she was able to swallow and enjoyed immensely. I did not do it more often only because I was so afraid of being caught by Michael."

Like nurse Iyer, Law suspected that Michael was mistreating Terri, noting in her sworn statement:

"Several times when Michael visited Terri during my shift, he went into her room alone and closed the door. This worried me because I didn

[eve]

Hospice Nurse Fired for Supporting Terri Schiavo

By The Empire Journal

http://www.theempirejournal.com/03220507_h...e_fired_for.htm

A registered nurse who was employed at the Florida hospice where Terri Schindler-Schiavo is being dehydrated and starved to death has been fired for not supporting the efforts to kill the disabled woman..

Nora Lynn Wagner says that the administration of Woodside Hospice in Pinellas Park notified her employment agency Monday afternoon that they did not want her back working at the facility.

Terri, 41, is now in her fifth day without food and water after her gastric feeding tube was removed Friday by order of Sixth Circuit Court Judge George Greer. Her estranged husband and guardian, Michael Schiavo, says that she would not want to be kept alive by

Edited March 23, 2005 by eve

[Guest brownlee40]

Dear Friends,

Federal legislators and Florida lawmakers need to hear from you en masse - no matter what state you live in - so that they will pass laws to save Terri Schiavo.

Time is running out for the disabled Florida woman- her feeding tube is set to be removed by court order on Friday.

Efforts are under way in both the U.S. Congress and the Florida Legislature to pass laws that would spare her life - and the lives of other disabled people unable to speak for themselves. But for those laws to pass, lawmakers need to hear from thousands of you - today.

There are two things you can do:

1. Contact your U.S. senators and congressman, by phone and e-mail, and urge them to move quickly to pass the Incapacitated Person's Legal Protection Act before Friday. For contact information - including an easy-to-use e-mail form - visit the CitizenLink Action Center and type your ZIP code into the space provided

2. No matter what state you live in, contact as many members of the Florida House and Senate as you can - again, by phone and e-mail - and urge them to move quickly to pass the Starvation and Dehydration of Persons with Disabilities Prevention Act before Friday. There are more than 130 lawmakers in the Legislature - contacting a large number of them will take you some time; but we urge you to take that time, and endure the inconvenience, because the life of an innocent woman is at stake

Thank you for doing all you can to prevent the court-ordered startvation of Terri Schiavo.

What you need to know about Terri Schiavo:

http://www.family.org/cforum/fosi/bioethic...FA05CESH&tvar=n

Article by Focus on the Family Ministry

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the judges will be accountable for what they do god is the only one who can take life away not a judge

[Ovedya]

Update: The bill in the Florida State legislature failed to pass by three votes. There are now only two options: The US Supreme Court and an option apparently open to the governor's office to take custody of Terri, by the state department of children and families.

[carlos123]

What an utterly sad day this is for me to realize that Terri will shortly die as a result of the blindness and deception gripping our land.

Last night when I went to brush my teeth before bed I broke down weeping at how I could so readily brush my teeth while Terri was at times denied basic dental hygiene to keep her teeth in health.

When I went to turn on the water I wept at how easily I could get water from a faucet while Terri is denied even a cup of refreshing water under threat of arrest to anyone who even tries to get her some water.

I cried still more tears wondering where God is in all this and wondering why He allows men in black robes to decide the fate of Terri, not on moral grounds, but on the relative merits of one legal phrase compared to another.

I can barely write this without starting to uncontrollably weep again.

That someone who MIGHT be conscious, who MIGHT want to live, is being starved to death and denied basic food and water and that loved one's must endure the agony of watching this under the color of law is beyond me to comprehend. How deceived our society has become. How incredibly deceived the Church of the living God has become to think that any of us can even condone such a thing as a mercy killing. Hitler's minions thought no less, felt no greater compassion, than those in the right to die movement feel when contemplating how to relieive the pain and suffering of those deemed not worth being kept alive.

May God have mercy on us all for not having stood up to be counted earlier, for not having done more, for having stood by while laws and policies were enacted in years past that have led to this utter travesty of justice.

We as a nation deserve the uncompassionate judgement of a holy God for having allowed this to happen.

