The flesh is evil and corrupt

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

The above is for context. I didn't want to derail the thread so I asked Matrix is we could discuss that statement in a new thread. 

The part of her comment I want to focus on is 

"The flesh is evil and corrupt"

so I'll turn the floor over to her to explain what that means. 

[Fidei Defensor]

I became curious too. Does your quote mean the flesh is evil and corrupt, as in regards to sin nature in mankind that Jesus died to cover with His blood and Sacrifice (Hebrews 10) or does the quote mean all flesh, physical and seen matter is evil, that is Nestorianism (Nestorian Christianity) which sadly got its name from St. Nestorius who didn't actually mean those words in that context, but Nestorians believe all physical is evil, even your body and car, but all unseen spiritual is good. It has Zoroastrian touch of doctrine, because they believe similarly, even letting their bodies be eastern by vultures because the body is worthless. Nestorians believe there are two christs, one is physical and flesh, the other spiritual and unseen. One is good nad one is bad. So they deny what the Apostle John and Paul says Christians must believe "I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist," (2 John 1:7), "By this you will know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God," (1 John 4:2), "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth," (John 1:14), "For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body/For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily," (Colossians 2:9), "For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell," (Colossians 1:19) and "while we wait for the blessed hope--the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ." (Titus 2:13). Nestorianism is a strange vintage of Christianity that was crushed at The Council of Nicaea.

 

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

2 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Nestorianism is a strange vintage of Christianity that was crushed at The Council of Nicaea.

Yeah this is what I was wondering. I roll my eyes to myself when I hear about how the Church persecuted Christians during the reformation. When asked for examples the Albegensions are generally the ones brought up who would never be considered Christians. They held to this belief that the flesh was evil and the spirit was good. Ironically enough they were persecuted by Protestants and Catholics. Heresy was a capital offense, it was viewed as murdering the soul and carried the same sentence as murdering the physical form carried. 

I look forward to her reply. 

[missmuffet]

Question: "What are the works of the flesh?"

Answer: Galatians 5:19–21 speaks of the works of the flesh, saying they are "evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these."

Paul then warns “that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.” The works of the flesh are the things human beings naturally tend toward that are contrary to God’s design for us (Romans 1:28–29). Those who pursue lifestyles characterized by immorality, anger, divisiveness, drunkenness, etc., are giving evidence that they are not saved (see Matthew 7:20).

When the Bible speaks of the “flesh,” it is often referring to our natural sin tendencies. We are all born with a sin nature (Romans 5:12). Our natural predilection is to please ourselves any way we see fit. We can be trained to behave in more socially acceptable ways and even find enjoyment in being kind to others. However, without the power of God, we remain self-centered. We do what we do, even good things, because we receive some selfish payoff. Anything not done from faith or love for God—any deed not empowered by the Holy Spirit—is a “work of the flesh” (Romans 8:8; 14:23).

At salvation, the Holy Spirit moves into the repentant heart, making it possible for us to make choices that are of the Spirit, rather than the flesh (Galatians 5:16; Ezekiel 36:27; Romans 8:4; Colossians 3:5–8). We are to consider ourselves “crucified with Christ” (Galatians 2:20) and our old sin nature dead (Romans 6:2, 11), but the flesh does not die easily. A battle still rages within even the most dedicated follower of Christ. The apostle Paul wrote eloquently of this battle in Romans 7. Verses 21–23 say, “So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me.”

Works of the flesh are not always as obvious as the ones listed above. They can even be found within Christian ministry, as people try to gain popularity or self-worth under the guise of serving Christ. Diotrephes was rebuked for this in 3 John 1:9. Trying to please God from selfish motivation leads to unhealthy competition, slander, bitterness, and eventual burnout (Galatians 1:10).

The works of the flesh are in total contrast with the fruit of the Spirit, detailed in Galatians 5:22–23. What pleases the Lord in our lives is not a “work” but a “fruit” that the Spirit alone can produce. We can avoid works of the flesh by staying continually submitted to the Holy Spirit and allowing Him to direct every aspect of our lives (Ephesians 5:18; Galatians 5:25).

https://www.gotquestions.org/works-of-the-flesh.html

[Fidei Defensor]

4 minutes ago, Judas Machabeus said:

Yeah this is what I was wondering. I roll my eyes to myself when I hear about how the Church persecuted Christians during the reformation. When asked for examples the Albegensions are generally the ones brought up who would never be considered Christians. They held to this belief that the flesh was evil and the spirit was good. Ironically enough they were persecuted by Protestants and Catholics. Heresy was a capital offense, it was viewed as murdering the soul and carried the same sentence as murdering the physical form carried. 

