Jeff2 Posted April 12, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 318 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 85 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/20/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 12, 2017 25 minutes ago, Willa said: But I am concerned. The genuineness of their faith is being tested. Does that mean that those who don't bring fruit to maturity are not genuine Christians.? I would suggest that Scripture does address this quite clearly. The one difficulty comes in when we convolute the "works of the Law" and the "fruit of a saving faith." James tells us that faith without works is dead. James 2: "Even so faith, if it hath not works is dead, being alone." A dead faith is not a saving faith. But is James speaking of the works of the Law, or works as the fruit of a genuine faith? I see no reason to believe anything but the later. Paul tells us (as is often repeated,) "For by grace are ye saved, through faith; and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." People say Amen! it is clear that works that accompany salvation does not have any merit! Yet, most people tear away at the context and never follow on with what Paul says in verse 10, "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." We are His workmanship; Christ working in and through us to good works. These things God has "ordained" that we should "walk" (actively moving in). Jesus asserts the same in John 15:4-6, "Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine: no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: For without me ye can do nothing." I would say that Scripture says that God's ordained will is that a Christian will bear fruit. In fact, Jesus says that good fruit is an inevitable result of abiding in the Vine. James summarizes this by telling us that a fruitless faith is not a saving faith. Jesus, Paul and James are essentially saying the same thing, but from differing perspectives. If someone's claim to being saved has not resulted in a change (regeneration) that results in a life of good fruit, I would be skeptical of their claims. Maturity takes time. I am not sure whether I would assert that one had to bear fruit unto maturity to be saved, but would say that fruit will always accompany salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff2 Posted April 12, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 318 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 85 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/20/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 12, 2017 13 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said: Did you declare with your mouth and believe in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead? If not you are still in your sins Still earning your way to salvation? 14 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said: 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. Even more works! Where will it end? Good luck with your own standard of Legalism! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZacharyB Posted April 12, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 410 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 175 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 12, 2017 On 4/10/2017 at 11:35 AM, Teditis said: I think that many of the verses given in the OP are grossly misinterpreted and taken out of context... You think? ... Stinkin' thinkin' won't get you anywhere! ... Spiritual Truth will though. How about taking one of the verses and show how it has been so messed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZacharyB Posted April 12, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 410 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 175 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 12, 2017 On 4/10/2017 at 4:23 PM, kwikphilly said: Thats it Bro Zach........IF.....biggest & loudest Word in the entire Bible With love-in Christ,Kwik Thanks for your support, Kwikster girl. Yes, there are many IF's in the NT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted April 12, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,242 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 16,658 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted April 12, 2017 3 minutes ago, Jeff2 said: Maturity takes time. I am not sure whether I would assert that one had to bear fruit unto maturity to be saved, but would say that fruit will always accompany salvation. Luk 8:13 AMP And those upon the rock [are the people] who, when they hear [the Word], receive and welcome it with joy; but these have no root. They believe for a while, and in time of trial and temptation fall away (withdraw and stand aloof). Luk 8:14 And as for what fell among the thorns, these are [the people] who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked and suffocated with the anxieties and cares and riches and pleasures of life, and their fruit does not ripen (come to maturity and perfection). The people I am praying for lie somewhere in here. She is angry at God for not saving her dad. So she says she doesn't believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God, she doesn't believe "Pauls opinion" and could not even say "Jesus is Lord". She could not endorse that Jesus is the way, truth & life, and no man comes to the Father but by Him. But she does believe that Jesus died for her sins. She doesn't understand God's word. She thinks all animals and even insects have spirits and plans to leave all her money to the Monarch Butterflies. May God have mercy on her and deliver her from the lies of the enemy! 55 years ago she and I were baptized at the same time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heb 13:8 Posted April 12, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 35 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,533 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 382 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/03/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 12, 2017 4 minutes ago, Jeff2 said: Still earning your way to salvation? Even more works! Where will it end? Good luck with your own standard of Legalism! How is depending on the finished work of the cross earning salvation. It's already finished. Please explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZacharyB Posted April 12, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 410 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 175 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 12, 2017 (edited) On 4/10/2017 at 7:21 PM, Danger Noodle said: Eternal salvation is the grace of God and the sacrifice for which Jesus died to insure. John 10:27-30 "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life” How you doin' with the bold u/l words? E.G. to follow Jesus is to obey His commandments. Edited April 12, 2017 by ZacharyB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Teditis Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 18 minutes ago, ZacharyB said: You think? ... Stinkin' thinkin' won't get you anywhere! ... Spiritual Truth will though. How about taking one of the verses and show how it has been so messed up. The whole OP supposes that our Salvation is conditional on works and never addresses that it is God's Grace and Mercy that draw His elect onto Himself and keeps them by His Sovereign power. We Love God because He first Loved us, see? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZacharyB Posted April 12, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 410 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 175 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 12, 2017 21 hours ago, Jeff2 said: Poor Jesus, Paul, Peter, James, John and Jude! Yes, their warnings to believers have fallen on many deaf ears! There are spiritually blind unbelievers ... and there are spiritually blind believers as well. Just that the unbelievers are more spiritually blind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZacharyB Posted April 12, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 410 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 175 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 12, 2017 (edited) 21 hours ago, Jeff2 said: The Antinomian Creed By John Fletcher Yes, we can safely and wisely disregard the old doctrines of whomever desired to write 'em! For example ... Bible scholars all have been so BIG on John 8:58 where Jesus said He existed before Abraham did. Oh, they have said for decades (centuries?), that this verse proves Jesus was/is God. Utter nonsense! … Multitudes of angels also existed before Abraham! They would have been far better off stressing John 8:24 ... where Jesus claimed to be “I AM”, the God of Exodus 3. Please note: there is no “He” after “I AM” in the original Greek in either verse. And ditto for about 6 other NT verses ... where Bible translators have inserted "He" after the "I AM'. Edited April 12, 2017 by ZacharyB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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