I hope that my Canadian friends do not bring up this issue to me as I will be unable I think to begin to speak of it to them without on the one hand, outright condemning them for their liberal views and calling them my friends no more and on the other breaking down in fits of weeping as I sit there with them at a restaurant while food is placed in front of me.

May God enable me to keep from weeping as I behold food and water before me ready for the taking for they will be unable to understand. Unable to comprehend the depth to which this has gripped my soul. And unable to fathom what would make me weep so.

Sad to say that many in the Church today would likewise not understand.

I am ashamed to be an American today. Ashamed to be a Christian if being a Christian means to be counted among all those professing Christ as their Lord and Saviour who sat by while a helpless person was tortured to death or worse yet who embrace beliefs that are contrary to the value God places on a life.

I pleaded with God to take my life if such would save Terri's and I would gladly have given it if such would have effected her continued living.

I only hope and pray that we, as the Church of the Living God will not once again go back to our comfort filled ways hoping, like an Ostrich with it's head in the sand, that we will not have to get involved or face the evil of the world at some other cross road.

I hope and pray, that like many years ago when armies marched to the cry of "Remember the Alamo!" that we too will march forward into battle against this evil with the cry of "Remember Terri" that we might be used by God to protect others from such a horrible fate in the future.

I pity the people who allow this to ever happen again!! I pity a nation like the U.S. whose God has been the Lord in times past but who has in recent years, turned her back on the things of God. I pity the Church who has been so seemingly impotent to do much about any of this in a country that allows us to do more than any other people's in the history of the world have been able to do, to stand up for the weak and to uphold righteousness in the land.

Vengeance is mine says the Lord! I pray that it would be so.

Yes, may God continue to have mercy on all those who have allowed this to happen in offering them the forgiveness to be found in Christ but the same God who daily extends such mercy is the same God whose wrath is being stored in heaven against all the unrighteousness of men who refuse to repent of their wickedness and come to Christ. And the same God who enlightens our hearts every day and who gently leads us as His children is the same God who will give to every man according to his deeds!

A terrible day of judgement awaits those involved in this situation who have trampled on Terri's life and thrown it away as not worth keeping and who do not turn to Christ in repentance and faith. The wrath of God against such wickedness will not continue to be held back as though it was not there when confronted with such wickedness among the people of a nation. Nor will His forebearance endure forever.

Carlos

[papasangel]

Steff,

If the cortex had turned into fluid as you claim Terri would have zero bodily functions ie BREATHING and response to stimuli. So sorry that dosen't hold water.

also I believe that it was mentioned numerous times about the husband with holding treatment for infections, therapy which may help (but we won't know until it is attempted) and the numerous injuries she has sustained that are older than when she supposedly hit the floor. That in itself would send up red flags to most medical personnel as to the possibility if not probalitiy of abuse. So yes until her husband decides to do everything to help his wife recover and not hinder treatment he is under suspicion as to being an abuser. Did you realize that the majority of abused victims in this country will not come forward because of fear of repercussions from the abuser. And that is because the laws of this great country gives more rights to the perpetrators than the victims.

Suppose the shoe was on the other foot? suppose you were the victim of abuse? try walking in an abused persons shoes for a while and I guarentee you will sing a different tune.

[O'Dannyboy]

There are now only two options: The US Supreme Court and an option apparently open to the governor's office to take custody of Terri, by the state department of children and families.

There is a third. Pray for Terri they she will be lifted up and made whole, That with her own voice she can set the record straight. So she can walk right up to Micheal and look him in the eye and tell him " God has been watching you, fall to your knees and ask for forgiveness".

Ezekiel 34:8 As I live, says the Lord Yahweh, surely because my sheep became a prey, and my sheep became food to all the animals of the field, because there was no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my sheep, but the shepherds fed themselves, and didn't feed my sheep;

Psalms 10:12 Arise, Yahweh! God, lift up your hand! Don't forget the helpless.

[O'Dannyboy]

I thought some of you might find this web site of interest. This is a well put together web site about Terri's fight. There are links to alot of the court documents in PDF format and much more. If you read into it, it seems that this Judge Greer has something against Terri and was the cause of others starving to death as well.