Should Women Be In Leadership Positions in Church?

[Wolf Bridges]

1 minute ago, Abby-Joy said:

I agree with basically everything you said, except I'm uncomfortable with using culture as a reason.  Obviously, cultures have changed... and that does play a role in a lot of things we do differently today.  I mean, the "holy kiss' thing.... and we also don't see people walking around in robes and sandals... just saying.  But getting back to this subject... none of the woman bashers have addressed why it was okay for Priscilla to aid her husband Aquilla in teaching and discipling a man in their home.  That would see to go against the thought that a woman cannot teach a man.  Also, it has not been addressed why Paul attended house churches led by women, rather than shutting them down or demanding they get a man to lead them.  This is why I believe that the scriptures ... ALL the scriptures .... need to be taken together into one whole picture.   

I think the culture issue pertains to the time being discussed and the atmosphere surrounding a Pharisee's address to his churches. Of course today's culture is different. And yet, by the read of it, there are those who are in opposition to that when it comes to women in the pulpit. Cultural progress! Except for that. 

 

[Spock]

41 minutes ago, Davida said:

I think you didn't understand what Enoob said. Enoob uses hermeneutics which applies  culture and context. The scripture's meaning is linked to the foundation of the world.

No, I understood perfectly well, but thanks anyways. 

[Kindle]

17 hours ago, Churchmouse said:

Is it appropriate to use the secular imagery of keeping women barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen to mook those who are merely backing up their understanding of Gods will.?

This place is loosing it's luster as far as a place for serious contemplation of God's design and turning into a theater for thumbing of the nose.

CM,Do you know how many debates and political discussions that have gotten so heated that members that have been here for longer than you and I have left? There's nothing wrong with some humor to lighten a discussions so everyone doesn't get personal,banned, and given warning points. If you don't like the humor just look over it. Just My Opinion.

[Spock]

1 hour ago, Abby-Joy said:

I agree, brother ..... take into account, Romans 16:16 .... I've been kissed but a man when I was at the altar praying.... it was not holy at all, and if I hadn't been caught off guard, he'd been slapped across the room.  Cultures are different now, and yet, I'm wondering why people can throw out the practice of greeting with a "holy kiss" since it is in the Bible and Paul says to do it.  I don't see anyone practicing this in any pure form today.  lol

This reminds of a funny anecdote if I may share such...

This stunning looking young woman sat next to my wife and I at church, and my wife leaned over to me and said, "I bet you won't have a problem holding her hands at the end of the service (church tradition)." (I absolutely abhor holding men's sweaty  hands not knowing what is has touched.) 

I replied back to my wife, "I also wouldn't have a problem giving her a Holy kiss either! ......what is that exactly by the way?"

My wife replied back, "I don't care if it's Holy or not, that ain't happening....." 

 

This is the day that the Lord has made, I will REJOICE and be glad in it,

spock 

Ps No offense intended here Churchmouse. 

[Wolf Bridges]

14 minutes ago, Davida said:

Again , here is a prime example of "God" according to Wolf again. So sad if someone disagrees or questions your opinions they are labeled "ill tempered". Your worldly context & rants are Not equal to the Word of God which must be our Only and Ultimate Authority. It is  essentially accusing the Creator of gender discrimination - is this because according to Genesis God did not create Eve first-so Is that discrimination? I am defending the Scripture and I'm getting back a portrait of Jesus according to oprah winfrey or Roma Downey- i.e. the worldly view.

There are tons of people -male and females preaching exactly your way way in pulpits and they are deceiving themselves and leading people away from the Word of God & into their contemporary view. All human words amount to nothing- when it contradicts the Scripture and shows no careful exegesis of Scripture has been applied. A prophet or prophetess is not the same as Pastor of a church.

 I have found there is no way to convince a person when they value their own thoughts & words over God's Scripture. All scripture is God-breathed--2Tim 3:16  "16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work.…" 

 The only way to know God is through and using the scripture.  The problem is the" god" of your imagining you end up creating will always be conveniently in agreement with your own human reasoning.  The opposite is what we are called to do -We have to be submitted to the scripture as our only ultimate Authority.

 

I believe the rules condemn personal attacks on a member. Speak to the topic not to the person affording the opinion disagreed with. 

Exegisis is a discipline well worth reiterating here when example of failure to comprehend exegesis insists on being heard. 

Edited May 19, 2017 by Wolf Bridges

[Guest Teditis]

12 minutes ago, Giller said:

1Co 16:19
(19)  The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house.

Now concerning Aquila and Priscilla, they were husband and wife, they obviously had an assembly in their house, people with gather in their house, but just because people gathered in their house does that automatically make them leaders of the church?

It would seem to me that this passage is clear that Aquila and Priscilla did indeed lead a church, yes.

[Wolf Bridges]

10 minutes ago, Giller said:

Act 18:24-26
(24)  And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.
(25)  This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.
(26)  And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.
 

Here Aquila and Priscilla were expounding the word to Apollos, it had nothing to do with a church service, or a leadership role, they saw him preaching, in the synagogue, and took him unto them or aside, and expounded the word to him.

Women can definitely show men what the word says, but they are not to take a leadership role or be the teacher of the congregation.

1Ti 2:12-13
(12)  But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
(13)  For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

Now can women show men what the scriptures say outside of a leadership role? Of course.

They can share a testimony, they can share scriptures even within the assembly, but they cannot be in a leadership role, or be the teacher of the congregation.