I look forward to her reply. 

That is why I think spirit of Ecumenism is important. Fear of heresy leads to terrible outcomes, on both sides.

Nestorians and their later iterations are disturbing, they can be countered by Jesus' words, "My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one." (John 17:15)
 

[TheMatrixHasU71]

7 hours ago, missmuffet said:

Question: "What are the works of the flesh?"

Answer: Galatians 5:19–21 speaks of the works of the flesh, saying they are "evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these."

Paul then warns “that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.” The works of the flesh are the things human beings naturally tend toward that are contrary to God’s design for us (Romans 1:28–29). Those who pursue lifestyles characterized by immorality, anger, divisiveness, drunkenness, etc., are giving evidence that they are not saved (see Matthew 7:20).

When the Bible speaks of the “flesh,” it is often referring to our natural sin tendencies. We are all born with a sin nature (Romans 5:12). Our natural predilection is to please ourselves any way we see fit. We can be trained to behave in more socially acceptable ways and even find enjoyment in being kind to others. However, without the power of God, we remain self-centered. We do what we do, even good things, because we receive some selfish payoff. Anything not done from faith or love for God—any deed not empowered by the Holy Spirit—is a “work of the flesh” (Romans 8:8; 14:23).

At salvation, the Holy Spirit moves into the repentant heart, making it possible for us to make choices that are of the Spirit, rather than the flesh (Galatians 5:16; Ezekiel 36:27; Romans 8:4; Colossians 3:5–8). We are to consider ourselves “crucified with Christ” (Galatians 2:20) and our old sin nature dead (Romans 6:2, 11), but the flesh does not die easily. A battle still rages within even the most dedicated follower of Christ. The apostle Paul wrote eloquently of this battle in Romans 7. Verses 21–23 say, “So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me.”

Works of the flesh are not always as obvious as the ones listed above. They can even be found within Christian ministry, as people try to gain popularity or self-worth under the guise of serving Christ. Diotrephes was rebuked for this in 3 John 1:9. Trying to please God from selfish motivation leads to unhealthy competition, slander, bitterness, and eventual burnout (Galatians 1:10).

The works of the flesh are in total contrast with the fruit of the Spirit, detailed in Galatians 5:22–23. What pleases the Lord in our lives is not a “work” but a “fruit” that the Spirit alone can produce. We can avoid works of the flesh by staying continually submitted to the Holy Spirit and allowing Him to direct every aspect of our lives (Ephesians 5:18; Galatians 5:25).

https://www.gotquestions.org/works-of-the-flesh.html

Genesis 6:12 

And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

Job 34:15

All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.

Isaiah 40:6

The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field

 

1 Peter 1:24 

For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:

 

The Scripture is plenty clear here. In connection with JMs mention of the supposedly "incorruptible" Catholics saints, God doesnt preserve the flesh of the dead. May be a bit of a change of subject here from the apparent purpose of this thread but it was still worth bringing up.

[TheMatrixHasU71]

10 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

I became curious too. Does your quote mean the flesh is evil and corrupt, as in regards to sin nature in mankind that Jesus died to cover with His blood and Sacrifice (Hebrews 10)

Yes. 

[Wolf Bridges]

That's a Calvinist instruction isn't it? The Total Depravity part of his five points outlined and defined in the acronym of TULIP? 

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

11 hours ago, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

The Scripture is plenty clear here. In connection with JMs mention of the supposedly "incorruptible" Catholics saints, God doesnt preserve the flesh of the dead. May be a bit of a change of subject here from the apparent purpose of this thread but it was still worth bringing up.

So it's mans fallen nature (the flesh) that's evil? 

Or just the physical flesh is evil and the nature can be saved and made Holy? 

 

[TheMatrixHasU71]

On ‎5‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 9:17 PM, Judas Machabeus said:

So it's mans fallen nature (the flesh) that's evil? 

Or just the physical flesh is evil and the nature can be saved and made Holy? 

 

The first one. Remember too though that even when we are saved sin still is in us. The physical flesh is evil too but in the sense that it falls into corruption. All physical flesh does, without exception. That is all part of what is called "natural evil".