JohnD Posted March 31, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 905 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,646 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,832 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted March 31, 2017 Ladies and gentlemen the preceding nameless person (can't name names, it might hurt their ittle feewings) has come up with the best way into heaven... Don't Tell! If you don't tell anyone about Jesus then they can 't "reject" Jesus so... THEY'RE IN! WoW will theological wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted March 31, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 905 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,646 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,832 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted March 31, 2017 John 3:18 (AV) 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. The verse says "believeth" and "believed" ONLY! Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 16 minutes ago, JohnD said: Ladies and gentlemen the preceding nameless person (can't name names, it might hurt their ittle feewings) has come up with the best way into heaven... Don't Tell! If you don't tell anyone about Jesus then they can 't "reject" Jesus so... THEY'RE IN! WoW will theological wonders never cease! That is nonsense.  Babies are incapable of receiving the Gospel.   What God does with those who died before they heard, is God's problem, not ours. He will handle it as it should be. But babies are a different issue and to suggest that babies go to hell really cannot be supported by scripture and sound doctrine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 13 minutes ago, JohnD said: John 3:18 (AV) 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. The verse says "believeth" and "believed" ONLY!  But babies are not disbelieving.  It is one thing to hear the Gospel and remain an unbeliever.  But babies cannot accept or reject the Gospel and to suggest that God puts some of them on the same level as someone who heard and rejected is not tenable and not Scriptural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 22 minutes ago, JohnD said: So... John 14:6 (AV) 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Means nothing to you? I suppose I completely misused this passage as well.  That was not applied by Jesus to babies.  And it simply points to the exclusivity of Jesus as the only way to God as opposed to any other religion or ideology. To say that babies will go to hell because they can't come to Jesus is preposterous on its face and a misuse of Scripture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woundeddog Posted March 31, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,370 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 1,054 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/21/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/18/1868 Author Share Posted March 31, 2017 9 hours ago, Bonky said:  Many here are so appalled at the idea of a baby being tossed into a "blast furnace" but you're ok with an adult?? I think if you really let that sink in for a minute it doesn't make sense. It makes perfect sense-- an adult ( unless mentally deficient in some way) has made choices contrary to God-- where as a baby ( who doesnt know any better) is still "innocent of conscientiously defying God" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 12 hours ago, Bonky said: I'm sure the Muslims feel the same way about you and I. I think it's absurd that people should be tortured forever because they lived a human life and didn't believe in whatever religion. From this thread I can see that some believers have a conscience about these matters, that's refreshing to see.  No one goes to hell for eternity based on how they lived, nor does it have anything to do with religion.  They go to Hell because they rejected the only plan of salvation God offers them to escape it. Hell isn't where God sends anyone. Hell is the consequence of choosing to reject Jesus. Lot's of Christians are in Hell.  Lots of people participate in the Christian religion, were baptized, taught Sunday School, might have been a deacon in their local church, went to church all their lives, and still go to Hell.   Because simply believing in a religion or the "correct" religion doesn't save anyone. Participating in the external Christian community Lot's of people are "Christians" for reasons that have nothing to do with Jesus. They think they are Christians because they were baptized as an infant, because they were confirmed at age six, or because they performed sacraments or because they have simply gone to church their entire lives.  Some think that they have been good enough to go to Heaven based on living a good, upstanding life. Jesus said in John 14:6 that He is the only way to Father.  Being part of a religion, even the Christian religion isn't the way to God. Lot's of good, upstanding, religious people who went to church all their life are in hell.  Because they didn't trust in Jesus for salvation. They trusted in religion and being "good" to be enough.    Hell is full of religious people. The difference between real Christianity and other religions is that real Christianity is predicated on a person and a relationship.  Other "religions" are based on performance, on being good enough to deserve the favor of whatever deity they worship.  In religion your deity must be appeased, you must always be good enough, perform good enough to appease that deity.  In real Christianity, we can't possibly be good enough and it is because of we cannot perform well enough for God the Father that He sent Jesus to pay for our sin, to satisfy His justice on our behalf.  We live, not to appease Him (because sin has been judged and paid for) but rather, out of a gratitude for what He has done for us.  Our works are the fruit of salvation, not the means of attaining it. We don't escape hell by being good enough, but because we have been to the judgment bar and have been declared righteous on the grounds of faith in Jesus' work on the cross and we have been given eternal life.  No "religion" offers that.  Religion can't offer that.  Religion can only tell you what you did wrong. Religion can only condemn.  But real Christianity, biblical Christianity is not based on religion, but on a Person, Jesus Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Noodle Posted March 31, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 573 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/27/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted March 31, 2017 12 hours ago, JohnD said: Ladies and gentlemen the preceding nameless person (can't name names, it might hurt their ittle feewings) has come up with the best way into heaven... Don't Tell! If you don't tell anyone about Jesus then they can 't "reject" Jesus so... THEY'RE IN! WoW will theological wonders never cease! Brother? To Shiloh,  Is this the image of those indwelt with our Father's holy spirit that we want to send to anyone who may happen into this discussion? That we speak to one another in this way? Is this what this discussion about babies and Hell has led us to?  Can we all take a moment to take a breath and maybe read a passage and find peace and proceed with courtesy and love? Gathering everyone into a giant community hug.  God LOVES US! Isn't that glorious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff2 Posted March 31, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 318 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 85 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/20/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted March 31, 2017 Predestination is only applicable when it comes to God's omniscience. Â God knows who will choose Him and who will not. Â Predestination extends no further than that. I'm sure you can explain why the Bible never says that. Â Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woundeddog Posted March 31, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,370 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 1,054 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/21/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/18/1868 Author Share Posted March 31, 2017 3 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said: Just like JohnD's flawed and errant doctrine, your doctrine holds souls accountable for choices they were not able to make, because they did not live to make them. so- are you saying Babies go to hell? or their souls just wink out and cease to exist??-- if they did not make a choice to believe because they were incapable, do you not also think they did not make a choice to sin? ~~ they had no personal sin to their account- only the inherited sin of Adam which Christ's sacrifice --would have covered  3 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:    No one would believe in predestination if they were one of the poor saps that were not predestined. if they didnt believe they were saved-- they wouldn't be saved-- so your argument verifies the opposing view~~ Bible says we are predestined to be conformed to the Image of Christ-- if a person does not believe that-- their salvation may be suspect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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