Tit 2:3-5
(3)  The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
(4)  That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
(5)  To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Here it is talking about the aged women, teaching the younger women, how a woman should be.

It has nothing to do with a leadership role.

And there is no evidence, of it being in an assembly setting, or in the pulpit.

So outside of a leadership role, women can show young women the way of the Lord, they can even take someone aside, which could be a man, and show him the way of the Lord more perfectly.

And of course they must teach their children the way of the Lord.

Now let us go to other scriptures.

1Co 1:11
(11)  For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
 

1Co 16:19
(19)  The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house.

Now concerning Aquila and Priscilla, they were husband and wife, they obviously had an assembly in their house, people with gather in their house, but just because people gathered in their house does that automatically make them leaders of the church?

Why people interject a leadership role in this, is beyond me, it is reading into the scriptures, rather than letting it say what it says.

Because Paul says I suffer not a woman to teach, which would contradict that scripture.

I think why a leadership role is interjected into this scripture, is because of a type of women vs men thing, rather than comparing scriptures with scriptures.

And then their are people of the house of Chloe, which shows absolutely no leadership role interjected upon Chloe, so if it does not say it, why say it?

I have had meetings at another persons house which was not the pastor, and yet it was at his house.

Just because you gather at a person's house, does not mean they are in a leadership role.

 

 

If a woman was in a subservient position in the new covenant and was to remain quiet in church, Priscilla and Aquila both would not have taken a man aside and educated him on the scriptures. But they did so as one in Christ. 

 

 

1 Corinthians 16:19 The churches of Asia send you greetings. Aquila and Prisca, together with the church in their house, send you hearty greetings in the Lord.

 

Romans 16:1 I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a servant of the church at Cenchreae,

A Servant of the Church

Phoebe was not only a member of a spiritual family, but likewise a member of the visible church at Cenchrea when Paul arrived there on his third journey and from where he wrote Romans. Phoebe was not merely a confessing and active believer, she was also “a ministrant of the Church.”  (more @ source)

 

 

Acts 2:17-18 “‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams; even on my male servants and female servants in those days I will pour out my Spirit, and they shall prophesy.

Acts 21:9 He had four unmarried daughters, who prophesied.....

[Wolf Bridges]

7 minutes ago, Teditis said:

It would seem to me that this passage is clear that Aquila and Priscilla did indeed lead a church, yes.

And being married they are united as one. And as Christ tells us, there is no Greek, nor Jew, nor Gentile, nor male nor female. We are all one in Christ Jesus. 

 

[Guest Teditis]

7 minutes ago, Giller said:

Absolutely nothing clear there.

See, I guess that why we get differing interpretation of Scripture... two people read the same thing

and state that they trust that the Holy Spirit is guiding them in their study, but still come away with

two differing opinions.

The was in their house and nothing was said about anyone else being in charge of it... in fact that it

is Priscilla and Aquila that are doing the "saluting" for that church makes it seem that it's their place

as leaders to do that sorta thing. Oh well.. God Bless.

[Wolf Bridges]

2 minutes ago, Giller said:

Women can expound the word as good as men, no problem there, but they should not be in a leadership position, not because I am against women, because God says so.

But I know those scriptures are not accepted by many.

In a web setting, or in fellowship, nothing wrong with men and women discussing scripture with each other, but man how easily offended some women get on this issue, it is like their way or the high way.

I have nothing against women, if I saw a clear scripture that permitted women in leadership , I would say fine, but God does not permit it.

Where does God say so? 
Book, chapter and verse please. 

Not the Pauline letters mind you. That's why the new testament is divided into sections to differentiate what is the gospel and what is the pastoral epistles that Paul wrote to his church. Not to us whom he had no command over as he well knew. They were letters to his churches. That's why he addressed them as such. 

And please reconcile how Paul said there is no male or female we are all one in Christ Jesus, when you then claim we are segregated by gender which then divides us from being one due to gender. 

Romans 2:11 For God shows no partiality.

 

What scripture in the new testament has God saying what you claim there?  After it was realized about God and by Peter, Then Peter began to speak: "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism. Acts 10:34

 

 

Commentary Matthew Henry Commentary

10:34-43 Acceptance cannot be obtained on any other ground than that of the covenant of mercy, through the atonement of Christ; but wherever true religion is found, God will accept it without regarding names or sects. The fear of God and works of righteousness are the substance of true religion, the effects of special grace. Though these are not the cause of a man's acceptance, yet they show it; and whatever may be wanting in knowledge or faith, will in due time be given by Him who has begun it. They knew in general the word, that is, the gospel, which God sent to the children of Israel. The purport of this word was, that God by it published the good tidings of peace by Jesus Christ. They knew the several matters of fact relating to the gospel. They knew the baptism of repentance which John preached. Let them know that this Jesus Christ, by whom peace is made between God and man, is Lord of all; not only as over all, God blessed for evermore, but as Mediator. All power, both in heaven and in earth, is put into his hand, and all judgment committed to him. God will go with those whom he anoints; he will be with those to whom he has given his Spirit. Peter then declares Christ's resurrection from the dead, and the proofs of it. Faith has reference to a testimony, and the Christian faith is built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, on the testimony given by them. See what must be believed concerning him. That we are all accountable to Christ as our Judge; so every one must seek his favour, and to have him as our Friend. And if we believe in him, we shall all be justified by him as our Righteousness. The remission of sins lays a foundation for all other favours and blessings, by taking that out of the way which hinders the bestowing of them. If sin be pardoned, all is well, and shall end well for ever